So why isn't anything being done to stop police from killing people?

[CyberCubed]

More and more you hear news stories about police in the U.S. shooting and killing people for no real reason. For something as simple as running a red light, not turning around and paying attention to the officer, etc.

Its really odd. Police are shooting and killing people and then getting away with it with no criminal charges. What can be done?

[Powder]

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

More and more you hear news stories about police in the U.S. shooting and killing people for no real reason. For something as simple as running a red light, not turning around and paying attention to the officer, etc.

Its really odd. Police are shooting and killing people and then getting away with it with no criminal charges. What can be done?

Have you seen the video at all??? It is very clear that you have not even remotely seen the video or read a credible news article about the situation.Have you even consider the perspective of the law enforcement officers?????

Before I go any further I want to make clear that I do not support the actions of the officers bc I don't have all the facts and will wait to hear and see all the facts before judging.

Also speaking from a law enforcement perspective (State Police Cadet) hear me out.
The man refused to comply to the police officer causing the situation to be escalated. When words failed the officers tried to use a stun gun. But the Stun Gun either failed or the man was on drugs, bc the Stun Gun had little to no affect.
The officers force him to the ground and while still fighting to subdue the man a gun was either pulled out or fell out of the mans pocket. The cops then clearly said do not reach/touch the gun.
The police officers acted completely appropriate up to this point, after this it gets grey bc it is impossible to see if the man reached for the gun. If he did then the shooting was justified, if he did not reach for the gun then the shooting was not justified.
I spent 20 minutes looking at and reviewing the video, but the cops had only a second to determine if he was reaching for a gun, literally a life or death decision.

[Etsyturtle2]

Why don't you ask the victims themselves, because they surely aren't doing anything to prevent it.

[Candy Kappa]

It's an absolute disgrace that racist murderers are allowed a free-pass by carrying a badge. Playing judge, jury and executioner with no repercussions, but that's American Law Enforcement in a nutshell.

And of course another back person was shot by a cop, this time pulled over by a busted light, informing the officer that he had a gun with a carry permit the cop shoots him multiple times.
http://gawker.com/report-minnesota-m...-li-1783264934

[Commenter 42]

The video is clear. It was an execution. Again.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

The officers force him to the ground and while still fighting to subdue the man a gun was either pulled out or fell out of the mans pocket. The cops then clearly said do not reach/touch the gun.
The police officers acted completely appropriate up to this point, after this it gets grey bc it is impossible to see if the man reached for the gun. If he did then the shooting was justified, if he did not reach for the gun then the shooting was not justified.

Eyewitness accounts don't jive with that. I'll go with witnesses' story before I'll go with the "official police report."

[Utrommaniac]

Two people pinning a person down and shooting them five times is not justifiable, nor appropriate.

[Commenter 42]

@tothenines put this up

Tell me you don't feel this. Yesterday.

[plastroncafe]

Can't recommend HIGHLY enough:
This American Life - 548: Cops See It Differently, Part Two

In particular Act 3:

FBI Director James Comey gave a speech this week calling for law enforcement to redouble its efforts to serve the black community, and calling for a conversation about race in policing. Producer Robyn Semien has noticed that local big city police chiefs do not think race is a factor in the newsmaking incidents where white officers kill unarmed black men. She and Sean Cole visit a police department that's doing a good job fixing the problem of cops killing black men: the Las Vegas PD. (21 minutes)

You can read a transcript here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...548/transcript

In particular:

Robyn Semien
Psychologist Josh Correll did some of the key research the FBI director was talking about. Josh studies implicit racial biases, basically feelings that we all have about race that we may or may not be aware of. He's tested hundreds of cops. He flashes pictures of white and black men up on a computer screen. Some are holding weapons, and some are holding a wallet or a can of Coke.

And you have to decide instantaneously, shoot or don't shoot. And Josh sees evidence, by how fast you do it and how many mistakes you make, of what your underlying assumptions are about black and white people-- your implicit biases.

Josh Correll
For most of us, we would say things like, oh, you know, I like black people. I like black men. I don't have anything against them. I don't have any negativity toward them. That's an explicit report of an attitude.

But it goes through an editing process. When I flash a picture up on a screen and ask you to respond in 630 milliseconds, you don't have time to edit. It's like everybody has this gut response that is, oh, black means threat.

Robyn Semien
By everybody he means everybody-- black and white, including police. Josh's findings show that police officers are more likely to see the images of black men as threatening, even though police officers usually make the correct decision to shoot or not shoot. In fact, the rest of us-- untrained people like you and me-- do far worse than cops. We're more likely to shoot a black man with a wallet, and we're less likely to shoot a white man with a gun.

But not all cops outperform us. Josh has also given his video game test to police who work on gang units. What he's found is that the nature of policing gangs, which often means rounding up and arresting groups of young black men, does something to those officers and their decisions to shoot.

Josh Correll
When we test them, they are worse than other police. So we see bias in their response times, and we see bias in the mistakes that they make. So unlike regular cops, those special unit cops seem to be more likely to shoot an unarmed black target than an unarmed white target.

Robyn Semien
Josh says that gang units, unlike regular police, are like us. They do badly on these tests, even with all their training.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

It's an absolute disgrace that racist murderers are allowed a free-pass by carrying a badge. Playing judge, jury and executioner with no repercussions, but that's American Law Enforcement in a nutshell.

And of course another back person was shot by a cop, this time pulled over by a busted light, informing the officer that he had a gun with a carry permit the cop shoots him multiple times.
http://gawker.com/report-minnesota-m...-li-1783264934

Now this!!!!! Is a bad shooting!!!!! The cop should be arrested!!!!!!! What went wrong here in the video is the fact that the Officer escalated the situation himself for no reason. There was literally no reason for firing that gun.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Eyewitness accounts don't jive with that. I'll go with witnesses' story before I'll go with the "official police report."

Eye witness testimony is the most unreliable evidence there is, thats why it is not used or relied upon nearly as much in court. All of my comments are based on what I saw in the video. If a eyewitness says something else they are either mistaken or lying. Please watch the video yourself.

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Two people pinning a person down and shooting them five times is not justifiable, nor appropriate.

Look at the size different between Mr. Sterling and the officers he was not fully subdued and also HE HAD A GUN!!!!!!!! HE HAD A GUN AND IT WAS IN REACH!!!!!! Mr.Sterling was on his back, his right arm was clearly FREE still. He had gotten a hold of that gun he could have easily killed one of the officers...
As others have said before the Sterling shooting could have easily been avoided if he Did not Fight the Police and simply cooperated.

People don't understand the split second decisions officers have to make that could either let them live or die!!!.

And anyone who says this is a RACE or BLACK ISSUE please read the FBI statistics before making that comment again. There are almost twice as many WHITE people killed by police than there are BLACK people.
Many people are claiming that this is a race issue, BUT ITS NOT!!!!! Its an issue with multiple fronts, The Minnesota shooting was clearly a officer who was not properly trained. I must also be clear there has been a issue with race with law enforcement in the past and there still is, but I do not believe race played role in the Sterling shooting.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Can't recommend HIGHLY enough:
This American Life - 548: Cops See It Differently, Part Two

In particular Act 3:


You can read a transcript here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...548/transcript

In particular:

This is a interesting article and proves we still have problems with prejudices.

[plastroncafe]

People do understand that the police put their lives on the line by stepping into a potentially dangerous situation, much the same way firefighters do.

I do, however, find it interesting that you support the article I posted, even though it contradicts something you yourself wrote earlier.

That the second cop was not properly trained.
My article says that current training isn't enough to overcome prejudice on the part of the police officers.

SO that guy? Was properly trained, and he still killed someone.

I'm looking for the FBI statistics you mentioned, if you've got a link I'd appreciate that.
I did find this though:
The Counted
People killed by police in the US - The Guardian

[IndigoErth]

This country needs to stop being so gun obsessed. Period. I'm not saying "Wahh take away all the guns/wahh they want to take our guns," but christ people.

I mean, yeah, even if you are certified to carry, people shouldn't be stupid about it and be well aware that simply having it could be an issue in some situations. YOU may know that you are completely harmless in most cases, but a stranger, including a cop, does not know that. Sure, they shouldn't assume you may be trouble because of it, but unfortunately we no longer live in times where everyone is using muskets and old time rifles that can't be fired off so quickly and leave a little space for rational thought. We've become a shoot first ask questions later kind of culture... 'get them before they get us.' Because understandably no one wants to be the victim, but it's too easy to act too rash

I don't condone the overly rash actions by the police that have been involved in these terrible incidences, and certainly not in cases where there is actual prejudice involved, but the cops still have every right to fear for their own lives just as much as any civilian. If you interact with a cop and you're armed, then yeah, that's probably going to increase the amount of which that cop is on edge as well, they're still only human after all... and if the damn cop draws a gun, now the civilian is on edge as well... two armed people, capable of putting each other on edge and worry for their own safety, can't ever be a good situation.

If so many feel they must be armed for protection... why aren't we using rubber bullets more? Supposedly those may not be entirely kill-free(?), but they'd at least hopefully kill less often while getting the same desired result of fending off an assailant in most cases.

Why aren't cops using more rubber bullets? In areas that are riskier, why aren't they specifically working in pairs, only one with a live gun while the other is armed with a gun that ONLY fires blanks (separate so there is no mix up) and simply used to startle and subdue some people that are a struggle to arrest.

What kind of training are our police getting? Is there no mock training that tests a person's reaction time and fast judgement making in life or death situations?


I dunno... it's so terrible and generalizing on either side is never gong to help matters. It's never going to change until people all around are willing to change. We can't keep just making assumptions and judgements just based on race or social class and generalizing people from a certain background as all bad. But on that exact same note, we can't generalize all police as bad, racist, and keep allowing a culture that pushes the idea that the police are your enemy... that is wrongly then raising young people to hate and fear police, react combative if they have a run-in with them because they fear the police and then what... that puts the cops on edge themselves and creates a bad situation. Fault is in all hands.

[Candy Kappa]

If you are certified to carry a gun, you are certified to carry a gun. Minnesota have Concealed Carry Permits, and he rightfully informed the officer that he had so before reaching for his ID which the cop requested for.

And even if his carry permit was expired or a lie, it's not been mentioned that he brandished said gun, only informed the officer that he had one. But as we've seen time and time again, 2nd amendment is for white people only.

like this instance where a elderly black man is assaulted (by civilians) for carrying a gun in a state that have concealed carry permit.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/1...-legal-firearm

When you live in a country that loves guns more then the lives and safety of children, you have to be aware of local state laws about guns, especially the carry permits.

[snake]

There's good cops and bad cops. Stop dressing and acting like a hoodlum if you don't want to get shot. This stuff only happens in ghetto areas and most of the time the victims provoke the officers.

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Eyewitness accounts don't jive with that. I'll go with witnesses' story before I'll go with the "official police report."

Because eyewitnesses tell the truth 100% of the time. There have been plenty of cases where they record the "evidence" but it's only what THEY want you to see, such as the aftermath of an altercation with police and not what lead up to it.

Originally Posted by snake

There's good cops and bad cops. Stop dressing and acting like a hoodlum if you don't want to get shot. This stuff only happens in ghetto areas and most of the time the victims provoke the officers.

Away with your logic i say!

[Candy Kappa]

So, what's the dress code for hoodlums?

[plastroncafe]

Short skirts and too much makeup.
Oh no wait, that's rape.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

People do understand that the police put their lives on the line by stepping into a potentially dangerous situation, much the same way firefighters do.

I do, however, find it interesting that you support the article I posted, even though it contradicts something you yourself wrote earlier.

That the second cop was not properly trained.
My article says that current training isn't enough to overcome prejudice on the part of the police officers.

SO that guy? Was properly trained, and he still killed someone.

I'm looking for the FBI statistics you mentioned, if you've got a link I'd appreciate that.
I did find this though:
The Counted
People killed by police in the US - The Guardian

Can you please be quote or be more specific Plastroncafe ??? I do not see the contradiction, I very well may have.

In my earlier statements I was trying to state its not a race issue, but a issue of prejudice and its not just with black people, but with minority and domestic violence ect.....

As I said before the cop in involved in the Minnesota shooting WAS NOT PROPERLY TRAINED it is very evident.
Here is a good article from the post that breaks down the FBI Supplementary report. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/up...says.html?_r=0

Also PlastronCafe you can say people understand, but they don't and trust me its not like fire fighters. Fire Fighters don't have to guess if a fire is friendly or not. A Fire Fighter does not respond multiple fires a night. Fire Fighters know there enemy and don't have to make judgement calls like police officers do.

You say "people understand that police put their lives on the line" But frankly most people don't. Most people have never had to fight for their lives, most people don't know what its like to fight for a gun with a man who is bigger and stronger than you, but unless you have felt that adrenaline rush....that fight or flight instinct, you have never had stare death in the face.