Do you think Raph is getting enough character/central focus?

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I just read the novel you sent links to and I still stand by what I said. I'm an antisocial person with a firey temper from time to time so I guess that means I'm going to go out and kill someone or commit a crime. I never committed a crime in my life. I'd be too afraid of the consequences. Yes there are truely nuts and crazy people out there but not all people with anger issues commit crimes or murder people.

I do not want to see Raph's anger issues constantly drumed into my head because there's much more to the character than that. As I said before, I don't mind exploring his anger further but I don't want him to become a caricature of himself with the anger which is what Nick seems to be doing.

Um...I never said you would commit crimes and you wouldn't have thought that if you actually read it. I just think a thorough understanding of violent impulses will actually make Raphael's character more credible.

If you read the articles you would realize it does say that the genetic side of aggression doesn't necessarily lead to aggression. Having a personality disorder doesn't mean all people with a disorder will commit crimes. Environmental variables doesn't always create killers either. What the articles suggest is there is a complex mixture of genetics, environmental variables, and disorders to make a impulsively violent person.

Before people used to think the cause of aggression was trivial things such as lack of sex, or the desire to fit in, when in reality the cause of aggression is much more complex.

Which is why I bring up aggression when it comes to Raph's character because there are mutually accepted causes(meaning it has enough evidence to convince most people) and speculative causes (an opinion based on incomplete information and lacking evidence). Neuroscience is making more discoveries than ever before and it would be silly not to keep up-to-date with their discoveries.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Werecat

Um...I never said you would commit crimes and you wouldn't have thought that if you actually read it. I just think a thorough understanding of violent impulses will actually make Raphael's character more credible.

If you read the articles you would realize it does say that the genetic side of aggression doesn't necessarily lead to aggression. Having a personality disorder doesn't mean all people with a disorder will commit crimes. Environmental variables doesn't always create killers either. What the articles suggest is there is a complex mixture of genetics, environmental variables, and disorders to make a impulsively violent person.

Before people used to think the cause of aggression was trivial things such as lack of sex, or the desire to fit in, when in reality the cause of aggression is much more complex.

Which is why I bring up aggression when it comes to Raph's character because there are mutually accepted causes(meaning it has enough evidence to convince most people) and speculative causes (an opinion based on incomplete information and lacking evidence). Neuroscience is making more discoveries than ever before and it would be silly not to keep up-to-date with their discoveries.

Yeah, I just love your smart ass I'm smart and you're dumb tone. Yes, I see what you're saying now but again, it's all about the anger. I want to see a mixture of emotions.

[Splinter the boss]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I'd hardly call what you're talking about as Raph getting character/central focus like Donnie, Leo and sometimes Mikey has had. Has Raph had a decent amount of episodes to himself? No.
.

Raphael has had episodes to himself such as "turtle temper" which addressed his whole anger issue thing. There is " Follow the leader " which addressed the whole him being a rebel and in the end
it was obvious he was sorry for undermining Leo's training, and there is " Slash and destroy " and I could have mentioned " cockroach terminator " but thought no because it was like a filler episode.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss

Raphael has had episodes to himself such as "turtle temper" which addressed his whole anger issue thing. There is " Follow the leader " which addressed the whole him being a rebel and in the end
it was obvious he was sorry for undermining Leo's training, and there is " Slash and destroy " and I could have mentioned " cockroach terminator " but thought no because it was like a filler episode.

Yeah, that's like how much screen time and focus compared to all the others. what about season 3. Any in there you can point out besides Clash of the Mutanimals? That was only one episode and the season is nearly over. He is not getting nearly as much focus as all the others, plain and simple.

[Splinter the boss]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Yeah, that's like how much screen time and focus compared to all the others. what about season 3. Any in there you can point out besides Clash of the Mutanimals? That was only one episode and the season is nearly over. He is not getting nearly as much focus as all the others, plain and simple.

Alright, you are right about this one. I also hope Mikey gets some character focus in season 4, he has been getting nothing except in dimension X which by the way I guess changed his brain so it was not the Mikey we all know.

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Yeah, I just love your smart ass I'm smart and you're dumb tone. Yes, I see what you're saying now but again, it's all about the anger. I want to see a mixture of emotions.

I am going to ignore your personal attacks. -- A mixture of emotion is kind of guaranteed isn't it? I am just referring to a basis for his theme as a character.

Edit: This image really represents most of the people on here

What is up with people thinking someone trying to learn is condescending or insulting? If anything it just shows how much of a terrible person you are to put someone down for trying to learn or share knowledge.

[GoldMutant]

Oh boy, I stay away from the thread, and this happened?

Not you Splinter, I can understand some of your reasoning, but I do respectively disagree. Like I said before, in total Raph has had about 7 to 11 episodes with him an actual main character in this series. Barring Splinter and Casey, he's the least focused on of our main seven heroes.

Sheesh, just what the shell happened? (now I'm just babbling like a buffoon now)

[GoldMutant]

Well, this is looking strange. Season 3's quality has improved by the time of (insert episode name here), but it seems these last few episodes have proven to be better than earlier. Still though, I'm very disappointed Raph only got one or two episodes for himself by this point. At least Mikey got good times twice in a row with Mega Shredder and Creeping Doom.

Anyways, back to why I wanted to say this, but anyone have a glimmer of hope for Dinosaurs Seen in Sewers? By this point, I'll still watch the show, but it's really do or die with Raph by now. I'm still annoyed with the season personally, but I am looking forward to what happens, time for Raph time next episode.

[Meliwen]

Raph's spirit costume is currently my glimmer of hope for the next episode. The last time the costume came out, Leo was going to infiltrate deep into the enemy's lair after an earlier failed attempt, which made his second attempt more dangerous. I don't think those costumes come out just because they feel like dressing up, so I'm assuming something's going to prompt Raph to wear his, so that could be interesting.

I've got my fingers crossed that the human vs mutant storyline is where Raph will shine. He seems the most interesting turtle to focus on for that given his cynical nature and how, of all the turtles, he's the one that seems to have the biggest issue with that concept.

[LS Animation]

Mikey and Leo get the most focus, then it's Donnie and Raph is certainly the least active turtle in most of the stories he's just there to be there, you know? I'd love to see more of him, Raph is an interesting character and perhaps the most complex out of the turtles because he's not that much of a stereotype like the others. I think the writers could try harder and give him a chance to shine

[LeotheLateBloomer]

In the first two seasons, I felt it was Donnie, Leo, Mike, and Raph in that order. Nothing against Nick Raph but I really do think they treat him like Sega treats Knuckles, a tough character with bad luck. I'm probably the minority that didn't laugh at Raph having trouble riding the horse in "Turtles in Time".

[kolaida]

Yeah. I would say so, especially now at the end of season 3, he's only been thrown a couple really good episodes this series it seems. I actually really love this series Raph and that's probably because he is usually the voice of reason even more so than Leo despite having a short temper. And voice of reason characters usually get shortchanged due to being reasonable in situations. They seemed to really tame his temper in season one with a few outbursts since. Still love him, just would like to see some extra eps with him.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by LS Animation

I think the writers could try harder and give him a chance to shine

They could but it's very doubtful. I still remember when they were saying "oh, we're going to explain how Raph got those marks on his shell"...and obviously that didn't happen.

The guy got what...maybe 1 episode aka the last one before the finale? (I'm not counting an episode where he got turned to a baddie for 3 minutes and then Leo saved the day). If that's not a sign, I don't know what else they need to do for people to see it.

Do Mikey & Raph even have any moments together? That was like the one good thing going for this show...

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

They could but it's very doubtful. I still remember when they were saying "oh, we're going to explain how Raph got those marks on his shell"...and obviously that didn't happen.

They haven't explained that...yet. You can't say that obviously didn't happen until they say the series itself is over. We still have two seasons coming up and its highly possible we are going to learn about that when we go into episodes that flashback on the the Turtles as kids.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I'm not trying to be rude. But people kept telling me 'you can't say anything until the season has ended, so shut up' (since it was told that "It would be explained/an episode will feature it sometime This Season")...and you know what? It didn't happen. So yes, I can say it.

People keep coming up with theories about what will happen in the future of this show (not just about Raph, but tons of other stuff), and NONE of them happen.

"Oh wow, they have these new suits and stuff from Spirit Quest!" They did nothing with them.

Of course, don't get me started on the whole 'Dark Raph' theories...I still remember when I was the one of the only guys saying "it's going to be nothing", and I was being told to 'shut up, you don't know what you're talking about'...and yet I was RIGHT.

I don't think it's "Highly Possible" (just my opinion, feel free to disagree). Look at the Third Season. Like I said, Raph had what...1 episode? I'm not counting the 'turned to a baddie for 3 minutes and Leo saves the day by making fun of him'...he was a useless character and he doesn't even have the 'banter with Mikey', which was one of the only redeemable things for him. And yes, I can say that because...forgive me if I'm wrong...but I THOUGHT that the Raphael character was SUPPOSED to be a badass fighter. Where did he show that in this season? The dozens of times that the guy had to get saved (which would be okay IF HE ALSO saved some of his brothers, at least ONCE in a while during the Entire Season).

They even took that away. So why is it 'highly possible'? The most "Memorable" thing for Raph in season 3? Getting turned into a flower. That was it.

I do not think the writing is as 'great' as people make it out to be. When they don't know what to do with a character, then 'hey, maybe a love interest that will go nowhere since it's a kids show'. Or 'hey, let's have a finale in which the WORST THINGS HAVE HAPPENED, but then Casey goes 'yay, we're going on an adventure' while Mikey mentions Pepperoni. It's extremely inconsistent writing which gets the pass, when it honestly shouldn't.

This is not meant to be any rudeness to anybody. I just don't understand some of the Passes that this show gets when it doesn't further its' characters (especially Raph, Mikey fares a little better), extreme amnesia in its' ongoing story lines as well as unbelievable character reactions (the finale is a prime example of that)...

And this is a show that wants to have its' cake and eat it too. It wants to be both the 80s cartoon and the 2003 cartoon at the same time. And I'm sorry, that mix does not work (and yeah, I know I'm apparently the only one who feels that way). It's such an inconsistent tone.

In one episode, it's killer pizza called Pizza-Face. Then another episode, it tries to be something dark/meaningful but then it is 95% negated because it gets forgotten in the next episode. It wants to be a series where a character has an Ice Cream Kitty for a Pet, and then on the other end it wants to...well...the 3rd season finale which is the Total Opposite Extreme.

The Extremely Uneven Tone (light 80's one minute, then trying to be darker 2003/comics the next, then back, then forth), the inconsistent and overrated Writing (referencing a bunch of older movies/tv shows doesn't mean 'good writing'), plot amnesia, poor handling of characters (I will NEVER understand the defense for Raphael's character, especially for his portrayal in Season 3)...

In my opinion, the show is Overrated. And yes, that's why I did give up on the show a long time ago. I can already see the 'then why are you still posting' remakes. It's because A: I don't like others forcefully and rudely telling me what I can and can't do and B: because to me some criticism SHOULD be put onto this show, and particularly this 3rd season.

I'm sorry victory-angel, this wasn't meant for you. Was just responding and it turned into a big ole rant of stuff.

[Cure]

The more you say you're sorry, the less sincere it is.

[Powder]

I count 6.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Powder

I count 6.

I went back and cut the 'sorrys' down. I honestly didn't think it mattered, but I guess it does to some people.