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Old 01-23-2018, 09:09 PM   #1421
Utrommaniac
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I assumed that particular kid knew because he's Force Sensitive and "felt" it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:39 PM   #1422
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I assumed that particular kid knew because he's Force Sensitive and "felt" it.
That's a good possible explanation. I assumed it was simply weeks or months later, after whispers spread about the last stand of the resistance and Luke's role.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:14 PM   #1423
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Okay, now you're just straight up trying to negate what we actually saw in the film because it does not fit your views and coming up with any excuse for why it's not valid.

It was in the film. That denouement could also have been months later. If you don't like the film, fine - I don't think any Star Wars film has been universally loved since A New Hope - but let's not pretend the film didn't do things it actually did because it's inconvenient to your argument.
Ehh... I liked the film, but that scene wasn't remotely even presented as some kind Of, "Luke made this sacrifice, the word is out galaxy wide about it, even to child slaves on casino planets!" That's a reach. It seemed like Johnson was going for some kind of symmetry there, or simultaneous "The Force finding balance, somehow" thing, but watching the movie there is no way I'd come to the conclusion the end is stemming directly from some kind of public knowledge of Luke's Force projection sacrifice. Plus, no one even really knows he's dead yet. Think about it. WE saw him die... but if you're Rey, or anyone else... you go to Ach'to and he isn't there, can you even be certain he's dead at all?
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:20 PM   #1424
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I think it's pretty safe to say that Leia knows.
As does Ray, and probably Kylo.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:24 PM   #1425
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I think it's pretty safe to say that Leia knows.
As does Ray, and probably Kylo.
I'll give you Leia, probably, but it seems like the "I know so-and-so died because of the Force" so far in Star Wars seems to be limited to direct blood relatives, people you've had kids with, or entire planets of people dying. Unless it does, in fact, turn out Rey is a Skywalker.

Though how much stock would most folk put in Leia have in telling the galaxy Luke died, sight-unseen through the Force which she isn't even supposed to know much about? Particularly just having recovered from a vacuum near-death in space an hour beforehand at an elderly age? I think most people would think she's full of sh**, and this mystery about "Luke is still out there, somewhere!" would continue.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:26 PM   #1426
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That's the beauty of these movies, the force can pretty much be anything you want it to be.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:28 PM   #1427
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That's the beauty of these movies, the force can pretty much be anything you want it to be.
In the latest trilogy, it'd appear you're correct. Anything goes.

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Old 01-23-2018, 10:34 PM   #1428
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Yeah, because if there's one thing Lucas had it was an ironclad story Bible that he adhered to religiously.

*cough*Hanshotfirst*cough*
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:36 PM   #1429
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Yeah, because if there's one thing Lucas had it was an ironclad story Bible that he adhered to religiously.

*cough*Hanshotfirst*cough*
He actually did, as far as the Force goes. We can talk about midichlorians (there seems to have grown a huge misconception that's fed into itself about what they actually are since TPM came out), but what we saw in 4-6 was perfectly consistent with what we saw in 1-3.

And who even cares who shot first. That stuff is so boring and geek bait. If his finger hit the trigger 5 milliseconds before or during when Greedo hit his, who cares? He was still gonna do it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:44 PM   #1430
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Is there anything in this conversation that is not geek bait?
What is boring to you, was to me a character defining moment that was changed because the guy who made it decided there was a car coming and got a do over.

But fair is fair, there are a whole bunch of really boring conversation surrounding the newer movies as well.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:50 PM   #1431
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Is there anything in this conversation that is not geek bait?
What is boring to you, was to me a character defining moment that was changed because the guy who made it decided there was a car coming and got a do over.

But fair is fair, there are a whole bunch of really boring conversation surrounding the newer movies as well.
Not really of equivalent nature. In 20 years, I am reasonably certain we will not be sitting in theaters watching "The Last Jedi: Kathleen Kennedy Special Edition" where Luke actually visits the salt planet. Or whatever. Less people will care, the whole "WOW! Star Wars is this big event, these special editions are the first things new we're seeing of Star Wars ever!!!" won't be a thing. The big event has passed. For new generations, TFA and TLJ will just be remembered about the same as the latest "Maze Runner" movie, possibly even less favorably.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:56 PM   #1432
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I guess we'll find out won't we.
Personally? I think that was always going to be the case anyways. The original trilogy was lightning in a bottle.

I don't think anything will ever top their greatness, but then again I say that as someone who could not have been less impressed with the prequels. I saw each of them opening night, and I haven't seen them since.

I think it's okay if the current Trilogy of movies doesn't reach the same height as the previous 6.... Which again in my estimation is still debatable because I didn't like the prequels.

The nature of media is completely different now, and I don't see the rapidly changing face of media entertainment slowing down anytime soon.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:11 PM   #1433
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Ehh... I liked the film, but that scene wasn't remotely even presented as some kind Of, "Luke made this sacrifice, the word is out galaxy wide about it, even to child slaves on casino planets!" That's a reach.
It really had no other significance than "kid talks about Lukes last stand, as Luke has become myth and folktale passed from person to person", so I don't think it's a reach. Like I said, I just assumed it took place weeks or months later. If that's not what they were going for, there wasn't much point in the scene. Besides, it ties very much in with the way the film focuses on heroes, legends, myths and everything that comes with them.

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In the latest trilogy, it'd appear you're correct. Anything goes.

To be fair, Lucas wasn't even super consistent with that. We got an explanation for what the Force was from Yoda. Then the prequels muddies the waters with midichlorians and such. The whole saga, Lucas onward, was made up as they went along.

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And who even cares who shot first.
I've been saying that for years. It never goes over well.

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The big event has passed.
To be fair, that was always going to be the case whatever the merits of the films. You can't really fully recapture the hype and wave that came with the prequels, the first Star Wars films in twenty years when the franchise could still "do no wrong". The yearly schedule isn't helping, I think.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:47 PM   #1434
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Star Wars could've continued to be "an event" if Disney had wanted and make as much money from the franchise as they wanted. Instead they went the route of milking it. Sure Lucas also milked it but not in movie form, only to the fans through comics/books/figures, here we're getting at least one movie a year if not more and people will get tired of it eventually. Short Term vs Long Term money and Disney went for Short.

I think a lot of the backlash in TLJ is people realizing this and they're getting off their Star Wars high and being a bit more selective. The flaws of Disney Star Wars are becoming more apparent and being bombarded by more and more movies isn't feeling right for a lot of people. The movie Solo will likely do a lot more damage to the character of Han than Greedo shooting first ever did.

I was a little kid when the Special Editions came out, I had actually accidentally discovered Star Wars only a bout a year before and to me they were awesome. I loved all the changes, now as an adult I can see some of the annoying changes but in the end there's a reason Disney hasn't sold the unaltered versions on BR yet, the majority of the people don't care, only whiny fans. The prequel trilogy as criticized as it was, was always an "event".
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:30 AM   #1435
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Okay, now you're just straight up trying to negate what we actually saw in the film because it does not fit your views and coming up with any excuse for why it's not valid.

It was in the film. That denouement could also have been months later. If you don't like the film, fine - I don't think any Star Wars film has been universally loved since A New Hope - but let's not pretend the film didn't do things it actually did because it's inconvenient to your argument.
what exactly did the film do? other than keep things in the status quo and waste 2 hours with back and forth nonsense?

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Old 01-24-2018, 02:34 AM   #1436
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what exactly did the film do? other than keep things in the status quo and waste 2 hours with back and forth nonsense?

I sense andrew getting a plant graphic ready
Go away, troll.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:50 AM   #1437
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I was always under the assumption that was entirely the point.
I love when people start to justify ****** writing, by doing stuff like "this was plan all along".

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That's the beauty of these movies, the force can pretty much be anything you want it to be.
In another words - as long as they support (your) agenda everything goes. Yay!
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:54 AM   #1438
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Ehh... I liked the film, but that scene wasn't remotely even presented as some kind Of, "Luke made this sacrifice, the word is out galaxy wide about it, even to child slaves on casino planets!" That's a reach. It seemed like Johnson was going for some kind of symmetry there, or simultaneous "The Force finding balance, somehow" thing, but watching the movie there is no way I'd come to the conclusion the end is stemming directly from some kind of public knowledge of Luke's Force projection sacrifice. Plus, no one even really knows he's dead yet. Think about it. WE saw him die... but if you're Rey, or anyone else... you go to Ach'to and he isn't there, can you even be certain he's dead at all?
Exactly.

especially since after 30 years of 'winning the war', People like Rey STILL thought he was a freakin' myth. how can a SLAVE KID with no media access know what just went on, from our POV, no more than 10 minutes ago?

just crap writing.


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He actually did, as far as the Force goes. We can talk about midichlorians (there seems to have grown a huge misconception that's fed into itself about what they actually are since TPM came out), but what we saw in 4-6 was perfectly consistent with what we saw in 1-3.

And who even cares who shot first. That stuff is so boring and geek bait. If his finger hit the trigger 5 milliseconds before or during when Greedo hit his, who cares? He was still gonna do it.
'Han shot first' happened because lucas softened a bit in his old age. he didn't want han to be seen as a ruthless killer anymore. and that was the first of his bad OCD decisions regarding the original trilogy that doomed him from a public POV.

as far as 'consistant' I'd arrgue some of that point.

'your father wanted you to have it when you where old enough...' comes to mind. but lines like that would have trapped them later.




WARNING, Contains language. But THIS lady gets it. why don't so many others?

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Old 01-24-2018, 10:51 AM   #1439
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I sense andrew getting a plant graphic ready
I sense a lot of things, but the main one is that interacting with you is clearly a waste of my time, because you never respond with any depth to any challenge to your statements, unless "nuh-uh, you're wrong" is considered debate or discussion these days and not grade school fare. You only really respond with things on the level of "YUP" to anyone who agrees with you, because you're clearly great at articulating your own arguments, and can clearly stand opposing opinions so well you have to make up the idea that a Disney employee would come to a Ninja Turtles forum to defend a movie that's made over a billion dollars rather than someone just enjoys the movie, because I guess that's a bridge too far for you.

Andrew's been good enough to at least discuss things with me in threads, even if we disagree.

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Short Term vs Long Term money and Disney went for Short.
Unfortunately, that's how corporations work. Always. If it turns out the stuff's good, great, if it's not, doesn't matter as long as it makes a lot of money. That's why I was never particularly happy with Disney buying it.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:00 AM   #1440
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It really had no other significance than "kid talks about Lukes last stand, as Luke has become myth and folktale passed from person to person", so I don't think it's a reach. Like I said, I just assumed it took place weeks or months later. If that's not what they were going for, there wasn't much point in the scene.
Oh. I forgot that part, I think. They literally mention that, don't they?

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To be fair, Lucas wasn't even super consistent with that. We got an explanation for what the Force was from Yoda. Then the prequels muddies the waters with midichlorians and such.
Which wasn't contradictory. The midichlorians were explained as markers to see who had the most likelihood of having Force potential from a testing standpoint. Which makes sense in pre-Empire, Jedi Council days. It would be pretty exhausting for the Jedi Council to spend weeks training millions of people how to lift rocks, only to find out 10 guys in the bunch ever had any chance at being able to do so. Ergo, they made a test.

You have a lot of midichlorians, it doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be Force sensitive, it means you have a higher likelihood of turning out to be Force sensitive over someone with less.

I don't see it as a big deal and it didn't change a thing from the OT. Yoda wasn't talking about screening Padawans when he was telling Luke about the Force.

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I've been saying that for years. It never goes over well.
It's like the freaking Alamo with Star Wars fans. Dumb.
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