The relationship between the Turtles and humans

*Prowler* · 07-21-2018, 05:57 PM

As we all know, the Turtles live in the sewers because they can't just go out in broad daylight and let themselves be seen. They'd end up getting persecuted by the government and being subjected to scientific experiences and perhaps be put in some sort of zoo or something.

That being said, in most versions the Turtles usually seem to live years avoiding human contact with a success rate of 100% until they eventually meet April and thus get their first human friend. Ok in the FW series technically that was Splinter/Hamato Yoshi since he was originally a human, but they were already his pets quite sometime before the mutations and Splinter also was in a rough situation and couldn't really move out of the sewers, so it's not really the same thing.

Anyway, I think it's best for the Turtles not to have many human friends. April and Casey and plus maybe a couple of others are fine,but the rest of the human species they come in contact with should be divided into enemies or people they might help or cooperate in on certain circumstances. It should never reach a point of the turtles being able to go out in broad daylight without a disguise and being able to get jobs like they did in the FW series.general acceptance of the Turtles by society seems to make their existence a bit pointless. The Turtles should be viewed as "freaks" and made feel alone in the world.

I also think the Turtles should keep some misanthropic views and be distrustful of humans. Even in the FW series Raphael and Donatello had these sort of feelings for humans. And who can blame them? Try putting yourselves in their shoes. Honestly, I think if any animal gained human like intelligence he'd also eventually learn to hate humans. How do you suppose the Turtles feel about the way humans treat animals in general? Yeah...

Which is why I don't like the idea of the Turtles being full blown superheroes much, even though it obviously worked in the FW series.

So yeah, not more than a handful of human friends at best, I'd say.

Thoughts?

*IndigoErth* · 07-21-2018, 07:23 PM

Well, then my opinion won't appeal to ya... I wouldn't go overboard on making it too commonly done, only rarely, but really I wouldn't mind exploring them eventually being able to gain more freedom in society that they'd have earned. Would be very hard won and they'd deserve every inch of it.

I guess I just wish for that for them, rewarded with it as they damn well earned it, rather than the entirety of their story always being tragically isolated for their entire lives.

And there is where those darn PD movies disappoint me that they weren't great films. Those films in particular could have been the most appropriate place to explore it with. They'd already become acquainted with that police department, which would be to their benefit in terms of their own safety in the world and more people that might be willing to help them out now and then to try to make their lives a touch easier. (No doubt in return for secretly helping those cops once in a while.) The cops would have made it a lot easier to get the right people, including local government, on their side, rather than fearing and abusing them. (And then maybe throw in a betrayer for one film.)

Had those films actually been good and afforded them a number of films... it could have progressed with them slowly becoming a little known to the city (a period of being believed as urban legends would have been fun) and a final film down the road ending with becoming fully known to the city as heroes after a major event (the city now shocked that the urban legends are true AND just saved all of their asses), and with their police friends backing them, and being with them in public as need be for a while as they get used to a bit of freedom and the locals get acquainted with them. (Whether a film actually covers that or simply clearly implies that it would be the case post-film.) Then their issue is just celebrity-like problems since they stick out like a sore thumb. lol There's going to be haters, that's life. But as long as they've got the right people at their back to make sure they're okay, it could work out alright.

As for the Turtles' own opinion of humans... I tend to think they may well consider humans an impressive species that has so much potential and so much goodness, yet disappointingly can somehow also turn around and be so incredibly horrible and fail to ever fully reach for our real potential.

As for them... I feel they might feel about human treatment of other animals much the same as human animal lovers do. IF they care to that extent... they might not all share the same level of concern. I would not think that any of them would ever mistreat harmless creature, though the Turtles themselves are entirely capable of the same flaws humans possess and they're hardly vegetarians or PETA supporters... what with the meat they'll gladly eat or kick a few sewer rats out of the way. Maybe a bit of a gray area in terms of their own sense of self, as they know they are different, but probably don't really feel too different on the inside, sharing a very similar/same sense of personhood.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 07-21-2018, 08:44 PM

I've explored this (and seen it explored by others) in a few fics, and I tend to think they would be actively against animal abuse of any kind, especially Mikey. Probably environmental activists or spokesturtles, as well.

As for being publically known, I think the introduction would have to be done a la Broadway from Gargoyles, after purposely letting themselves be seen a few times while helping civilians (fires, stopping burglaries, or saving people from accidents). If they sat down in a secure location to give an interview, it would go a long way toward influencing public opinion of them- if they ever chose to reveal themselves.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 07-22-2018, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

Which is why I don't like the idea of the Turtles being full blown superheroes much, even though it obviously worked in the FW series.

The turtles as semi-heroes worked between the end of the Big Trilogy, after the turtles had sent the Technodrome away from Earth, and Red Sky seasons.

*Prowler* · 07-24-2018, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The turtles as semi-heroes worked between the end of the Big Trilogy, after the turtles had sent the Technodrome away from Earth, and Red Sky seasons.

Yes, because at that point the show had become a parody of itself and the sense of tension was pretty much gone. Season 5 in particular has very litte action. And also, some of the one shot villains in season 4 and 5 were rather lame.

*pferreira* · 07-26-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

Yes, because at that point the show had become a parody of itself and the sense of tension was pretty much gone. Season 5 in particular has very litte action. And also, some of the one shot villains in season 4 and 5 were rather lame.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it became a parody but I don't feel the TMNT being accepted by the public was really explored much past the Big Trilogy apart from them just getting jobs in Splinter Vanishes. That could have been an interesting way to develop them rather than have the world pretend they don't exist again afterwards like they did.

*victory_angel* · 07-26-2018, 09:02 PM

I sort of see where you're coming from. The turtles being mutants can't afford to be seen by humans. All it takes is one person to say they are monsters and they are suddenly labeled Public Enemy #1.

Take other shows that have similar premises. X-Men the main characters are able to blend in with human society but are forced to use restraint and extream caution with their powers so as to not draw attention to themselves. And then when they are exposed it takes only one government official to start a campaign to have them all rounded up and imprisoned as threats and in some cases terrorists.

Gargoyle's much like the TMNT these are creatures that only come out at night (They don't have the option to come out during the day even if they wanted to because they turn to stone) and for a time they are able to avoid the general public. Unfortunately the time they spent living in New York they are seen by humans and at the end of the series, their existence is well known. Which leads to the city dividing itself between those who act out of fear as to what these creatures could potentially do if left unchecked. Others who feel the Gargoyles may not be the threat people think they are. And others who only want to use their gargoyles for their own personal gain.

With the 87 series, even when the Turtles were in disguise the general public still knew it was them. Much of the time the humans of the city could be described as sheep. In that, they were generally okay with the Turtles walking around, but when someone like Bern Thomson or someone started calling out the Turtles as a threat, all the humans get aboard the hate train.

People like Casey and April are proof that there are some people in human society that could learn to welcome and understand them. But regardless humans should still be approached with caution.

Take the 2k3 series where the Turtles have that partnership with that homeless camp. The Professor's not known if he is aware the Turtles are mutants, but regardless of whether he is aware of that or not he still welcomes them as fellow outcasts. But there are those two guys that are shown commenting about how they think the Turtles are just guys in costumes.

And in the 2012 series, there was that one episode where they were nearly exposed by Joan Grody. With Muckman there was already a group of people saying he was a hero so that was the only direction she could go. The Turtles she had more freedom to trash talk about how they were a threat to the city. Fortunately, that was covered up by Muckman saying they were just a bunch of kids dressing up and playing vigilante. But if that plotline could have been revisited it would have been revisited it could have led to some serious events for the turtles from people who believe Grody that the Turtles are a threat that needs to be rounded up and imprisoned or otherwise disposed of. While others will point out there is no proof these Turtle creatures are doing what Grody claims they are doing. And of course, those who only want to use mutants for their own personal gain.

*pferreira* · 07-27-2018, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

With the 87 series, even when the Turtles were in disguise the general public still knew it was them.

I don't really remember that happening. The disguises fooled everybody.

*victory_angel* · 07-27-2018, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

I don't really remember that happening. The disguises fooled everybody.

Zack was able to recognize them for who they were even though they were wearing human disguises. And also the Episode where that collector guy was stealing TMNT memorabilia, when the Turtles are checking in with that pizza place and the owner tells them the pizza box they had signed had been stolen they also were in human disguise

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 07-27-2018, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira

I wouldn't go so far as to call it became a parody but I don't feel the TMNT being accepted by the public was really explored much past the Big Trilogy apart from them just getting jobs in Splinter Vanishes.

And the time the turtles went to a pizzeria without disguises in the Big Cufflink Caper episode.

*pferreira* · 07-27-2018, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Zack was able to recognize them for who they were even though they were wearing human disguises. And also the Episode where that collector guy was stealing TMNT memorabilia, when the Turtles are checking in with that pizza place and the owner tells them the pizza box they had signed had been stolen they also were in human disguise

Okay so the disguises didn't always work.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 07-27-2018, 02:04 PM

If Zach know the turtles' disguises, and spotted four persons standing next to each other while wearing such disguises, it wouldn't be that hard.

*pferreira* · 07-27-2018, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

If Zach know the turtles' disguises, and spotted four persons standing next to each other while wearing such disguises, it wouldn't be that hard.

But it worked a lot of the time so that's what matters.

*miru* · 08-13-2018, 08:56 PM

Even if Mutants became public knowledge, their status as ninjas would still have to be kept hidden for stealth.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 08-14-2018, 03:45 AM

I believe the purpose of the disguises in the Original Cartoon wasn't to hide the turtles from humanity, but to draw less attention to themselves and make trips to the surface for Pizza and the likes less inconvenient since they were known superheroes. Sure they weren't the best disguises, but something is better than nothing and there

They could be more or less necessary depending on the situation. Like after Season 3 for example, the turtles received a public congratulations and didn't need the disguises as much since the public had an overall much better view of them and there weren't as many anti-turtle campaigns (Clayton Kellerman comes to mind)

I don't recall the disguises appearing at all from season 7 onwards. The latest I can remember is season 5 during Planet of the Turtleoids. Anyone know if they used disguises during Season 6?

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 08-14-2018, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I believe the purpose of the disguises in the Original Cartoon wasn't to hide the turtles from humanity

It definately was during seasons 1-3.

*pferreira* · 08-17-2018, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

It definately was during seasons 1-3.

I was about to agree with FredWolfLeonardo but yeah you're right, from Season 1-3 they are trying to find themselves from society. From Season 4 onwards the disguises are just so they attract less attention to themselves.

oceanfr · 08-18-2018, 12:40 AM

They've gotten a better understanding over time of ones they can yield to.

*miru* · 08-23-2018, 08:32 AM

I think they would develop a distrust o them over time. But not enough to go on a rampage just because Star Wars was ruined.

Dejablue · 09-09-2018, 08:46 PM

I don't have context but maybe the pizza owner knows its them but not necessarily the customers?

This could also be another one of those "Oh yeah us NewYorkers is tough" scenarios where the people are so jaded by life in the Big Apple that they honestly don't care if the turtles walk by or not.

07-21-2018, 08:44 PM	#3
MsMarvelDuckie I Married a Duck! Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: The bowels of Hell, Texas(otherwise known as Decatur) Posts: 8,772	I've explored this (and seen it explored by others) in a few fics, and I tend to think they would be actively against animal abuse of any kind, especially Mikey. Probably environmental activists or spokesturtles, as well. As for being publically known, I think the introduction would have to be done a la Broadway from Gargoyles, after purposely letting themselves be seen a few times while helping civilians (fires, stopping burglaries, or saving people from accidents). If they sat down in a secure location to give an interview, it would go a long way toward influencing public opinion of them- if they ever chose to reveal themselves. __________________ "You IDIOTS! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -from "Spaceballs" "Where Science ends, magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491 My various stories and fan-fics are now here- https://m.fanfiction.net/u/4770494/#end

07-26-2018, 09:02 PM	#7
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,103	I sort of see where you're coming from. The turtles being mutants can't afford to be seen by humans. All it takes is one person to say they are monsters and they are suddenly labeled Public Enemy #1. Take other shows that have similar premises. X-Men the main characters are able to blend in with human society but are forced to use restraint and extream caution with their powers so as to not draw attention to themselves. And then when they are exposed it takes only one government official to start a campaign to have them all rounded up and imprisoned as threats and in some cases terrorists. Gargoyle's much like the TMNT these are creatures that only come out at night (They don't have the option to come out during the day even if they wanted to because they turn to stone) and for a time they are able to avoid the general public. Unfortunately the time they spent living in New York they are seen by humans and at the end of the series, their existence is well known. Which leads to the city dividing itself between those who act out of fear as to what these creatures could potentially do if left unchecked. Others who feel the Gargoyles may not be the threat people think they are. And others who only want to use their gargoyles for their own personal gain. With the 87 series, even when the Turtles were in disguise the general public still knew it was them. Much of the time the humans of the city could be described as sheep. In that, they were generally okay with the Turtles walking around, but when someone like Bern Thomson or someone started calling out the Turtles as a threat, all the humans get aboard the hate train. People like Casey and April are proof that there are some people in human society that could learn to welcome and understand them. But regardless humans should still be approached with caution. Take the 2k3 series where the Turtles have that partnership with that homeless camp. The Professor's not known if he is aware the Turtles are mutants, but regardless of whether he is aware of that or not he still welcomes them as fellow outcasts. But there are those two guys that are shown commenting about how they think the Turtles are just guys in costumes. And in the 2012 series, there was that one episode where they were nearly exposed by Joan Grody. With Muckman there was already a group of people saying he was a hero so that was the only direction she could go. The Turtles she had more freedom to trash talk about how they were a threat to the city. Fortunately, that was covered up by Muckman saying they were just a bunch of kids dressing up and playing vigilante. But if that plotline could have been revisited it would have been revisited it could have led to some serious events for the turtles from people who believe Grody that the Turtles are a threat that needs to be rounded up and imprisoned or otherwise disposed of. While others will point out there is no proof these Turtle creatures are doing what Grody claims they are doing. And of course, those who only want to use mutants for their own personal gain. __________________

09-09-2018, 08:46 PM	#20
Dejablue Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the USA Posts: 637	I don't have context but maybe the pizza owner knows its them but not necessarily the customers? This could also be another one of those "Oh yeah us NewYorkers is tough" scenarios where the people are so jaded by life in the Big Apple that they honestly don't care if the turtles walk by or not. __________________ ^^^^ SHELLHEADS Inc.- A TMNT Discord!

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07-21-2018, 05:57 PM	#1
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	The relationship between the Turtles and humans As we all know, the Turtles live in the sewers because they can't just go out in broad daylight and let themselves be seen. They'd end up getting persecuted by the government and being subjected to scientific experiences and perhaps be put in some sort of zoo or something. That being said, in most versions the Turtles usually seem to live years avoiding human contact with a success rate of 100% until they eventually meet April and thus get their first human friend. Ok in the FW series technically that was Splinter/Hamato Yoshi since he was originally a human, but they were already his pets quite sometime before the mutations and Splinter also was in a rough situation and couldn't really move out of the sewers, so it's not really the same thing. Anyway, I think it's best for the Turtles not to have many human friends. April and Casey and plus maybe a couple of others are fine,but the rest of the human species they come in contact with should be divided into enemies or people they might help or cooperate in on certain circumstances. It should never reach a point of the turtles being able to go out in broad daylight without a disguise and being able to get jobs like they did in the FW series.general acceptance of the Turtles by society seems to make their existence a bit pointless. The Turtles should be viewed as "freaks" and made feel alone in the world. I also think the Turtles should keep some misanthropic views and be distrustful of humans. Even in the FW series Raphael and Donatello had these sort of feelings for humans. And who can blame them? Try putting yourselves in their shoes. Honestly, I think if any animal gained human like intelligence he'd also eventually learn to hate humans. How do you suppose the Turtles feel about the way humans treat animals in general? Yeah... Which is why I don't like the idea of the Turtles being full blown superheroes much, even though it obviously worked in the FW series. So yeah, not more than a handful of human friends at best, I'd say. Thoughts?

07-21-2018, 07:23 PM	#2
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,228	Well, then my opinion won't appeal to ya... I wouldn't go overboard on making it too commonly done, only rarely, but really I wouldn't mind exploring them eventually being able to gain more freedom in society that they'd have earned. Would be very hard won and they'd deserve every inch of it. I guess I just wish for that for them, rewarded with it as they damn well earned it, rather than the entirety of their story always being tragically isolated for their entire lives. And there is where those darn PD movies disappoint me that they weren't great films. Those films in particular could have been the most appropriate place to explore it with. They'd already become acquainted with that police department, which would be to their benefit in terms of their own safety in the world and more people that might be willing to help them out now and then to try to make their lives a touch easier. (No doubt in return for secretly helping those cops once in a while.) The cops would have made it a lot easier to get the right people, including local government, on their side, rather than fearing and abusing them. (And then maybe throw in a betrayer for one film.) Had those films actually been good and afforded them a number of films... it could have progressed with them slowly becoming a little known to the city (a period of being believed as urban legends would have been fun) and a final film down the road ending with becoming fully known to the city as heroes after a major event (the city now shocked that the urban legends are true AND just saved all of their asses), and with their police friends backing them, and being with them in public as need be for a while as they get used to a bit of freedom and the locals get acquainted with them. (Whether a film actually covers that or simply clearly implies that it would be the case post-film.) Then their issue is just celebrity-like problems since they stick out like a sore thumb. lol There's going to be haters, that's life. But as long as they've got the right people at their back to make sure they're okay, it could work out alright. As for the Turtles' own opinion of humans... I tend to think they may well consider humans an impressive species that has so much potential and so much goodness, yet disappointingly can somehow also turn around and be so incredibly horrible and fail to ever fully reach for our real potential. As for them... I feel they might feel about human treatment of other animals much the same as human animal lovers do. IF they care to that extent... they might not all share the same level of concern. I would not think that any of them would ever mistreat harmless creature, though the Turtles themselves are entirely capable of the same flaws humans possess and they're hardly vegetarians or PETA supporters... what with the meat they'll gladly eat or kick a few sewer rats out of the way. Maybe a bit of a gray area in terms of their own sense of self, as they know they are different, but probably don't really feel too different on the inside, sharing a very similar/same sense of personhood.

07-27-2018, 02:04 PM	#12
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,154	If Zach know the turtles' disguises, and spotted four persons standing next to each other while wearing such disguises, it wouldn't be that hard.

08-13-2018, 08:56 PM	#14
miru Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,874	Even if Mutants became public knowledge, their status as ninjas would still have to be kept hidden for stealth.

08-18-2018, 12:40 AM	#18
oceanfr Random Punk Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: NY Posts: 15	They've gotten a better understanding over time of ones they can yield to.

08-23-2018, 08:32 AM	#19
miru Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,874	I think they would develop a distrust o them over time. But not enough to go on a rampage just because Star Wars was ruined.