Star Wars Episode 8

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

Rian Johnson came up with that idea, and I didn't see anything wrong with that. Having Luke gasp looking at his lightsaber and then start moaning about how much it meant to him would have been cliche and boring. Just like the people who wanted Rey to be Obi-wan's daughter or Luke's granddaughter or whatever.

[Andrew NDB]

I had no problem with the lightsaber thing, beyond it voiding the "unspoken conversation" they had in silence at the end of 7 for like 3 minutes. I laughed (though I was the only person in the theater who did).

We already have Kylo around to represent "the new generation of Skywalker" (which to me is important in the numbered movies... the side movies and spinoff stuff can do whatever, but what are the main movies if not the "Skywalker saga"? take that away, what separates it from the spinoff stuff?) so I don't super care if Rey was Luke's daughter or not (though I kind of wanted her to be). What I needed them to do is reveal her parentage or otherwise origins to explain how she was able to be as skilled as she was "out of the box" in 7. "They're just random people" would have been fine if Rey wasn't unnaturally Force skilled with no training in 7, but she was. As is, "they're just random people" is neither clever nor... anything, really.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

Some fans.
I really liked that part.

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The main irritation for me is hooking us on various things that we are made to look forward to and Luke tossing his first lightsaber as symbolism of what Kathleen Kennedy thinks of the fans.

If I were in his position, I'd probably get a PTSD-like flashback to getting my hand chopped off...but he seemed to be mostly over it and the Vader reveal by the next film.

I guess Luke's arc in TLJ works much better if you mostly ignore ROTJ. One of my friends from school only sees ANH and TESB as having real filmic merit (though he still borrowed my blu-rays of ROTJ and the prequels to watch before TFA came out) and he loved TLJ.

He's a film major in his mid-20s but kind of set in his ways when it comes to admiring older movies. He's never seen Ghostbusters II and the latest version of Blade Runner he's watched is the '91 director's cut.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Whether we vote with our wallets now or in the future, though... as much as I wish Kathleen Kennedy would say, "Hahaha... that was just a dry run, folks... the ACTUAL movies are still coming," episode VII and VIII are never going to go away. They're always going to be there.

And that's unfortunate.

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. hopefully they will learn a very expensive lesson.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. hopefully they will learn a very expensive lesson.

To be fair, they are listening. Everyone complained -- rightly so -- that 7 was a scene-for-scene company mandated remake. So with 8 they did the opposite... they just gave it to "some guy" who had done like 1 movie and let him do whatever. Unfortunately, the entire lack of oversight on 8 ended up hurting it almost as much as the "too much oversight" did on 7.

[Spike Spiegel]

Disappointed fans should just go though the stages of grief with this franchise.

They don't owe us a certain kind of story any more than we owe them ticket sales. Lucasfilm/Disney are a corporate entity, run by individual creatives. That staff roster could change at any time. I personally don't like Dan Slott's soon-to-end run on the Spider-Man comics, but that hasn't made me hate the character. And after he leaves, I may end up buying the comics again.

Episodes I-VI are still a complete story, as are IV-VI or IV-V if you have a hateboner for Ewoks. It doesn't matter what version you watch, either. Clone Wars and Rebels are great, but you can take them or leave them. I personally prefer Ahsohka's arc to Ezra's.

All this compounded fan outrage on either side of any given issue is probably a big chunk of what made Lucas sell it all anyway. He's too old and too rich to have to listen to thirty somethings whine for the rest of his life.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. .

Nobody cares what a bunch of 30-40+ year old manchildren think on internet forums. "Keyboard warriors" is not a term I would be using either, whatever the hell that means. Nowadays it's more like "youtubers" or "twitter people."

We're not in the early 2000's anymore, nobody cares about forum dwellers. Social media is what business execs and famous people see since they're on it.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

yep. but, at least the 'keyboard warriors' will send a very clear message that this is not what we want. hopefully they will learn a very expensive lesson.

studios don't care what whiny complainers about everything who live in there mom's basement have to say

[Vegita-San]

yes and no.

I say most def yes to the first part. most def yes to the last part. and a flat out no to the middle.

They shouldn't ALIENATE fans the way they've been doing. Episode 7 got a pass because it had nostalgia and people where just happy to see han and lea and the falcon on screen again. Episode 8 had none of that. and fans responded in kind.

yes, they should do what they want to do with the story, but they should ALSO give fans a rewarding experience after waiting 30 years. 7 did that. 8. ... not so much. and there isn't much hope for 9 or solo either. Hell, when luke friggen skywalker says star wars is basically dead to him and he's done... that's something.

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

Disappointed fans should just go though the stages of grief with this franchise.

They don't owe us a certain kind of story any more than we owe them ticket sales.

All this compounded fan outrage on either side of any given issue is probably a big chunk of what made Lucas sell it all anyway. He's too old and too rich to have to listen to thirty somethings whine for the rest of his life.

[plastroncafe]

Some fans.
You don't speak for all of us, youngling.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Some fans.

You are not wrong but if we're going to use that term then "some fans hate the prequel but some fans love it"

I personally like the prequels but I won't try to argue that they're not disliked by a large group.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by sdp

You are not wrong but if we're going to use that term then "some fans hate the prequel but some fans love it"

I personally like the prequels but I won't try to argue that they're not disliked by a large group.

Where as the prequels didn't work for me.
However, my saying that neither negates your experience nor disqualifies you as a fan.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

yes and no.

yes, they should do what they want to do with the story, but they should ALSO give fans a rewarding experience after waiting 30 years. g.

I had posted then decided against yesterday in relation to 'it's not your star wars' but why not.
While I appreciate the need to introduce new things, I don't like reading 'it's not your star wars' that's fine for the next 3, they are going to be a totally separate thing, but when you are bringing back the original characters and concluding their story fans will see it as 'their star wars' these characters were eagerly awaited.

as for the age comments? I mean, yeah I get young fresh audience etc but I'm pretty sure that people in their 30s and 40s are spending money on these things too, I know I love going to see movies and I buy the movie if I like it, some buy merch or if we share with our children then comes more spending on them, so sure we can be included too cant we? After all, referring to above, weren't we the ones racing out to see the return of these characters?
That being said, there are the older fans who liked these.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, you folks are getting your wires crossed. Disney is more than well aware that "Star Wars" is not, like, "Blumhouse's Truth or Dare" for 13 year-olds. They know that "Star Wars" is a multi-generational thing that they want to step on tippy-toes with, to ensure it thrives for future generations. And if they feel like even one step or misstep ends up on a prick, they re-calibrate. And apparently with Star Wars, they are not the least bit afraid to shoot the same movie twice. Again and again.

But it's a bit like TMNT at this point. There is no longer any human heart in the center of it all. Just a boardroom of 100 investors. And Kathleen Kennedy pretending to be in charge.

#losingbattle

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But it's a bit like TMNT at this point. There is no longer any human heart in the center of it all. Just a boardroom of 100 investors. And Kathleen Kennedy pretending to be in charge.

#losingbattle

bingo.

this is why MOST reboots fail. ID4. Feigbusters. Star Wars. TMNT.

There is no Kevin Feige who loves and understands the characters, AND knows how to make good movies to boot, guiding it all. it's all corporate checkpoints at this stage. get said property to last a few years, reboot and try again if it doesn't work.

and THAT will delude things faster than any reboot will.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by sdp

I personally like the prequels but I won't try to argue that they're not disliked by a large group.

Neither will I.

I liked MOST of the prequels. it's still got bad acting, annoying characters..and way too much CGI. But on the whole, it FELT like star wars. gave us LOTS of knew stuff, and is good enough to enter nostalgia well remembered.

these new movies feel like throw aways. enjoy for 2 hours and relive if you want to. don't spend too much thought on it.

[plastroncafe]

I love the idea that only NOW is Star Wars corporate, and not like...when the Christmas Special came out.

Or when they made action figures of every minor character and droid.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

this is why MOST reboots fail..

Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Mad Maxx, etc. all have had successful reboots.

Any superhero series you see on TV or movies right now is essentially a "reboot" of an older incarnation. They're all doing well. TMNT has had at least two successful reboots so far under Viacom, (IDW and Nick 2012), and we'll see how the new show does.

[sdp]

I loved Star Wars so much, one of my favorite franchises and now I just don't care for it. I hate to be a broken record but it just. I can finally understand all those whiny prequel haters felt. And I don't really want to become like they were back in the day constantly complaining about it.

I just don't see how they can fix it at this point, they've ruined the OT more than any prequel could ever. I guess I'll always have the original movies and look at the new stuff like I did the EU back in the day "enjoy the cool stuff, don't even think about the bad stuff". It's just so disappointing.

All I know is I felt so alone after The Force Awakens released since no one shared my opinion but now I feel the majority is on my side.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I love the idea that only NOW is Star Wars corporate, and not like...when the Christmas Special came out.

Or when they made action figures of every minor character and droid.

It's always been a making money business but it's different ideologies. Multi-National Disney who answers to shareholders or Lucas the rich guy who controls every decision.

They want to treat Star Wars like Marvel and put people in charge who are OT fanboys. There's also the political agenda but that's not the reason Disney Star Wars sucks now no matter how much people may make it out to be, but I do think it's the reason so many are defending this garbage (not to say there aren't fans who may like it).