Official Episode Discussion S5 Ep 04: End Times

[TigerClaw]

I thought it was great episode, Nice to see TigerClaw coming to his sensing and realizing, What Shredder has done was really bad, And siding with the Turtles in the end, and calling for a truce.

Its said this was his last appearance, Such a great character, Hopefully we'll see other versions of TigerClaw in future shows, Perhaps the new series in 2018? We can only hope.

[Cyndaquilfan123]

I really enjoyed this episode. Loved the Ghostbusters stuff too.

[TigerClaw]

I replied to Eric Bauza and he responded back to me.
https://twitter.com/bauzilla/status/851150671973830656

I hope some lucky up and coming voice artist gets a chance to voice TC in another series!!

I hope we see TigerClaw make another appearance in the 2018 series, Since he's the breakout character of this generation of TMNT.

[Vegita-San]

honestly, the stuff this silly show chooses to remember...

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?
instead of someone like the rat king?

And Shredders motivations..ugh. first he wants to rule, then he obeys, then he turns and goes back to hell? it's like they forgot he was part of the plot midway through. his sudden turn around made no real sense at all.


oy. i hope the next show is more well run.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?

A lot of people knew Ho Chan was returning, there was an Instagram post about it last year.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I hope we see TigerClaw make another appearance in the 2018 series, Since he's the breakout character of this generation of TMNT.

Old Hob is more of a breakout character than Tiger Claw; hell, Alopex as well since she's appeared in this series and debuted in IDW.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

honestly, the stuff this silly show chooses to remember...

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?
instead of someone like the rat king?

They had Rat King return in Darkest Plight, which was at the end of season 4. James Wong was also doing voice recordings for this season, which specifically seems to be this episode.

Unless you mean you wanted Rat King to reappear again? Then I'd agree with you, but your writing makes it hard to decipher what you want at points.

[IndigoErth]

That's a shame if that's it for Tiger Claw. I'd hoped we'd at least see a little of the direction that he, Fishface, and Baxter (Rahzar is gone again?) go from here.


Really wish the ghostly part of this was far longer. With the glowing ghost skeletons and all, that would be fun for an entire arc.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Old Hob is more of a breakout character than Tiger Claw; hell, Alopex as well since she's appeared in this series and debuted in IDW.



They had Rat King return in Darkest Plight, which was at the end of season 4. James Wong was also doing voice recordings for this season, which specifically seems to be this episode.

Unless you mean you wanted Rat King to reappear again? Then I'd agree with you, but your writing makes it hard to decipher what you want at points.

I meant breakout character from the nick animated series, I have a feeling this character will make some appearance at some point, maybe in the new series, or IDW comics? Who knows.

Isn't TigerClaw appearing in the IDW comics based on the Nick universe?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

honestly, the stuff this silly show chooses to remember...

Still trolling?

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?
instead of someone like the rat king?

They just brought Rat King back last season, genius. In a Super Shredder episode, no less.

And Shredders motivations..ugh. first he wants to rule, then he obeys, then he turns and goes back to hell? it's like they forgot he was part of the plot midway through. his sudden turn around made no real sense at all.

Are you literally posting garbage on purpose now, or is a children's cartoon too hard for you to understand? Shredder was under control of Kavaxas, after he no longer was he was able to break free and send them both back to the netherworld. Shredder's "We don't belong here!" line obviously implies his spirit/mind/dead body/etc. doesn't feel like he has a place in the living world.

oy. i hope the next show is more well run.

Hopefully you never post in the episode threads for the next cartoon.

[TigerClaw]

I remember several months ago, Those around here thinking that TigerClaw go against his master right at the end of Season 3, But it only took this episode from Season 5 for TigerClaw to be redeemed.

[kelligrafie]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

The very point of an arc, writers, is to show a story building up over time. If one episode feels too packed but the other three aren't quite as packed, your first impulse should be to disperse these elements into other episodes, or even add an episode if it gets this bad.

Mmm they don't really have 'time' though do they? It's the last season, they've got seven stories to fit over 20 episodes which equates to less than 3 episodes per story. And they have a definitive deadline for the season, with the next series coming out so it's not like the team can faff around with re-writes or any major pacing issues.

Plus one of the biggest problems I think with this show is sometimes they stretched out plots and certain character developments so much that we forgot about them or they just didn't have the same impact that they could've/should've done.

So in a way I'm glad that we're getting things wrapped up so quick.




Mikey and Splinter were AWESOME in this episode.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

Mmm they don't really have 'time' though do they? It's the last season, they've got seven stories to fit over 20 episodes which equates to less than 3 episodes per story. And they have a definitive deadline for the season, with the next series coming out so it's not like the team can faff around with re-writes or any major pacing issues.

Plus one of the biggest problems I think with this show is sometimes they stretched out plots and certain character developments so much that we forgot about them or they just didn't have the same impact that they could've/should've done.

Still no excuse for the writers to back themselves in a corner like this. I'll use Leo as an example. His place in this arc was touched upon in the first episode nicely. The next two episodes, we didn't get any of it. We didn't get anything on him until one random scene in this episode, then nothing, and then again in one of the last scenes. They had three episodes to stretch this out and properly allow the story some time to develop, but they chose to do it in one, which is completely fine if we're only talking about the Leo arc. But we're not. We're talking about all the other sh*t they sandwiched into this one episode that could've easily been done without and just put in other episodes.

Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.

It doesn't matter how much 'time' they have. Good writing can save the pacing of a story like this. They could have led the characters into the events of this story better in previous episodes, particularly #3 (an episode that did NOT take my heart and will probably be goin' to jail), or Auman could have just not put so much sh*t into this episode.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

Still no excuse for the writers to back themselves in a corner like this. I'll use Leo as an example. His place in this arc was touched upon in the first episode nicely. The next two episodes, we didn't get any of it. We didn't get anything on him until one random scene in this episode, then nothing, and then again in one of the last scenes. They had three episodes to stretch this out and properly allow the story some time to develop, but they chose to do it in one, which is completely fine if we're only talking about the Leo arc. But we're not. We're talking about all the other sh*t they sandwiched into this one episode that could've easily been done without and just put in other episodes.

Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.

It doesn't matter how much 'time' they have. Good writing can save the pacing of a story like this. They could have led the characters into the events of this story better in previous episodes, particularly #3 (an episode that did NOT take my heart and will probably be goin' to jail), or Auman could have just not put so much sh*t into this episode.

It's times like these that make me wish we had a trend for TMNT. I got it: #fireauman
__________________

All joking aside, this easily could've been a five episode arc. Maybe focus on the resurrection of Shredder and have be tough to defeat. (Although Leo struggling against him this episode is off putting) The end could literally have all the creatures arisen as Ho Chan and Tatsu almost kill the secondary team when Splinter shows up. Cue "to be continued" and then handle the Netherworld material. It would give much more breathing room, especially if we had 26 episodes this season instead of the 20.

However, that's not the case and it suffers greatly.

[oldmanwinters]

Observations:

Zombie Super Shredder has worms? Nice callback to Mirage, perhaps?

Loved Xever's little exposition flashback. I like that fish.

Tigerclaw very perceptive about Zombie Super Shredder being more of a puppet than a true resurrection. Makes me wonder if the same was true of Rahzar since he sided with Hot Head in the final battle.

Rocksteady blew another 80s reference: "Let's make like tree and..."

I really like the popcorn popper feature of Donatello's ghostbusting proton packs. Seems like they at least owed an explanation how he learned to make supernatural weapons besides just getting a random reading of Kavaxas.

I don't quite understand why the Turtles view Casey as largely incompetent yet keep bringing him along for missions. Mikey at least threw him some love. Also, who would have thought "So Metal!" Casey would be crybaby about "dead things?"

Seems like there might have been a rush edit between when Karai jumps on Super Shredder and the next shot where he's falling down the pit.

Mikey pieces the amulet's three pieces together using his toes.

That "Kitty Jones" billboard has seen a lot of action during this series, but it's still standing!

Shredder seemed to have a brief moment of redemption when he jumps on Kavaxas and declares "We don't belong here!" before shoving them both back to the netherworld. Nice to see him regain a shred of dignity after becoming a Hot Head's zombie puppet.

Disappointed that there's no actual epilogue between Tigerclaw and Turtles, just summarized off-camera, especially if we never see him again.

Ghost Splinter becomes temporarily tangible? Wha???

I didn't think the sunset was THAT amazing, but it makes sense in context and mirrors the conclusion to season 4.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.

yep.

but, god forbid i point stuff like this out ;o).

it just feels like an excuse to have creepy things in the show.

The Fish Face thing was as much a COMPLETE 180 as Shredder suddenly shoving Hot head in the hole. I half expected donnie to say 'here fishface, have some anti mutagen' just to end that characters plot line for good ;o)

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I remember several months ago, Those around here thinking that TigerClaw go against his master right at the end of Season 3, But it only took this episode from Season 5 for TigerClaw to be redeemed.

he wasn't really redeemed. he got pushed out and had second thoughts on ending the world. if he was second in command he probably still would have went along with the plan. hence, probably, temporary truce.

with shows like this, he'll probably go right back to being a bad guy next episode.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

he wasn't really redeemed. he got pushed out and had second thoughts on ending the world. if he was second in command he probably still would have went along with the plan. hence, probably, temporary truce.

with shows like this, he'll probably go right back to being a bad guy next episode.

I wonder if he's still in control of the Foot Clan during the truce.

I can see near the end of the season, Karai getting back control of the Foot Clan and turning them good.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

My favourite thing about the episode Is the ending with Karai hugging Splinter. It felt like a proper send off to his character while in Requiem it felt somewhat less conclusive. If Splinter doesn't appear after this (excluding the flashback episode) I would be fully satisfied.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.
.

Why on earth would this bother you? Splinter never came back to life, his spirit was there and he said goodbye to his family at the end. How could this not have been made more clear?

And you're seriously saying Leatherhead being there, Ho-chan, or the stuff with Fishface is "rushed" when they were all just there to be minor supporting characters in the first place? How the hell is this different than when the 4kids series did the same thing shoving Leatherhead in a whole bunch of Shredder episodes where he barely did anything but a small fight scene? I don't even understand why the hell you keep saying, "bad writing?" This doesn't have to be expanded on for 20 minutes or episodes, they gave us a huge compact story and the characters got their resolutions.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why on earth would this bother you? Splinter never came back to life, his spirit was there and he said goodbye to his family at the end. How could this not have been made more clear?

And you're seriously saying Leatherhead being there, Ho-chan, or the stuff with Fishface is "rushed" when they were all just there to be minor supporting characters in the first place? How the hell is this different than when the 4kids series did the same thing shoving Leatherhead in a whole bunch of Shredder episodes where he barely did anything but a small fight scene? I don't even understand why the hell you keep saying, "bad writing?" This doesn't have to be expanded on for 20 minutes or episodes, they gave us a huge compact story and the characters got their resolutions.

You answered your own question. None of it matters. There's no real reason for any of it. Bare bones, this episode is a story about Kavaxas winning control and unleashing his wrath and the Turtles stopping him. We also have to include the thing with Zombie Shredder because that's been built up over the course of the arc. But then, suddenly, we bring Splinter in for no reason (keep in mind, Kavaxas is releasing the underworld, and where Splinter went to at the end of the episode definitely was not the underworld, so why he was even there in the first place is beyond me) and somehow that's important, because it takes up a couple scenes. Then, we have the thing with Fishface and his rather uneventful complete 180 turn, AND we get a buttload of disconnected exposition about the minions from him that could've easily been inserted in any other episode.

Then there's that whole mess with Shredder. He served no real purpose in this story at all. He could've not been brought back at all and the story really wouldn't be different in any way. Someone must've realized this, so they just lazily inserted all the little specific things Kavaxas needed to do to unleash his power (instead of, I don't know, building it up over the last three episodes), with resurrecting an evil warrior applying to Shredder. I can't be the only one who thought this came clean out of nowhere and just came off as pure lazy.

Things like Leatherhead and Karai being randomly inserted into the story clean out of nowhere are minor complaints, but they take up time which creates problems for the main part of the story. Then, of course, there's the whole thing with Leo and Splinter, which also comes off as rather forced for reasons I've already gone over in previous posts.

As for the 2k3 series, the difference between that and this is that was simply bringing in Leatherhead for seemingly no reason, which is fine seeing as how it didn't impact the final product. Every single thing I have just mentioned (obviously, not including randomly bringing Leatherhead in, although it was still lazily handled) negatively impacts this episode in some significant manner.

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

It's times like these that make me wish we had a trend for TMNT. I got it: #fireauman

That made me laugh harder than it probably should have. It is times like these, though, I have to ask why it was so easy for them to fire Ventimilia and Sternin after one season, but Auman can stick around for four. Nothing against the guy personally, but it is something I wonder from time to time.