Batman and Harley

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Y'know, creepy Harley Quinn rape fantasies aside, I'd be worried if I were DC and I realized BOTH of the latest DCAU releases' biggest talking points were the controversial sex scenes...

[snake]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Y'know, creepy Harley Quinn rape fantasies aside,

You have them too?

[Autbot_Benz]

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Well, I think I figured out what she was looking down at...

There's still an age gap there. She would have been a doctor at Arkham before he started college, I think...

[CyberCubed]

How old is Harley supposed to be, anyway? I always assumed she was somewhere in her mid to late 20's. Since she was a College graduate and psychologist before Joker messed her up.

Also Nightwing is when Dick was in College, so he's probably somewhere around 22-23 in this movie. So there's not much an age gap, only 5 years probably at most.

[Autbot_Benz]

There is also a scene where some guy grabs harley's ass and a bunch of girls dress as scantly clad versions of DC Super Heroines and are waitresses

https://twitter.com/strfires/status/897494450036977666

I think I will skip this movie

[CyberCubed]

Who is this movie even aimed at? It's not for kids, and anyone who grew up with B:TAS in the 90's are now 25-30+ year old adults. Most of whom are likely married with children already.

This feels like something aimed at edgy teens, but the teens of today wouldn't care much for this.

[sdp]

It's aimed at me.

[Spike Spiegel]

The Harley/Nightwing scene was way more tastefully hot than the scenes from Killing Joke. And the bar stuff isn't any more risque than a lot of what they tried in Justice League Unlimited.

Dick graduated college before he became Nightwing, as shown in the TNBA episode "Old Wounds," which puts him in his mid-twenties, maybe??

So Harley has to be pushing 30, at least. I'd say more like mid-thirties.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

As someone who had no problem with the sexy scenes in Assault on Arkham, I gotta say, The Killing Joke and, to a lesser extent, Batman and Harley are kinda WTF. At this point, Bruce Timm really needs to be reined in.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

As someone who had no problem with the sexy scenes in Assault on Arkham, I gotta say, The Killing Joke and, to a lesser extent, Batman and Harley are kinda WTF. At this point, Bruce Timm really needs to be reined in.

I hated the lunch test into the furnace bit, but I absolutely loved the fun epic. Maybe this is more of your interest.



I am protective of my favorites Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon. First Barbara intiates a one nighter on a roof top and Bruce gives in? He could be her father-in-law. Too much The Graduate. Now Harley kidnaps and seduces Dick Grayson? I do not understand the sexualization of Harley and Nightwing coming off as a piece of meat. Harley is supposed to be hung up on The Joker. Is it Batman's #2 and Joker's #2 fooling around supposed to incite conflict for Batman and Joker or cime off as completely put of character all around?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Harley is supposed to be hung up on The Joker.

Actually nowadays Harley is too busy being lesbian lovers with Poision Ivy. Joker is now just treated as an old abusive boyfriend that Harley tried to get away from.

Speaking of that, I wouldn't be surprised if some future movie does focus on Harley/Ivy's relationship and another sex scene at this point. Knowing Bruce Timm he's probably writing on the script already.

[Spike Spiegel]

I just watched the movie and found it to be wildly uneven.

Spoiler:

• Harley farts (loudly) in the Batmobile.
• The Harley/Nightwing sex scene is rather early in the film and creates tension between the two of them.
• Swamp Thing shows up at the end and is rather epic but a little wasted as a cameo.
• This is way more of a comedy than an action cartoon.
• The plot with Poison Ivy/Floronic Man is actually relevant to today's sustainability concerns, but its thematic depth contrasts badly with the jokey bits.
• Slightly gratuitous cursing and sexual references
• This is a nostalgia fueled homage to what the little kid inside of you thinks Batman: The Animated Series was, but laced with contemporary Robot Chicken style comedy.
• The after-credits scene is a zany bit with Harley hosting a reality game show and playing a Dr. Phil expy.
• This completely contradicts DCAU canon unless it takes place after Return of the Joker (which would actually make sense).
• Bruce Timm cameos as Booster Gold.
• Harley has a lot of character development and a few rather touching scenes.

[sdp]

I'm sorry but this is all SJW bullcrap that has crept into geek fandom popular blogs and many of you just repeat what you are reading. Bruce Timm has always been a pervert.

Everything people are getting shocked at now has always been in his shows, always. The difference is before we didn't have these fake fans that only want to "move" their political agenda with our entertainment. Just look at those tweets that Autobot_Benz linked, pure one sided feminist propaganda.

Bruce Timm hasn't "sexualized" harley, the comics did it many many years ago, it's part of her character now and has been for long. Before that, she just wasn't a popular character outside of her small DCAU fandom, sorry but that's a fact. Sexualizing Harley is what made her into an A list villain turn anti-hero. She didn't "rape" Dick either, I just watched the clip and Dick also wanted to. Nothing is shown. Way to overblow a scene with some random pictures and lack of context.

Scenes were girls get objectified at the bar? Most of those are just comic accurate costumes and the "worst offenders" are just "sexy" versions of costumes you see in any halloween store that women like and buy.

Again, all of this stuff was in Timm's previous shows, only because they were for children they had to be more subtle about them, but the fan service and sexual references and implied sex has always been there. Also these DC movies have been out for over a decade and they have always included this type of content, the only difference now is people who are not fans are using it to further their political views.

And since when is violence ok since that seems to get no complains here and sex isn't? What happened to the previous liberal sex not violence they were pushing before?How come when it's gay relationships that they have they don't make a fuzz about it? Why the double standards? I find it disrespectful what that they're calling Timm this monster that should step down when he has done so many cool stories and can continue making them.

As far as character ages, in comics and superhero cartoons it doesn't matter, people age while everyone else stays the same age so in this case both Dick and Harley are both around the same age just like Batman is always 35 years old no matter what. And this is aimed at kids who grew up with the DCAU who now have a more "adult" version of an episode. I assure you no one (well most normal people) are not fapping to these scenes, they're just there to show you this isn't your kids' Batman show and adult things can happen.

[MikeandRaph87]

Check out Harlequinade episode from Batman:TAS. That is proof this is its own thing. Its a similar plot in Bruce and Dick needing Harley's help in locating the villain while on the clock. Also, Dick has quite a negative opinion of Harley Quinn calling her "Zippy".

[Spike Spiegel]

I was just thinking about Timm's body of work--

If any of you have read the "Harley and Ivy" comic book miniseries that he did with Paul Dini a little over a decade ago, this film is a lot like that. Very irreverent, more risque than the old TV show, but the characters and their tropes were quite recognizable.

There was also a very Hitchcockian Two-Face story that he did for "Batman: Black and White" that has a lot of sex and violence. The comic reads like something by Howard Chaykin, but with sleeker, curvier art.

I wasn't offended by the movie, per se. I just wish it was more consistent. If you want to do unabashed fanservice, fine. If you want drama, that's fine, too. But something about the way this story was putting the two together left me slightly unsatisfied. There needed to be more of a balance.

[sdp]

Yeah, I just found these scans of the DCAU from back then and you didn't see people overreacting.


I agree with the inconsistency of these movies, but this is something that has plagued the DTVs since the original one. They just never had a "plan", they didn't know if to make vague adaptations of comics or their own thing when they should've all been connected from the beginning. Sadly when they did that they took the "New 52" Continuity which no one liked so it failed and now we're back to them doing whatever they want with no consistency or room to improve since each movie is different.

More than anything I think the problem is the writing, it isn't as strong as say the DTVs the DCAU had. A lot of this can be because each movie is mostly its own universe they have to reestablish the status quo in each film.

And yes the movies have gratuitous cursing/violence/sex, and while I'm fine with it, my virgin eyes aren't bothered by it, I just wrote along ass post defending it, the problem isn't that but the writing of the rest of the film isn't that great so it seems like those three things are the main selling points which is a shame. I'm still hyped to see another DCAU story though.


edit:well you deleted your post but I had already replied to it.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

This Article/review sums up the movie perfectly

http://io9.gizmodo.com/batman-and-ha...-th-1797949316

That article highlights what's wrong with mainstream "geek culture" websites today.

Instead of having a non-biased review of the movie, you're left with a two sentence description of the film and many paragraphs about the sexualization of Harley Queen.

And it was done on purpose, that review was written with one thing in mind, to be controversial and get people to click on the article. They are bating both SJW and anti-SJW at the same time.

If it were an honest review it would talk about why the movie feels like a a long tv episode instead of leaving us wondering, how the animation was, what the plot was about, the length, entertainment value and then write one paragraph about how they sexualized harley too much, instead of focusing only on it.

Have you even watched the movie yet?

[CyberCubed]

It's times like this I'm glad the old DC shows had to deal with Fox/WB and then Cartoon Network's broadcast standards, or else most of this stuff would have been in those shows too. I mean I know sexual scenes have ALWAYS been there, but its been toned down considerably for obvious reasons that it aired on broadcast TV.

[sdp]

Ironically enough in the BTAS commentary Bruce Timm mentions just that. Sometimes to get stuff past the radar they ended up editing things in a way that it was more powerful than if they had actually shown it. I believe this is also the reason that the Ren and Stimpy adult revival failed, the adult humor worked better when it was implicit in Nickelodeon rather than explicit in ComedyCentral.

Anyone ever watched the Spawn HBO show? If you haven't then do it, it's BTAS tier. The first season includes tons of nudity/graphic violence/cursing to establish that this isn't a "kids superhero cartoon" and you can tell that's why it was getting so much focus, while the second and third are more subtle with them, there's still sex/violence/cursing but it's not overdone and it feels natural. It doesn't mean the first season had too much sex/violence but it just flows better even if I have no problem with it.

[CyberCubed]

Even something aimed at kids like Teen Titans 2003 had fanservice but it was done subtly and gracefully that kids would overlook it and it would just fly over the head of most people. In that episode Robin went on a date with that princess character with the dance, Starfire got jealous and her boobs bounce in a scene. Most kids would not even notice that, but the fanservice was subtle so adult fans if they care for it could see it.

With movies like this it's just too blatant.