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Old 01-29-2016, 08:00 PM   #61
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Maybe there were already trace elements of mutagen in the sewer water that caused him to exceed his normal life span.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:05 PM   #62
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It's been mentioned a few times, but there was a story planned that explained why Splinter had such a long lifespan unmutated. He wasn't a regular rat to begin with or something.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:32 PM   #63
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I'm glad the Original Movie edited Nagi out of the script (yeah, Nagi was in the script for those of you who want to know). All you need is Saki as the Shredder and that's it.
I'm pretty sure he's in the Mirage comic adaption of the film, but it's been a while since I've read that.

I don't think Oroku Nagi is necessary. IDW and 2k3 both did a great job with Shredder as a character with different origins (that are still the same in a lot of key ways) where Nagi wouldn't have fit. With that said, I don't have anything against the character either, if Mirage had expanded more on their early years that probably would have been good also.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:01 PM   #64
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I wouldn't mind seeing Nagi again, but just in a "we have the whole Oroku family." Nagi as his brother, his father from IDW and his mother from the 87 cartoon, and Pimiko or Karai depending on your mood
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:23 AM   #65
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While Nagi does make Splinter's age a problem, it does make Saki closer to the turtles age by comparison. This is good for a couple of reasons, it makes him a more formidable foe. Less an adult beating on children.

In addition it helps to solidify just how needless all of the violence is to begin with.
Saki and Splinter are personally removed from the feud between Yoshi and Nagi, and by extension the turtles even more so.
And yet the cycle of violence continues anyway. Less for personal grief, and more for some intangible sense of honor.
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Old 01-31-2016, 03:54 AM   #66
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While Nagi does make Splinter's age a problem, it does make Saki closer to the turtles age by comparison. This is good for a couple of reasons, it makes him a more formidable foe. Less an adult beating on children.
Not really.
I did my calculations upon reading the original issue of TMNT Mirage and Saki would be around 35 by the time the Turtles (aged 15) first faced him.
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:53 AM   #67
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You're absolutely right, I just broke out my Vol 1 #1 to check.
Though...the turtles are 13 in that issue, and not 15....which only serves to weaken my case further.

D'oh!
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:10 PM   #68
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Nagi was important to the Mirage comics, but he is of little to no importance anywhere else. The cycle of vengence is exlusive to the source material, every other version has gone the Saki=Bad, Yoshi= good route. It become the 'common mythology' of turtles lore. If a writer has a story to tell with Nagi in a particular version, then he can be used. If not, he should not be shoehorned in by the magical words 'source material'. Like any other concept, the cycle of vengence hould only be brought into a version if it suits the intended narrative of the storyteller.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you look across many diffrent stories and mythological cycles, the only signifgance the 'source material' usually has is it's the first version. A 'common mythology' ususally develops out of all the various adaptations, retellings, and additions later storytellers add. If you resticted storytellers to going back to the 'source material' well, the aurthian cycle, Greek/Roman mythology and the superman mythos would all be very, very diffrent. Once the 'common mythology' of 4Kids, Fred Wolf, the movies, archie, and all the others entered the public consiousness, it can be argued that Mirage simply became another ingredient in the 'common mythology soup' that superceeded it's primacy.

Indeed, and yet, Nagi is still potentially more important than Mr. McAdam, a character not even seen in the Movie Adaptation comic. Every version has something that is forgotten in the end. Mr. McAdam seems generic enough as to be easily replaced with someone new, whereas every other character in that first issue is at least revisited within Mirage's pages. Such as Nagi returning as a vengeful phantasm haunting Shen's home, battling his brother's slayers one final time before being exorcised from this plane by them.

A-ha! Nagi actually works pretty well as a vengeful undead of some sort. Especially as a poltergeist haunting a house in Chihaya… or maybe more than just a house, what about the Chihaya Castle? Or Mount Kongo itself? How would he react to the Foot staying with him? Just imagine a mountain coming to life... Even your idea for him as Shredder II is valid to me, and I agree with it. A "The Joker with Ninjutsu" portrayal may be just as valid as the "poltergeist" one, much like how Wyrm is great either as a garbage collector, magical space jinn, or ferocious beast.


McAdam? I honestly have no clue.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:30 PM   #69
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I'm pretty sure he's in the Mirage comic adaption of the film, but it's been a while since I've read that.

I don't think Oroku Nagi is necessary. IDW and 2k3 both did a great job with Shredder as a character with different origins (that are still the same in a lot of key ways) where Nagi wouldn't have fit. With that said, I don't have anything against the character either, if Mirage had expanded more on their early years that probably would have been good also.
Interestingly enough. I had the storybook adaptation of the movie as a kid, and Nagi's included in that.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:54 PM   #70
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Nagi plays really well into the idea of the multigenerational conflict, the endless cycle of revenge, etc. Splinter and Saki have a lot in common the Mirage continuity, it's a shame they never even spoke.

Although I prefer when the conflict is between Saki and a Hamato Yoshi who IS Splinter in some fashion (be it through mutation or reincarnation.) It seems to lead to better stories that way, it just feels the most personal. I've warmed up to Utrom Shredder over the years but I still feel disconnected from the conflict because there's too many degrees of separation. He seems pretty content to just leave the Turtles alone in Exodus, he probably wouldn't have made his way back to Earth in their lifetimes.
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