Downfall of the original Playmates toy line (80s and 90s kids)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by colincollects85

Specifically, when did you start to lose interest in TMNT toys and merchandise? What were your thoughts on all the crazy variations of the Turtles, and reissues Playmates kept pumping out?"

By mid–1992, I recall thinking the Toxic Crusaders would maybe become a threat to TMNT.

[MikeandRaph87]

MMPR took some of the TMNT popularity,but aside form the original six flip heads and 12 inch giant figures was it really that strong of a toy mover? Merchandise definitely,but I don't remember people flockin to K.B. Toys outside of the original line.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by colincollects85

The Super NES definitely put a huge dent in my interest for toys in general also. I got my first SNES for Christmas of 1992. It was the Super Set with 2 controllers and and included a copy of Super Mario World. Also got Mortal Kombat the same day. I was definitely hooked, and so were my friends.

It must have been 1993 (check out under Release).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal...992_video_game)

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

I would say 1992. The Mutanimals comic was cancelled in June 1993.

The basic wave figures would be made in 1992 or early ‘93.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What was a part of the Scratch wave?

Mona Lisa (common), Halfcourt (common), Robotic Bebop (common), Robotic Rocksteady (uncommon), Scratch (rare), Sandstorm (uncommon), Hot Spot (rare).

[colincollects85]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

It must have been 1993 (check out under Release).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal...992_video_game)

It was Christmas of 1993 when I got MK, then. I stand corrected. The arcade version came out in '92.

[colincollects85]

Originally Posted by SilverNinja

Oh man, it's tough to pinpoint exactly when I started to lose interest in the original line. I remember I was in the minority when it came to the look of the Movie Star turtles. I hates all those weird spots on them. However as an adult, I now have them all in my collection. Another thing that made me roll my eyes were the Turtle Trolls. I liked trolls and I loved my turtles, but the combo was soooo lame. However, I have a troll Leo and the Giant Troll Leo because I'm a sucker nowadays, haha.

I never had any interest in Scratch or Hotspot and I don't remember ever having seen those. I'm sure my hunt for figures had ended before then or the shelves could have been pretty bare already.

I was kind of a morbid kid. I remember liking the Movie Star Turtles because they had rubber limbs. You could easily pop them off and pretend like their limbs got cut off in battle. The spots were kinda weird, though.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by mikey0

The basic wave figures would be made in 1992 or early ‘93.



Mona Lisa (common), Halfcourt (common), Robotic Bebop (common), Robotic Rocksteady (uncommon), Scratch (rare), Sandstorm (uncommon), Hot Spot (rare).

I got all of those except for Hot Spot. I did not want a fireman dalmatian who never appeared in the 1987 cartoon. Neither did Sandstorm or Halfcourt appear anywhere else,but Sandstorm could be used as an anti-smoking PA character, I actually did that when playing with the figures.

In fact I actually attempted to come up with episodes that would fit in with the character with the characters that did not appear.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

In fact I actually attempted to come up with episodes that would fit in with the character with the characters that did not appear.

I have seen some fanfiction writers doing that

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6481997/1/The-Long-Road

[Zachatello00]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Did that (thinking the TMNT would return) cause you to buy the figures?

Not directly. I was just excited to see them again. I had missed seeing them, lol.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

By mid–1992, I recall thinking the Toxic Crusaders would maybe become a threat to TMNT.

The independent retailers and the discount department stores did not order as many cases of the 1991 Playmates Toxic Crusaders line as they did the 1991 Hasbro The S.P.A.C.E. Adventures of Bucky O’ Hare and 1991 Tiger Toys Captain Planet and the Planeteers figures. Perhaps that was because business owners were not familiar with the Toxic Avenger movies. The cardbacks of the 1991 Playmates Toxic Crusaders toy line was almost a carbon copy of the ones used for the first two waves of the original 1988 Turtles line. I think the 1991 Playmates Toxic Crusaders action figures suffered from being too uniquely sculpted and detailed. The day glo paint applications did more to hurt and date the Toxic Crusaders line than help it. The glow in the dark weapons for the villains of the Toxic Crusaders toy line were a nice touch though.

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

MMPR took some of the TMNT popularity,but aside form the original six flip heads and 12 inch giant figures was it really that strong of a toy mover? Merchandise definitely,but I don't remember people flockin to K.B. Toys outside of the original line.

Certain 8 inch ranger figures and 6 inch original flip heads sold well, but the others were left with the evil space aliens.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by mikey0

Adventures of Bucky O’ Hare.

I have seen all 13 episodes of Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars from 1991 and think they're OK for a pre-animated Batman children's cartoon. I know the world couldn't stand too many young green heroes but that's probably not the only problem.

I don't think 1991 was the best year for space adventure-fiction. The Cold War came to an end that year, and the Space Race no longer-spawned any major interest. If the cartoon had come out in 1984 or so, I think Bucky O'Hare could have been a huge hit.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

I have seen all 13 episodes of Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars from 1991 and think they're OK for a pre-animated Batman children's cartoon. I know the world couldn't stand too many young green heroes but that's probably not the only problem.

I’m quite positive my cousin saw Bucky O’ Hare and the Toad Wars as being no different from the other cartoons inspired by the Turtles at that time. Samurai Pizza Cats, Spacecats, Toxic Crusaders, Darkwing Duck, and Bucky O’ Hare and the Toad Wars never measured up to the 1987 Fred Wolf cartoon. None of the attempts at overthrowing the Turtles compared, it was on its own level.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by mikey0

I’m quite positive my cousin saw Bucky O’ Hare and the Toad Wars as being no different from the other cartoons inspired by the Turtles at that time. Samurai Pizza Cats, Spacecats, Toxic Crusaders, Darkwing Duck, and Bucky O’ Hare and the Toad Wars never measured up to the 1987 Fred Wolf cartoon. None of the attempts at overthrowing the Turtles compared, it was on its own level.

Bucky O'Hare isn't TMNT-inspired (but that's probably what many believed). The comic debuted in May 1984, the same month and year as four other green heroes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_O%27Hare

[inaheap]

Without the cartoon to hold my interest other things like Star Trek kind of took over. The irony is that as a kid I never really got into the oddball variants and characters that were not in the show. But as a adult I love finding these for my collection.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Bucky O'Hare isn't TMNT-inspired (but that's probably what many believed). The comic debuted in May 1984, the same month and year as four other green heroes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_O%27Hare

True, but it might not have become a TV show without TMNT.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by mikey0

Darkwing Duck

Darkwing Duck is Batman-inspired. I used to like it until it was cancelled for being too violent.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Bucky O'Hare isn't TMNT-inspired (but that's probably what many believed). The comic debuted in May 1984, the same month and year as four other green heroes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucky_O%27Hare

Bucky O’ Hare and the Toad Wars was inspired by the 1987 Fred Wolf series. Bucky O’ Hare and the Toad Wars was on the air due to the popularity of the 1987 Fred Wolf Turtles cartoon in late ‘88 to early ‘91. Not the 1984 Continuity Comics comic book.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Darkwing Duck is Batman-inspired. I used to like it until it was cancelled for being too violent.

Darkwing Duck was a spoof of Batman in the way the Turtles were spoofs of the New Mutants and Teen Titans. Disney’s Darkwing Duck was made to capitalize on the success of Batman and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in the Bush 41 era.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Maybe the Children's Television Act also had a negative impact on the marketing on the toys?

[Leo656]

Pretty spiffy thread! Great insights so far.

I must be among the minority of TMNT fans, because I never cared about Power Rangers. Amy Jo Johnson, yes. Power Rangers, not at all.

I actually never got too deep into the TMNT line, and thus hopped off of it fairly early. I'm a bit of an odd collector in that, while I collect lots of stuff, I'm not much of a completionist, I don't really do variants, and I mostly go for basic versions of main characters before anything else. If a line is mostly variants and/or obscure stuff, I generally move on. Like, I love Batman, loved the 1990s animated series. I have, like, three figures from that line, because it was 99% variants, at least what was available in stores.

I loved the TMNT line, and still do, but with some reservation. From the very beginning, it disappointed me in some way or other, mostly its inconsistencies. Loved the Turtles figures... But Splinter's head looked weird. Some of the most anticipated and important characters, like Shredder, were given terrible figures. The original Shredder figure is iconic, but it also may objectively be the worst licensed action figure of all time. It's inexcusable. He's the main villain! We saw what the line was generally capable of - which was always creative even when it wasn't exactly aiming high - and most of the figures were brilliant. But some of the best characters were given lousy toys. Right away, I had a love/hate thing with the line. Some stuff was terrific, but it was so inconsistent.

I feel like there was a general lack of focus, although I liked what they were generally going for. It had a great mix of the cartoon stuff with a little Mirage and Archie mixed in, and a wide cast of characters, which was terrific. But I think the way the series released everything was too scattered and disorganized. It should have been better coordinated. They did kind of start off with the most familiar characters from the show, since the two were linked, but as others have pointed out, very often new characters on the show didn't get a figure for some time, if ever, while many characters who had toys never, or rarely, appeared on the cartoon. As a kid, I liked the general look of all the toys, but I never saw the characters I expected to see, if that makes any sense. You'd get movie toys way after the movie came out, instead of at the same time, as logic would dictate. Or a figure of Irma way after you forgot that they still hadn't made one and had long since stopped caring. Some of their choices for release order were just bizarre, and I think that could have had some effect as the line went on. You never knew what to expect, aside from wacky variants and random waves with characters seemingly put together for no reason.

One thing that I noticed, was that some of the "Toon" figures had a much different, "cleaner" style than the basic line. I get what they were going for, and part of me kind of prefers it, but again it's an example of a general inconsistency in the overall line. Everything was inspired, but some of it didn't fit together well.

What I hoped for, and would have liked to have seen, was more focused waves of figures with more specific themes, released in a more timely fashion with what they were based on. First few waves, all characters from the cartoon. Then a Mirage wave (since several Mirage figures made it into the line, anyway, despite it ostensibly being a cartoon-based toy line). Then alternate Cartoon waves with other stuff. "Wave 4: Cartoon Season _", "Wave 5: 1990 Movie", "Wave 6: Cartoon Season _", "Wave 7: Archie Series", and so on. You'd have a lot of the same figures that actually saw the light of day, plus most likely more as they'd need more characters to fill out each wave. Like, even if Playmates version of Movie Shredder would have been a pale comparison compared to, say, NECA, it still would have been nicer than what we did get, which was nothing. If they had tightened up the whole thing a bit, we could have had so much more.

You absolutely could still do the variants and whatnot, but to me they always partly felt like a separate series from the main toys, anyway. Not completely but like, adjacent to. The Mutations figures and Storage Shells and other gimmicks felt more like spin-offs than an integral part of the main line. Same for the Clowns and Rock Stars and Trolls and Sports Star Turtles and whatnot. People obviously like 'em to a point, so I don't see why they shouldn't be a thing. But the goofy gimmicks definitely overtook the main line after a while, and that's probably what killed most of the interest. They weren't all to my taste, but they were creative. There were just too damn many, at the expense of the "real" figures.

Essentially, if I were in charge back then, I simply would have released each wave of figures with an identifiable focus, and keep the variants and gimmicks more off to the side of the main line. It wouldn't be so chaotic, and we'd have gotten at least a few more characters, and hopefully some better sculpts and articulation for a few.

I can't remember exactly which figures I own. They're all in a box in the garage. Not as many as I would like, but I can pretty much go get more at the flea market if I'm ever inclined. The "Core 4", obviously. I might have Splinter, but I honestly forget. As a kid I had Rocksteady but not Bebop, but I can't remember if I ever fixed that. Usagi, Baxter, Traag, Fugitoid, Krang (both Bubble Walker and "Body" variants, but not the giant Krang's Body toy), Slash, Metalhead, Chrome Dome, Casey... and that damn Shredder. Who went to the bottom of the closet when I got the Super Shredder figure. He may look odd alongside the basic figures in the line, but he cuts a much more imposing presence than his gimpy, purple, shirtless counterpart. But that's about it. I know I have a few more, but not many. As I said, I mostly went for basic figures of main characters, and those got tough to find after a while. There's still a lot that I want, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. But I live across the street from the biggest flea market in NJ, so once more, should I ever feel the urge, I can probably fill in most of my gaps in a weekend. That's comforting.

As for what kept me from specifically collecting more TMNT toys, Hasbro's WWF line, 100%. Once that launched, that was ALL I cared about until it went under 5 years later or so. After that, I didn't collect anything hardcore until the Toy Biz WCW line from 1998 to 2001. Which. Was. (Deep breath) Amaaaaaaaaaaziiiiiing. By then, you could still get TMNT toys at Kay-Bee but it was essentially dead. You could get almost any figure for a buck, though, so that was nice. I always used to go for wrestling figures over anything else, and to a wrestling fan in 1990, the Hasbro WWF figures were beyond words. It was hard to justify buying other figures when new WWF ones were constantly coming out. A lot of wrestling figure collectors I know have had a similar experience, of dabbling in several popular lines but putting most of their resources towards getting more wrestling figures. To be fair, those lines are exhausting, with output far beyond any other toy line, period, in terms of sheer volume. I own thousands of wrestling figures, and it's not even 20% of what's come out since 1990. Just Jakks and Mattel alone each produced thousands of wrestling figures between 1995 and today, and with the way sculpts and paint jobs constantly improve, and outfits constantly change, collecting variants isn't even optional, it's integral. And then there's the endless waves of Legends and other assorted figures. Collecting wrestling figures is an overwhelming hobby, and to pursue it, often other lines simply have to be put aside for a while. The Hasbro WWF line were the first wrestling figures I collected, but that's mainly been my focus ever since.

All that said, the original TMNT line, while not perfect, still is absolutely one of the best toy lines of its era, objectively. There were a ton of great characters. Most of the sculpts were great. The overall look of the series was inspired. The playsets and vehicles were great. The action gimmicks worked. When one of the worst things people say about your series is that you simply had too much product available to market, you've done a good series. I didn't collect most of it, and definitely wouldn't buy a lot of it even now, but objectively, it's a great, fun line. I can totally appreciate it despite not owning a whole lot of it.

I liked the 2003 line a lot, too. I think I have a few more of those figures.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Power Rangers, not at all.

I watched some Power Rangers episodes (as TMNT had already been taken off air in Sweden for over a year during the autumn of 1994), but again, I felt ashamed. I watched some episode in secret but it's not easy to enjoy something when you always have to watch out for being caught (with one hand near the remote control, ready to switch channel).

[mikey0]

As much as I do not like the pop-up displays of the very late ‘89 into 1990 winter season, they were better than what came afterward. There were some neat ideas every now and then in the original Playmates line from 1991 to 1997, but it was not back-to-back releases like ones from ‘88 to ‘90. The jokebooks, fan club fold outs, and stickers were a nice way to make up for the lack of Playmates Toys toy catalogs in those years. Of course, there were posters, Mutations charts, and the small yellow Turtles action figure catalogs in ‘91 to ‘93. Because the line was falling off in those years, not many adult collectors and sellers know of inserts like that being in the original Playmates toy line. When I first saw them, I thought cardbacks for Turtles variants like Slam Dunkin’ Don and T.D. Tossin’ Leo were very creative. Unfortunately, those two figures do not stand out amongst the rest because they are silly toy versions of the NINJA Turtles.

I wish the original Playmates toy line had stayed like it was in the beginning with the Gags, Jokes, and Crazy Weapons accessory packs, tiny fan club forms, and the National Quiz Jokebooks coming with Wacky Action figures. Closer to an ‘80s action figure line than a ‘90s action figure line. The pop-up display and giant figures were the wall between when it was an ‘80s toy line with a heavy Mirage Comics influence and a ‘90s toy line made almost exclusively for fans of the 1987 Fred Wolf cartoon and 1988 Archie Adventures comic book. Also, The Sewer Playset and Technodrome should have closely resembled the designs from the Playmates Toys Dealer Catalogs of the late ‘80s. Well, that is my two cents anyway.