Official Mutant Apocalypse Arc Discussion (SERIES FINALE)

[IndigoErth]

Sir Malachi... I had kind of hoped he'd be a new friend of the Turtles. Their one and only friend who isn't involved in fights and is just there to hang out sometimes and let them get their heads off the rest of life one in a while. Oh well.

Actually, I could see him being a friend of theirs in the next one. Do it, Nick. (And forget explaining him, just put a footnote *see previous series.)

[Kit31]

Yeah, they could play Mazes & Mutants.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Redworld96

I'm a shipper and to be honest, I was disappointed at first but now I am not that mad. Yeah it's sad they didn't have the ***** to make it happen on the story of the show, but with the ICK music video, I think it's a victory for both shippers and no-shippers.
You don't like the couple? good for you because the only big thing they did in the show was a kiss on season 3 and after that, they acted like if it never happened.
You like the couple? Good for you because April showed on the show more strong feelings to Donnie than Casey, and you finally have the ICK music video where they kiss again. You can say that, in the non-canon universe of the ICK, they finally got together.
For me it's a victory.

Casey will always have his beloved kiss from Karai

Wait, you can't say balls? Huh.

Anyways, what did you make of that really weird look April gave Casey at the beginning of the episode where they first moved into the pizza place in season 3? I guess it was Serpent Hunt.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Okay hang on, everybody keeps mentioning that they faked out Splinter's death three times before killing him, and I'm wondering... when? The only "fakeout" I remember was in the season 3 finale, and even that one wasn't really a fakeout, since by following it up with the death of everyone and the Earth, they made it pretty clear that it was going to be undone. When were these other fakeouts?

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Okay hang on, everybody keeps mentioning that they faked out Splinter's death three times before killing him, and I'm wondering... when? The only "fakeout" I remember was in the season 3 finale, and even that one wasn't really a fakeout, since by following it up with the death of everyone and the Earth, they made it pretty clear that it was going to be undone. When were these other fakeouts?

what I would call fake outs

- The Left for death after flood(?) in sewer maze, later shown gone insane.
-Falling off a cliff...later shown to meet Rat King.
-Getting stabbed by Shredder. undone instantly after.

I think that was it. Then the REAL death happened...

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Okay hang on, everybody keeps mentioning that they faked out Splinter's death three times before killing him, and I'm wondering... when? The only "fakeout" I remember was in the season 3 finale, and even that one wasn't really a fakeout, since by following it up with the death of everyone and the Earth, they made it pretty clear that it was going to be undone. When were these other fakeouts?

The Invasion. But they showed him alive at the very end, but the turtles thought he was dead.

Season 3, like you said. Was kind of wasteful, since ya know... literally everyone else on Earth died too, mere minutes later. What was the point of Splinter stabbing him? Not a great emotional reaction from the turtles either.

Then in Super Shredder. I thought it was a great moment, but a lot of dullards really thought he was dead. 10 seconds into Darkest Plight showed otherwise.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Jesus Christ dude. It's Sir Malachi. And he's a sparrow, not an owl.

Why is this so hard for you?

I only watched that episode once when it aired back in...2013 or whatever it was, and since his character never appeared again I could never remember what he was called. It's one of the main reasons I'm going to rewatch the series.

In any case, the people who keep whining about mutagen containers going missing when that's basically the backstory for Mondo Gecko, Sir Malachi, the Squirrelnoids, that Mushroom/Fungus mutant from Season 2, etc.

[Redworld96]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Wait, you can't say balls? Huh.

Anyways, what did you make of that really weird look April gave Casey at the beginning of the episode where they first moved into the pizza place in season 3? I guess it was Serpent Hunt.

Let me decide what I want to say and what not

Yeah that is the episode. It is confusing because you can't tell what was that about, but I felt that was just the writers keeping alive the love triangle sub-plot.
I didnt say April didn't show any kind of feeling for Casey, I only say that she showed stronger ones for Donnie. That is my point of view.

[ChosenOne]

I apologize in advance for not reading through the whole thread, but given how so much of it is a discussion on the canonical validity of these episodes, I was understandably put off from doing so... Still, I just wanted to ask if anyone else thought that Raph mentioning "Mirage" was a deliberate shout out and wink to the audience? Again, I'm sorry if this has already been brought up.

I won't even go into how the bit of comic art at the very end almost made me tear up. Can't help but wonder how amazingly compensanting it must be for those artists and creators who are still alive (like, say, Stan Lee) to see their beloved characters treated with such care and kept alive for generations and generations to come. This is what truly makes one immortal. Great stuff!

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Well that fuc kin' sucks.

At least April fared better than Casey, the dude didn't even appear in the opening for season 5

[newfan]

Originally Posted by Redworld96

I'm a shipper and to be honest, I was disappointed at first but now I am not that mad. Yeah it's sad they didn't have the ***** to make it happen on the story of the show, but with the ICK music video, I think it's a victory for both shippers and no-shippers.
You don't like the couple? good for you because the only big thing they did in the show was a kiss on season 3 and after that, they acted like if it never happened.
You like the couple? Good for you because April showed on the show that she has more strong feelings to Donnie than Casey, and you finally have the ICK music video where they kiss again. You can say that, in the universe of the ICK music video, they finally got together.
For me it's a victory.

Casey will always have his beloved kiss from Karai

... don't remind me of the Karai kiss anyway she was poisoning him ... still quite random given those two had no interactions before or after.

As for April and Donnie, gotta say I thought she had more caring feelings towards Donnie than Casey also.
They did tease the fans towards the end with that though which was unfair but I think they may have just been referring to the music video.

Regarding the finale comments, we know which one the writers intended despite nick being instant about the crossover (they said production order doesn't matter in a twitter comment)
Anyway, one is too sad and the other, though I can see why they would choose it with everyone being in it..... Beebop and Rocksteady saved the day, for the turtles series finale.

[Utrommaniac]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I mean, forget Apritello. April's own arc never getting a conclusion was total bunk. All that talk from Ciro at the beginning about April being such a huge character and it went no where.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

April developed and learned to control her psychic powers. That was her arc.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Well that fuc kin' sucks.

All things considered, everything about April having powers was bunk.
Neither the Kraang nor the Utroms had telekinesis like she did. Did they have communicative telepathy? Absolutely - especially the Kraang who were under a hive mind. And those weird frill things. With that being said, April could have been the one to break the hive mind Kraang Prime forced on the Utroms.

There's a whole different path I outlined that could have been better.

Spoiler:

And it all could have started with the body swap episode. With the Utrom trading bodies with Raphael losing its connection with the hive mind and falling to despair realizing what had happened to it. And the turtles having the misfortune of saying "That sucks dude, but our brother's in your body."
It might mean losing the glorious "Kraang is in the body of a monster" scene (my favorite comedy bit in the whole of TMNT), but it would be the start of the Turtles learning something far more nefarious about the Kraang hive mind than they realize. Raphael, meanwhile, is able to see the memories of the Utrom he traded with, but only mere snippets thanks to the hive mind starting to creep back on him. Just a few fleeting memories of youth and freedom before the hive mind set in and it was separated from everyone it knew and loved. After the swap is completed, they then have to contend with everything they've learned during the experience.

All things considered, they might as well just come in contact with the same Kraang constantly. The one that attacked Michelangelo in the alley. The one that took over Metalhead. The body swap one. All the same guy. Eventually they tag it so they can be sure it's safe after they find a way to break the hive mind, especially after developing a relationship with it in the Body Swap episode.

The EPF could be established at the start, with Bishop in tow appearing as a singular anomaly among the Kraang, but April thinks otherwise for reasons she understands as the series goes along.

They could have even spared us a Space Arc and met the Council in season 2 when things still had some hope of plot decency. April would learn the full nature of her heritage, of her human mother's connection to the Utroms. Whose Queen shared April's powers. Who wanted an unsuspecting sabotage to Kraang Prime's imprisonment on her people, and that had to be a human with heightened Utrom mental traits. April would basically just be an Utrom in human flesh.

After spending a few episodes with devastation of that news, she would make herself more than the "weapon" that she was intended to be. She could start to view herself as a savior to a species that was dealt a devastating blow from one of their own kind. She could get connected with her alien heritage. She could make friends with Rook as her new "Irma". She could eventually realize all the deeply personal stuff she shared with Kraang SubPrime under his Irma guise and fear him using them against her one day.

I feel like they wanted to give April "Special Powers™" to make her stand out from other Aprils and that was they way they decided to do it. Even though her established other half of genetics showed none of the traits she had. Maybe if there was an antagonist that was telepathic and a fully human April said "hey that's really freaking cool, I want to do that!"

And if that's what they REALLY wanted, let's establish all that before. That April has trouble fitting in. That she has a weird pink spot on her back or stomach that she can't explain. That she feels some kind of fuzzy connection with the Kraang ("Like television static") that becomes crystal clear when she's with the Utroms. That gluten feels awful (a running gag they could have really continued since Kraang can't seem to handle it either ). That she has really, really weird skin tags on the top of her head - like the telepathic frills.

Before defeating Shredder for the last time, they would muscle down and break the hive mind on the Utroms. They reunite with their "Special Friend" Utrom and April helps him find whatever friends and family remains for him - since surely a lot of them might have died for various reasons. They even rely on the Utroms a little bit for defeating Shredder.


AND NO APRILTELLO TO BE SEEN.

And this is all ideas off the top of my head.

[TheBlueTurtle1]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

there are so many things that never got resolved on the show since the begining, like what happened to SpiderByte, Snakeweed, the Punk Frogs.

It's a shame, but am I right in thinking Timmy's story never got resolved?

[Redworld96]

Originally Posted by newfan

... don't remind me of the Karai kiss anyway she was poisoning him ... still quite random given those two had no interactions before or after.

As for April and Donnie, gotta say I thought she had more caring feelings towards Donnie than Casey also.
They did tease the fans towards the end with that though which was unfair but I think they may have just been referring to the music video.

Regarding the finale comments, we know which one the writers intended despite nick being instant about the crossover (they said production order doesn't matter in a twitter comment)
Anyway, one is too sad and the other, though I can see why they would choose it with everyone being in it..... Beebop and Rocksteady saved the day, for the turtles series finale.

Hahaha the kiss is not a big deal because Karai was possessed, probably she doesn't remember what she did, or just she doesn't care about it. Casey is the only one that still likes that kiss, but that's not Karai's business

[mexichrist83]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

All things considered, everything about April having powers was bunk.

April is the biggest aspect about that show that I wish we had more explanation/closure. Perhaps amidst the standalone episodes and numerous overly long hiatuses I don't recall if these questions were definitively answered i the series but:

What exactly was April?

What was the source of her abilities?

Why was she so important to the Kraang?

I don't want headcanon or theories. Were these questions actually answered in the series and if so what episodes were they answered?

[Tarris Vaal]

Utrommaniac - that is an inspired idea sir. My hats off to you (I wont repeat the bit in spoilers as its quite long, but a very good idea - and could have blended with the other arcs pretty well)

That said, I was wondering how long before the anti shippers started

Honestly, shipper or not for April/Don - It doesn't matter - the fact remains that it was an arc since episode 1. It was a relatively important arc for both April and Donatello (and arguably Casey) for much of season 1 and 2 before being sidelined.

From a writing perspective, starting an arc that strong and that lasts so long is not something you don't finish properly. It is literally the longest running story arc of the entire show. I'm surprised if they were going to quietly reduce it to just the ICK video, that they didn't just conclude the arc in 'Power inside her' and then just ignore the aftermath - at least it would have been a better close for it.

Anyway, whats done is done. Its been left in the fans hands now, which is quietly terrifying But its probably the best example of why the Apocalypse arc is such a strangely unsatisfying finale.

[Redworld96]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Honestly, shipper or not for April/Don - It doesn't matter - the fact remains that it was an arc since episode 1. It was a relatively important arc for both April and Donatello (and arguably Casey) for much of season 1 and 2 before being sidelined.

From a writing perspective, starting an arc that strong and that lasts so long is not something you don't finish properly. It is literally the longest running story arc of the entire show. I'm surprised if they were going to quietly reduce it to just the ICK video, that they didn't just conclude the arc in 'Power inside her' and then just ignore the aftermath - at least it would have been a better close for it.

Anyway, whats done is done. Its been left in the fans hands now, which is quietly terrifying But its probably the best example of why the Apocalypse arc is such a strangely unsatisfying finale.

Thas is the frustrating part. If you didn't want to go nowhere with this issue, then do not add the idea of Donnie (or any turtle in general) having a crush on April O'Neil since the first episode and then keeping it alive until the very end. They had A foot too big to close that door, but they didn't (instead, April kisses him and things gets more confusing). It was 5 years teasing all the time for nothing. To be honest, I think writers even didn't know what to do with this sub-plot until the last moment. And they chose to add it in a funny music video and forget it.

[MrTMNT2012]

Same As It Never Was, indeed. :'(

Good finale. The final image of the Turtles and Splinter together just as they were from Rise of The Turtles brought it home for me!

[CyberCubed]

Are people seriously going on about Don's crush on April like it was a real plot point? It was a running gag the writers played around with and April made it clear plenty of times she did not see Don romantically. What the hell were people expecting?

Thank god those horrid fanfic ideas of Don/April getting together and having a mutant Turtle kid never happened in canon. I was actually fearing that was a possibility at some point due to this time skip, thank god it wasn't.

Originally Posted by TheBlueTurtle1

It's a shame, but am I right in thinking Timmy's story never got resolved?

They show his body/container at the bottom of the sludge pit Raph was fighting in when he fell under. He's dead.

[Redworld96]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Are people seriously going on about Don's crush on April like it was a real plot point? It was a running gag the writers played around with and April made it clear plenty of times she did not see Don romantically. What the hell were people expecting?

Chill out buddy. You keep criticizing those people who think about this topic and you keep insisting that we must not talk about this, but you like it or not, it's a topic of conversation and discussion, and not everyone has to think the same way as you. I will say the same thing some people told you during those last years, just ignore this topic if you don't like people still talking about this