What do you think about different skin-colored TMNT?

[PangolinFeets]

They might actually have the correct amount of fingers and toes too.

If anything, that's always been my pet peeve. Stylistically, it looks cool. But it makes no sense. (Ohwaitshit... They're mutants. :p)

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Bombshell

I think its completely plausible for the four turtles to have different skin tones. If you look at turtles in a petstore, they all have different markings on them, even in the same species. The yellow stripes are different, even the red markings are different (for RES). Their shells are different and yes, skin tone is different. Pigment is what the specialty breeders look for when picking out what male and female to mate to achieve what color for color mutations.

I always liked the different color skin tone. It gives them individuality outside of their weapons and headbands. They're not the same, just like the petstore turtles are not the same. So in essence, they shouldn't look the same. Even scientific genetic clones have differences from their host animal, and they have identical dna!

Along with the differences every turtle has, throw in some human dna and you've got a huge color pallet to work with. My skin tone is different from my sister's skin tone and we have the same parents. Hers is pinkish while mine is a hint yellow. Its not a far cry to see that four sibling turtles from the same parents (if thats what they are) can have different markings and shades of skin tone.

Yeah, but again though, they are supposedly from the same clutch. What you see in the pet store are not often from the same clutch, and if their markings are that different, they may not even be of the same species. There are hundreds of species. The human influence in their genetic make up is from a single donor, not two humans mating. There's also the possibility that the mutagen itself is a chemical compound that simply activates certain genes in the turtle itself, and the human component is meaningless.

[plastroncafe]

You're speaking specifically about Cartoon Canon, because in Mirage Canon there's no "human DNA" to be considered.

Also...there's no specific mention in Mirage canon about the turtles being from the same clutch at all, or at least there isn't to my knowledge. Can someone provide evidence to the contrary?

Short of a DNA test there's no real way to know whether or not they're genetically related, not that it should matter. They were raised as brothers and that right there is enough.

[Powder]

The adoptive family theme has been in every iteration from day one, blood relation has never mattered & it should remain that way (barring the IDW reincarnation angle).

[Jester]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Short of a DNA test there's no real way to know whether or not they're genetically related, not that it should matter. They were raised as brothers and that right there is enough.

Originally Posted by Powder

The adoptive family theme has been in every iteration from day one, blood relation has never mattered & it should remain that way (barring the IDW reincarnation angle).

Exactly why i bring it up. I LOVE the adoptive family aspect of the TMNT and it always makes me wince when people argue that they have to be genetically related....I'm looking at you Next Mutation Leo.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Powder

The adoptive family theme has been in every iteration from day one, blood relation has never mattered & it should remain that way (barring the IDW reincarnation angle).

Well it is questionable if they're a family in the Fred Wolf cartoon (the last couple of episodes I watched they never used any stronger words than "Buds" to describe their relationship to each other) but it does tend to be prominent.

[Powder]

Splinter does call them "My sons" at one point or another, at least I think so. Either way, whether or not certain terms are used, they live as a family & love each other.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Jester

Exactly why i bring it up. I LOVE the adoptive family aspect of the TMNT and it always makes me wince when people argue that they have to be genetically related....I'm looking at you Next Mutation Leo.

If they are related, then they should look almost identical, (except for markings, of course) and while they may exhibit other attributes of differentiation (shell length and symmetry, overall size) they would look quite similar, barring any extreme melanistic traits.

If not, then it doesn't matter, clearly, and they could even be of varying species. The overarching point, I think, is the need to differentiate them by color at all. It's somewhat insulting, as it suggests the audience is too feeble minded to distinguish each brother on their own (OT's young audience excluded of course).

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Powder

Splinter does call them "My sons" at one point or another, at least I think so. Either way, whether or not certain terms are used, they live as a family & love each other.

He says, "My sons" a couple times, he even calls them Donatello's "Brother Turtles" in an episode. I know one of the episodes where the Turtles get de-aged, the younger Turtles call the teen-aged ones big brothers....but I think they call Splinter an uncle....eek.

[Cryomancer]

I can go either way on this. As a ninja clan, it makes sense for them to be essentially clones, appearance wise. Like it's their uniform. There are also things you could, potentially, do with it in a story, like if someone thinks they have one turtle captured but really it's another.

But Mirage is also quite focused on it's adoptive family aspect, and being straight up different colors from each other would probably reinforce that further. Obviously it was a toys / tell them apart method, and I doubt the people that decided that thought beyond that, but this also has the happy side effect of giving kids a TV show where a bunch of dudes with different skin colors consider themselves equal brothers and never once even mention it.

[Joey Kamikaze]

My head canon for the old universes were that Leo and Raph would be genetically brothers. Because of course they are.

[Commenter 42]

I think there's something interesting in the 4 of them being almost identical. It reinforces that who they are matters over what they look like.

I also agree it would be a useful psychological mind f*ck in battle.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I've leaned on both of those ideas briefly back in my ficcin' days.

I'unno... I mostly see them as the original movie versions. Different enough to tell them apart pretty easily, but still close enough so that at a glance or if they switched gear you might take a second to figure it out. I don't have a big problem exactly when they're given a lot of clearly distinguishing physical characteristics, but I don't find it at all necessary, either. I just don't find it plausible, for some reason, that they'd look that much different from each other post-mutation. And from there it just goes back into wanting a better reason than "Why Not?" to just go ahead and do that.

I get it, it's fake, but I like a little verisimilitude in my stories, too. "Well, why CAN'T they look different?" I'unno. Why would they? It just goes back and forth. Me, I think it's more likely they'd look similar.

Doesn't "break" anything if they do look a lot different, I just think it's kind of an arbitrary thing to do.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Red-earred sliders don't have different skin colors. And even if there were, if these guys are supposed to be brothers, from the same Mama Turtle...? I think in IDW they're supposed to be sea turtles but even with those I'm pretty sure there's no disparity within a single batch of eggs.

Au contrare. As others have pointed out, there are variations, even between clutch-mates. It doesn't take much digging to find plenty of different color and marking variations in RES's, up to and including rare pigment mutations such as melanism or albinism- EVEN IN THE SAME CLUTCH! You can get individuals with very dark or light pigment, or changes in the red patch, etc, even with the same parents- because markings and shell size, pigmentation, and even how high the shell's keel is are all determined by the genes of the parents.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I like that the Turtles have different skin color, cause y'know what. Turtles do have different skin color, it may not be as apparent for someone who's not used to seeing turtles often, but they do. Markings, color, size, shape, it's all unique.

One of my favorite designs have different skin color and body build on the Turtles, and that's the OotS version off the Turtles, not only that, but they also have more proper turtle markings which I'm a huge fan off. As they are supposed to be Red-Eared Sliders, which are not a very "mundane" colored turtle, they can be quite colorful in their youth.

^This.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I've always assumed four baby turtles from the same mother turtle, and these guys are TURTLES, not kittens. They should look pretty much the same.

And as a little kid, I was always confused by how Don was brown not green. I'd never seen any brown-skinned turtles. At least the other three were shades of green...

So maybe Donnie had more melanin pigment in his skin? It can happen. No two animals of ANY species are ever exactly the same, except in the rare case of identical twins. Heck, in some cases, animals of drastically different appearance can be born into the same litter/clutch, whatever. And reptiles are also prone to the odd phenomenon of Siamese twinning, more so than most animals. See also: two-headed turtles, conjoined turtles, etc....

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Not really, because we do only first see them in a pet shop glass bowl.

But again, they are all the same breed of turtle. And turtles don't have the genetic diversity or cosmetic diversity or whatever the hell gives you a litter of kittens all black and white, calico, orange tabby, everything under the sun all from one mama.

Here's the thing, though. Female cats are notorious for breeding with multiple males, so those same kittens may NOT even all have the same father! The mother's genes are only HALF the story. And it's the same with turtles.

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

i like how there's no "i like/love it" poll option. oh, Andrew.

personally i like the skin colors. i see a lot of talk about logic and realism (and aside from that real turtles actually DO have differing skin and markings, that's a real thing) i don't think there's any ILLOGICAL reason not to have the colors, either. the Turtles become more human when they mutate, they get teeth, they get human eyes, etc. they become humanoid to the point that the only really turtle trait they have is their shell. they're more human than turtle in my opinion, and all humans have visibly different skintones than one another, as opposed to the perhaps more subtle differentiations of real turtles, and even siblings and sometimes twins have complexions that differ from each other. if we're really bringing "science" and genetics into this rather than a purely artistic/design/style standpoint, then it seems more scientific and believable to me that they'd have different complexions.

I love this! A purely realistic approach, and it really DOES make perfect sense for why they would all be so different.

Originally Posted by Lordmylar06

I've actually seen red eared sliders with differing skin tones. Darkness of the skin in sliders is caused by age. The older one is, usually the darker the tone. This isn't so true for sliders in captivity though. Also, the red ear markings can sometimes fade to an orange or more yellow tone over time.
That being said, differing skin tone due to age wouldn't apply to the TMNT as they were all around the same age.
I do however entertain the thought of red ear slider accurate skin on them. I think if done properly with a top notch colorist it could be beautiful.

Absolutely. I have this personal head-canon that they DO have faint markings remaining, but the most obvious one (the red patch) is always covered by the masks. The rest have just faded so much that they're barely visible except on VERY close inspection. And perhaps they simply had two very differently toned parents, thus the disparity.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I'm with you. It's true RES colors can vary a lot, but within a clutch, the variation is minimal. I'm a big fan of them looking almost identical. I'd be more comfortable with markings distinguishing them, if anything.

What really irritates me is when they are pushed as sea turtles. It makes absolutely no sense.

Not necessarily. If the parents are very different from each other (ie if one is an albino or very dark, for instance) then you could very well get several distinct color variations, depending on the genetic lottery of how the DNA fell.

As for the sea turtle thing, I agree. I don't even know how ANYONE thinks the IDW TMNT were ever sea turtles, since they are clearly in a freshwater semi-aquatic terrarium!

Originally Posted by Bombshell

I think its completely plausible for the four turtles to have different skin tones. If you look at turtles in a petstore, they all have different markings on them, even in the same species. The yellow stripes are different, even the red markings are different (for RES). Their shells are different and yes, skin tone is different. Pigment is what the specialty breeders look for when picking out what male and female to mate to achieve what color for color mutations.

I always liked the different color skin tone. It gives them individuality outside of their weapons and headbands. They're not the same, just like the petstore turtles are not the same. So in essence, they shouldn't look the same. Even scientific genetic clones have differences from their host animal, and they have identical dna!

Along with the differences every turtle has, throw in some human dna and you've got a huge color pallet to work with. My skin tone is different from my sister's skin tone and we have the same parents. Hers is pinkish while mine is a hint yellow. Its not a far cry to see that four sibling turtles from the same parents (if thats what they are) can have different markings and shades of skin tone.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

That video is at most 10% accurate. The penis size is true of some species, not all. Salmonella is an issue as well. That's about it. Snappers, not res, have a worm shaped tongue. RES live 20-30 years, (longer out of captivity) not 200. Their shells can bleed they don't spontaneously bleed.

Also, most city dwelling animals are vectors for disease, not just rats. Humans are pretty high up there too, as are most livestock from factory farms. Proximity is the real problem.

But sure, hahaha...yep, this video is full of hilarious misnomers. Yippee for stupid.

Oh, thank the gods that someone else saw that video for the idiocy that it truly is!

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Yeah, but again though, they are supposedly from the same clutch. What you see in the pet store are not often from the same clutch, and if their markings are that different, they may not even be of the same species. There are hundreds of species. The human influence in their genetic make up is from a single donor, not two humans mating. There's also the possibility that the mutagen itself is a chemical compound that simply activates certain genes in the turtle itself, and the human component is meaningless.

I notice no one has mentioned hybridizing. There are at least four different subspecies of Slider, of which the RES is only one. There are also the yellow-bellied, the Cumberland, and the Puerto Rican, and apparently there are several other subspecies that are only semi-recognized, but all can interbreed, and each is distinct from the others. SO if the mama was a typical RES but the father was, say, a yellow-belly, then there could indeed be some big differences in the four!

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

So maybe Donnie had more melanin pigment in his skin? It can happen. No two animals of ANY species are ever exactly the same, except in the rare case of identical twins. Heck, in some cases, animals of drastically different appearance can be born into the same litter/clutch, whatever. And reptiles are also prone to the odd phenomenon of Siamese twinning, more so than most animals. See also: two-headed turtles, conjoined turtles, etc....

Not necessarily. If the parents are very different from each other (ie if one is an albino or very dark, for instance) then you could very well get several distinct color variations, depending on the genetic lottery of how the DNA fell.

As for the sea turtle thing, I agree. I don't even know how ANYONE thinks the IDW TMNT were ever sea turtles, since they are clearly in a freshwater semi-aquatic terrarium!

I think they were drawn with flippers in IDW, IIRC...

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I notice no one has mentioned hybridizing. There are at least four different subspecies of Slider, of which the RES is only one. There are also the yellow-bellied, the Cumberland, and the Puerto Rican, and apparently there are several other subspecies that are only semi-recognized, but all can interbreed, and each is distinct from the others. SO if the mama was a typical RES but the father was, say, a yellow-belly, then there could indeed be some big differences in the four!

It's really hard to find good information on the subspecies of sliders beyond the ones you've mentioned.

I think, barring the sort of breeding that intentionally drives high color sliders, or caramels, (both of which are not often found in the wild precisely due to their high visibility, and thus not surviving through to adulthood) You'd have to admit, to the likely hood of drastic variation is small, especially if we take time and place into account (15 years ago from today, or as far back as 15 years prior to 1984.) Hybridization wasn't, to my knowledge, a big thing. Sure, the parents may have been two sub sliders...I'll give you that, but I again defer to Andrews point; NONE of this was the reason behind the different tones of green, it all exists for marketing purposes, nothing more, and in the larger sense is very much a statement about the audience.

I get what you and Candy Mean about variation - I see it, but to the non-Herp, when you see a mature clutch together, it looks like this:

We can tell them apart, but will most people?
And the emerald green is long gone. They don't look like this as teens:


the toy variation is more like this:


Which you'd be hard pressed to find in the average clutch together.

[neatoman]

If we're going to go by what RES turtles look like in real life, we can clearly see a number of flaws in the design of the TMNT within the Mirage continuity:

1. Why do they have teeth?
2. Why do they have three thick fingers and two thick toes instead of five claws on each hand and foot?
3. Why are their tails so thick?
4. Why isn't their skin striped?
5. And why don't they have red markings on their heads?

Pointing out the lack of accuracy to the RES species to argue against different skin colors doesn't really work when the general design isn't very accurate to begin with.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by neatoman

If we're going to go by what RES turtles look like in real life, we can clearly see a number of flaws in the design of the TMNT within the Mirage continuity:

1. Why do they have teeth?
2. Why do they have three thick fingers and two thick toes instead of five claws on each hand and foot?
3. Why are their tails so thick?
4. Why isn't their skin striped?
5. And why don't they have red markings on their heads?

Pointing out the lack of accuracy to the RES species to argue against different skin colors doesn't really work when the general design isn't very accurate to begin with.

You're absolutely correct, except that when asked on numerous occasions, Laird has always said that they were indeed RES, so it's an issue for sure. He's also said that they didn't have much in the way of reference material whenthey were in the creation process.
Laird's general response to the number of fingers, seems to be "we thought it would be neat and goofy!"


Sooo, I guess you could take it up with them?

[Cryomancer]

They were smart putting mutant in the title, any and all physical questions can be answered with "well, they are mutants".

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by neatoman

[*]Why do they have three thick fingers and two thick toes instead of five claws on each hand and foot?

Their heel is actually the third toe, very much like X-Men's Nightcrawler. The pseudo-heel was also at one point able to grip things, stated in the Solson's How to Drawn the TMNT book. But to my recollection it's never been used and was probably scrapped (but kept in the character sheets) alongside with other traits such as the retractable claws.

[Rooish]

LOL! I would love if they had retractable claws. That's awesome.

I think the third toe thing was seriously scrapped before it was implemented, along with the claws.

I still don't get why everyone is so insistent they are red eared sliders. They never as baby pre mutated Turtles look like red eared sliders. Nor do they currently. It was just something Steve Murphy made up one time. And he made up a lot of things.