The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > General TMNT Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-27-2021, 08:20 PM   #1
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 40,925
Is the concept of Shredder himself a bad guy? Oroku Saki did nothing wrong

Of course this changes depending on which version of TMNT you're talking about, (the original cartoon version wanted to take over the world, Ch'rell was pure evil from 2k3, etc), but speaking of Shredder in general.

He was raised in Japan to become the leader of the Foot Clan. His brother was killed by Yoshi since they had a love quarrel over Tang Shen, and then Saki killed Yoshi out of vengeance. Everything would have ended right here if the concept of mutagen did not exist, so Splinter and the Turtles would never have happened.

Yes we know the Foot Clan are assassins and have killed people, but it seemed to be a legitimate business in Japan. Is Shredder really a bad guy, from a certain point of view?
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2021, 08:35 PM   #2
neatoman
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,390
He murdered two people out of revenge and is explicitly stated to be involved with several criminal activities afterwards, including drug smuggling and assassinations, within the US so it can't be argued that it is "legitimate business elsewhere". He may be more sympathetic than in most adaptations but he is certainly still a bad person.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTH View Post
Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
neatoman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2021, 09:07 PM   #3
Coola Yagami
Overlord
 
Coola Yagami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,954
I'm sure the dude that leads a criminal empire is just horribly misunderstood.
__________________
"I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU."

Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/
I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/
Coola Yagami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 04:34 AM   #4
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
Overlord
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 10,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Yes we know the Foot Clan are assassins and have killed people, but it seemed to be a legitimate business in Japan. Is Shredder really a bad guy, from a certain point of view?
Killing people is not legitimate in any country on Earth.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 04:47 AM   #5
MementoMori
Mouser
 
MementoMori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: France
Posts: 9
This is the kind of question we can have for any evil character and that's why we love them: it's fascinating to see that above all of this, they are humans. And as humans, they failed. Why ? For many reasons many for no reasons.
Concerning Shredder, I will only talk about the TMNT 1987's cartoon. Well, his huge desire of power is for me a result of his habit of no limits.
For me he was raised in a context where he's been told that there's no limit in everything he can have. His mother helped him to be the criminal he is. Thinking about it, I'm wondering why his younger brother has been a good man ...
Shredder is also a victim, like so many men, of the patriarchy: boys are raised with the idea that to succeed, they have to be ambitious, aggressive, dominating.
So Shredder may be a result of all of these things...
If he's totally bad ? He doesn't sound like a psychopath at all. Ch'rell from 2003 is more psychopath. But in the 1987's cartoon, it seems he's more like a spoilt chid.
Smart, clever, no doubt on that. But spoilt.
MementoMori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 08:42 AM   #6
The Deadman
Foot Elite
 
The Deadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Of course this changes depending on which version of TMNT you're talking about, (the original cartoon version wanted to take over the world, Ch'rell was pure evil from 2k3, etc), but speaking of Shredder in general.

He was raised in Japan to become the leader of the Foot Clan. His brother was killed by Yoshi since they had a love quarrel over Tang Shen, and then Saki killed Yoshi out of vengeance. Everything would have ended right here if the concept of mutagen did not exist, so Splinter and the Turtles would never have happened.

Yes we know the Foot Clan are assassins and have killed people, but it seemed to be a legitimate business in Japan. Is Shredder really a bad guy, from a certain point of view?
The Yakuza are a legit criminal organization over in Japan, kinda like the mob over in the States. Not one takes them as the good guys. Same goes for Shredder and the Foot.
__________________

Last Movie Watched: Leprechaun 4: In Space (1996).
Last TV Show Watched: Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog (S1:E5).
The Deadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 09:08 AM   #7
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 40,925
From my point of view it is the Turtles and Splinter who are evil!
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 09:26 AM   #8
MementoMori
Mouser
 
MementoMori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: France
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
From my point of view it is the Turtles and Splinter who are evil!
Not evil. But the "good" who always win.
But can you tell us more ? What does make you think they are evil ?
MementoMori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 11:47 AM   #9
dawwe
Foot Soldier
 
dawwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 136
I am pretty sure he was quoting the Star Wars prequels.
__________________
dawwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 01:00 PM   #10
Andrew NDB
Weed Whacker
 
Andrew NDB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,098
Saki could maybe justified in killing Yoshi... but killing Tang Shen? What did she do to anybody, except maybe not return his older brother's affections?

Though when you think about it... both the Turtles and Saki were born into ninja clans with vengeance on the brain. The Turtles, to avenge someone they never even met. Saki, his older brother who he would have known quite well.
Andrew NDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 03:40 PM   #11
shredder orokusaki
Mad Scientist
 
shredder orokusaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,395
Yes iam very bad! I kill and kill and i like watching my enemies suffer! I will conquer the world and kill all the turtles!
__________________
I AM THE SHREDDER!!!!!
shredder orokusaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2021, 03:45 PM   #12
shredder orokusaki
Mad Scientist
 
shredder orokusaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Deadman View Post
The Yakuza are a legit criminal organization over in Japan, kinda like the mob over in the States. Not one takes them as the good guys. Same goes for Shredder and the Foot.
Yakuza are my enemies and ihave fought and killed them many times. You must play the Yakuza games if you havent already.(Yakuza 0, 1,2,3,4,5,6, and like a dragon). I still have to finish yakuza 4 and after that i have to play 5 and 6. These game shows that while most yakuza are bad not all of them are bad. But yes i am VERY BAD AND EVIL!
__________________
I AM THE SHREDDER!!!!!
shredder orokusaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 02:54 AM   #13
newfan
Mad Scientist
 
newfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,393
If you are talking about the character overall then we all know he's not exactly a nice guy If you are talking about blame in the original feud then that is his brother, killed Shen for no good reason other than she did not want him. After that it's a chain of revenge.
newfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 01:29 PM   #14
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
Overlord
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 10,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
From my point of view it is the Turtles and Splinter who are evil!
The Turtles were just used by Splinter to kill Shredder.
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 01:46 PM   #15
shredder orokusaki
Mad Scientist
 
shredder orokusaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,395
Exacttly! Most splinters(1987 2003 and 2012) trained the turtles to kill me! Splinter is as evil as me or even more evil than me!
__________________
I AM THE SHREDDER!!!!!
shredder orokusaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 01:58 PM   #16
TigerClaw
Mutant Tiger
 
TigerClaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hialeah, Florida, USA
Posts: 13,795
I love the idea of Oroku Saki being on the good side, Since he's not like the other versions out there, This comic series has been around since 2011 where characters can change direction, and undo any past misdeeds that they caused.

The fact he's going around being there guardian behind the scenes, They need someone like him around when there is trouble they can't deal with.

We had characters who started out as members of the foot clan, Then a couple of years later they switched sides, One good example is Alopex.

Old Hob is a character that that has switch sides many times.
__________________
TigerClaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 02:01 PM   #17
Andrew NDB
Weed Whacker
 
Andrew NDB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,098
"The Shredder" will definitely explore this.
Andrew NDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 04:44 PM   #18
Ninja Toitles
Random Punk
 
Ninja Toitles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 25
Shredder = Evil.
Attempted murder
Crime syndicate
Spikey Armor

Not misunderstood - but evil.

'nuff said
__________________
Ninja Toitles-A-Gram!
Ninja Toitles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 05:16 PM   #19
frank_one
Mad Scientist
 
frank_one's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern Europe
Posts: 1,966
If his brother had not been murdered, he PROBABLY would have never become an evil man. He wasn't born evil anyway, that's what Mirage vol. 1 #1 indirectly tells to us.
frank_one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2021, 05:43 PM   #20
Andrew NDB
Weed Whacker
 
Andrew NDB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,098
All we can gather is that he really loved his older brother. Would he still have joined the Foot and all if he hadn't been slain? Maybe, probably, but he wouldn't have had that driving principle.
Andrew NDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
shredder

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.