Do you think Raph will get a love interest?

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Kinda like that argument where Future Raph is telling his present day self to lighten up. And present day Raph says "There isn't anything to lighten up about...There are only four mutant turtles and all of them are male. That means no children, it ends with us."

Aw, that's just kinda sad. See now, maybe that's half his deal right there... no legacy to leave behind other than trying to fix a city the humans are just going to mess up again anyhow once you're gone.

Seriously Turtles, cloning is real now... just raise some genetic clones. lol

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Plus the Turtles can live a very long time, That Story from the comics took place 100 years in the future.

This why I favored Archie Raph. He had a legit reason for his negativity and cynicism. Raph even mentioned how they'd outlive their mammal friends. I guess he thinks about those things more than his brothers.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Plus the Turtles can live a very long time, That Story from the comics took place 100 years in the future.

Which would be a stab against the Don O'Neil paring considering that Donnie would potentially out live April by several decades. But who knows since she's part Kraang she may live longer then most humans. Aging process slows down when she reaches 20 or something like that.

I know the age thing hasn't been brought up...yet. But Raph seems largely against Donnie being interested in April isn't because he's following April around like a love sick puppy, but rather because all he sees is Donnie getting a broken heart out of it.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, that and the fact that he knows it wouldn't work out because of the species difference and how Don couldn't give April certain things. He's just more realistic about things than others.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Well, that and the fact that he knows it wouldn't work out because of the species difference and how Don couldn't give April certain things. He's just more realistic about things than others.

Everyone seems to support the pairing in different ways.

Mikey is the most supportive. He really does want Donnie to be happy and he also would like to believe Donnie and April do have a chance a being together. Particularly since April is a mutant to. And if anything Mikey would know his brother is genuine in what he truely feels for April.

For example look at the music box discussion.

Donnie asks if the music box is a bit much, but refuses to hear anything beyond perfection. Mikey decideds to let Donnie hear what he wanted to hear and really feels bad when April doesn't really appricate the gift.

If it had been Leo if he had asked "Do you want my opinion?" and recieved "Only if it's perfect" he would have walked away saying "Then you don't want my opinion"

Other wise he may have suggested changes that would make it more welcoming. Because it's a sweet gift and Donnie had clearly spent quite a bit of time on it. But it was the photo of himself that was the big throw off.

Raph on the other hand world have just walked away without saying anything or he would have bluntly said. "April is never going to see you as more then a friend genius. When are you going to accept that?!"


Leo it's more of a tollerant allowance of it. I mean he's supportive of it because April is someone who makes Donnie happy, and he feels he doesn't have any right to take that away from him. But yet he has also expressed that Donnie and April have little chance in being together. And the only reason he hasn't told Donnie that directly is because Donnie would try to prove him wrong. And two he's hoping Donnie would grow up and smell the cooties before things get out of hand, or April directly tells him herself that she likes him as a friend only. But still acknowledges April is someone that matters to his brother and by extent the rest of the family.

Raph yes doesn't want to see Donnie get hurt by all this. And as you have also pointed out, Donnie can't provide a decent home for April or have children with her or any sense of normalcy. So Raph just want to save alot of heartache from happening before it starts.

As he states in "A Foot too Big" April is a girl. He doesn't say human girl thought that is the interpritation by some. He just says spacificly "April is a girl and you are a giant talking turtle. It's not going to happen."

Raph has also stated in "Within the woods" "We're mutant turtles, we don't belong in farm houses we belong in the sewer." to which Donnie responds by saying "Not entirely accurate, but apropos" Indicating that Raph hasn't adjusted to life on the farm and feels the only place he would ever feel he belonged was the sewer. Where as Donnie is more or less saying "I don't feel I belong in a sewer, but I see where your coming from."

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

And the only reason he hasn't told Donnie that directly is because Donnie would try to prove him wrong.

Well, additionally I think Leo is also wise enough to know it's the sort of thing Donnie has to learn/find out for himself.

If it's doomed to not happen it's going to hurt either way and no use in his siblings causing that pain prematurely when ultimately the conclusion, for better or worse, has to happen between he and April, nobody else.

Likewise, only Leo can sort out his feelings over Karai, past and present. No doubt he knows how he'd feel if his brothers tried to tell him how to feel/think.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, additionally I think Leo is also wise enough to know it's the sort of thing Donnie has to learn/find out for himself.

If it's doomed to not happen it's going to hurt either way and no use in his siblings causing that pain prematurely when ultimately the conclusion, for better or worse, has to happen between he and April, nobody else.

Likewise, only Leo can sort out his feelings over Karai, past and present. No doubt he knows how he'd feel if his brothers tried to tell him how to feel/think.

I am really curious to know if Leo still have feelings for Karai. Snakes have tendency to strike without thinking especially when they're hungry.

I think for Karai, she would probably have to stay away from until she had something to eat to avoid going into predator mode, which from a writing standpoint keeps her being a main character but stills makes it possible her being a recurring character.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, additionally I think Leo is also wise enough to know it's the sort of thing Donnie has to learn/find out for himself.

If it's doomed to not happen it's going to hurt either way and no use in his siblings causing that pain prematurely when ultimately the conclusion, for better or worse, has to happen between he and April, nobody else.

Likewise, only Leo can sort out his feelings over Karai, past and present. No doubt he knows how he'd feel if his brothers tried to tell him how to feel/think.

Which is why Donnie despite having his doubts and reservations about Karai...with good reason. He is still willing to go along with Leo or hearout Leo's point of view on the situation. But would he would subtly hint his doubts too.

Such as Wrath of Tiger Claw.

When Karai tells Leo and April that she believes they are telling the truth when Leo says Splinter is her father. And April responds by saying "I believe she believes you." (I.E. I believe what she is saying.)

However Donnie says: I believe April. As sort of a vailed hint that Apirl is the only one telling the truth.

Kunoichi are trained to use deception as a weapon, of which Karai is firmly more practiced then April. But if he directly accused her of lying or pointed out that he wasn't going to rely on Karai's word that she's telling the truth he would come across as a insensitive jerk.

And when Leo says he's taking Karai to the lair we still see Donnie visably balk about that, and comments that Raph was not going to like this. He still tries to take Leo's side and convince Raph that Karai has changed.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Aw, that's just kinda sad. See now, maybe that's half his deal right there... no legacy to leave behind other than trying to fix a city the humans are just going to mess up again anyhow once you're gone.

Not necessarily, you don't need to have bio children to leave a legacy. They can teach, be a mentor, be there for someone when they need it, etc. That is far more important and affects the here and now rather then giving any potential offspring a 'job' before they're even born.

Plus, it might even be cruel forcing something into existence that is going to have just as difficult a life as the parents, always looking at a life it can't have and then being burdened with it's own guilt of continuing on the 'legacy' it was tasked with before it was even born.

Not having children isn't a tragedy, it's an opportunity to grow beyond the little box one was always taught was the only important thing in life to achieve, and see what other things lie beyond.

[IndigoErth]

Yes, all good points. Not that any offspring of any sort necessarily has to do the same thing with their lives. In deeper aspects of simply existing in this world though, that would have to be a little depressing to face the fact that after you're gone, people like you are extinct. Couldn't blame them if they had any wish that their family, biologically speaking, wouldn't end with them...

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Yes, all good points. Not that any offspring of any sort necessarily has to do the same thing with their lives. In deeper aspects of simply existing in this world though, that would have to be a little depressing to face the fact that after you're gone, people like you are extinct. Couldn't blame them if they had any wish that their family, biologically speaking, wouldn't end with them...

I agree. Though there is always the hope that life could get better for them. I mean, yeah they know they are less then likely to be accepted with open arms by humans in general because of what they are.

But remember in Fast Forward it kinda sorta hinted that Donnie pull a Donatello and created a second renaissance through his friendship with April and Casey and his involvement as a founder off O'Neil Tech.

Thus building a world where aliens, mutants, and humans can learn live togeather as equils. So I think the idea of the Turtles having children is not subjecting them to a life as ninja.

Splinter trained them to be ninja partially for selfish reasons (I.E. to be his army of death) but he also trained them as ninjas because that is the knowledge he had to pass on to them and also as a means in which to defend themselves in a world that may never understand them or welcome them.

And in a way the Turtles were given a choice, they could use their skills to defend the city or let the city fend for itself since they didn't owe anything to the people of New York. And they chose to use their skills to defend the city and by extent the world because there was no one else who could.
Regardless of whether the citizens were greatful or acknowledged all the Turtles did for them.

So yes if the Turtles were able to have children, the children would be trained to be ninja because that would also be the knowledge they have to pass on and they can do this by adopting human kids or training students and having these kids decide on their own what they felt their skills should be used.

And yes there would be some students who bite them in the shell. Such as Donnie with the Pulverizer and thats it's own can of worms.

But in the Mirage there is a moment where Renet tells Raph his future and he tells Raph that if he trains Shadow in Ninjitus some terrable thing is going to happen because of it. But if he doesn't she's going to be assassinated in her mid-twenties.

And heck Raph loses his eye during and argument with her.

Another reason the Turtles could want to have off Spring is just because humans would never accept them in their life time doesn't mean their children don't have the potential to create a world that could learn to accept them as people.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Another reason the Turtles could want to have off Spring is just because humans would never accept them in their life time doesn't mean their children don't have the potential to create a world that could learn to accept them as people.

True that could happen, but very likely it might not either at the same time. Would they really want to risk that chance?


What I'm arguing against isn't that they have children, it's that based on a notion on how that person themselves want, and not really any thought for what the child will go through. Often the default thought is that a person will have children or ought to, not offering much alternative of them possibly not wanting to or even allowing the possibility of whether they should.

This places a lot of pressure on people and makes them think they will only be happy or matter if they have children, often overlooking the significant meaning they have to other people, especially existing relatives and friends. To those friends and family, their lives already matter. Splinter is not their bio dad, but he is a father to them irregardless of genetic relatedness. He matters to them, and they to him, no bloodline needed. If the Turtles wanted children, they could very easily take in any abandoned children or dumpster tossed newborn babies, doing far more good for that child then any mutant child conceived for a 'legacy.' That child would consider them family, and they could be considered uncles or fathers and be well loved.


That's why I say they don't need bio children to be happy or to pass down a legacy or to matter to people. It's a poisonous notion that often passed around and tends to be the source or so much unhappiness, creating children to 'be' something or to 'do' something, without thinking of them as people and having their own thoughts and wants. What if they don't want to be what the parent wants? What if they turn to crime? What if they can't have or don't want children? Heck, what if the mutant bio child develops a mental illness or severe illness? Could they get it help in the current 'unfriendly' human society? It's a heavy risk, especially with the way the mutagen scrambles DNA like an egg in a pan. Children and their personalities are a crapshoot.



I see this stuff a lot in real life, which is why I am arguing so vigorously against it. I don't say that people shouldn't ever have children, but they must think first of the child and what it will go through, over some dreamy idea of a child that they really hold for themselves.

[IndigoErth]

Since it seems to have started against what I'd said, as a reminder I was simply stating sentiment in response to a supposed character quote:

And present day Raph says "There isn't anything to lighten up about...There are only four mutant turtles and all of them are male. That means no children, it ends with us."

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I see this stuff a lot in real life, which is why I am arguing so vigorously against it. I don't say that people shouldn't ever have children, but they must think first of the child and what it will go through, over some dreamy idea of a child that they really hold for themselves.

And I wouldn't assume someone automatically has dreamy, unrealistic notions. If the argument is against what I had said... No, I do not have children, I do not know if I will have any and right now I'm unsure if I'd want to for various reasons. I am also pro-choice because there are sometimes worse things than not existing.

I'm not much of the maternal sort anyhow, if I don't have any I can deal with it, but that doesn't mean there still isn't some twinge of sad regret in the thought that my twig on the family tree ends there.

But the realities of real life choices is a bit different than simply feeling sentiment for fictional talking Turtle people and what they may or may not be written to wish to have in/do with their lives outside playing security for NYC.

And certainly different and a bit too far into the future in a thread wondering if this Raph will have a love interest in the first place. And will never be old enough in this series for all those bigger life decisions anyhow.

[Metalwolf]

Sorry if I came off a bit strong, some of it was a bit of a reaction from having had people push the 'Children are the most important thing in life' stuff pushed on me before. I always get nervous whenever the subject of a character having children is brought up, as sometimes in the way arguments go it often is made into a reinforcement of why a person's life is meaningless without children.

My apologies

[IndigoErth]

Nah, I understand. There are people (ok it's my younger sister and brother-in-law) I have mentally begged to not go for it until their lives are at a place/point in which it makes sense to. (So far so good, knock on wood... Nothing meant against them, but there's certainly still important things they need to get situated first.) Bugs me when some want a kid with little forethought, just want it like they might want a puppy.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Nah, I understand. There are people (ok it's my younger sister and brother-in-law) I have mentally begged to not go for it until their lives are at a place/point in which it makes sense to. (So far so good, knock on wood... Nothing meant against them, but there's certainly still important things they need to get situated first.) Bugs me when some want a kid with little forethought, just want it like they might want a puppy.

Definitely. they might even think about if they do decide to have kids, if they are doing it for all of the right reasons, or if it's just because they think it's what everybody does. Celebs seem to be the worst when it comes to being flippant when it comes to having kids, they dress them up like little dolls and give them stupid names, because it's all showing it off to reflect on the 'parent' then it really is about the kid.

I always liked it when any characters don't end up with kids or decide not to have them, since it forces the writers to think outside the box when it comes to story telling, and don't get stuck in the rut that seems to occur once a baby is brought into the mix. I'm glad that doesn't seem to happen in TMNT, so the writers focus on brotherhood and ninja stuff instead.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Which would be a stab against the Don O'Neil paring considering that Donnie would potentially out live April by several decades.

Women are known to live longer than men, so I'd say she'll go up to 80-90. Plus she's not entirely human, she's a mutant-kraang breed so notch it up some more and she'll go 100+ like Donnie.

Problem solved. Apritello prevails.

[Mugic]

Seems most people here doesn't want it to happen, but knowing Nick they probably do it anyway.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Mugic

Seems most people here doesn't want it to happen, but knowing Nick they probably do it anyway.

I'm all for it, The Comics did it very well.

In the Series, Donnie is all girl crazy with April, If they introduce a female mutant, I dont think the mutant is gonna be all boy crazy and fall for Raph, It should be subtle.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I'm all for it, The Comics did it very well.

In the Series, Donnie is all girl crazy with April, If they introduce a female mutant, I dont think the mutant is gonna be all boy crazy and fall for Raph, It should be subtle.

I am not sure if the writers know what being subtle looks like.