Is 2003's TMNT The Most Pure Expression of TMNT?

[PizzaPower1985]

Is this show the best TMNT could ever be in mass media? It's got the Mirage influence in its stories. It's far more serious than the FW toon and 2K12, because P. Laird was involved. It's truly an "ALL-AGES" take on the franchise and is far more accessible to most people than the comics. It's also the show that has less derision among fans, compared to FW or 2K12.

Will there ever be a more accessible, more pure expression of TMNT in mass media?

[The Turtle Terminator]

Since Laird was so heavily involved throughout production, seasons 1-4 are probably the ?purest? versions of the property outside of Mirage. The stories for NT, FF and BTTS are quite heavily removed to what came before (the copy-paste aspect of the Mirage stories being remade and animated), but S1-4 are probably the best way to get a grip on what Mirage made without reading the comics themselves

[ABrown]

Of the five tv series(es) that have aired, it's without question my favorite. And yes, I would consider it to be the truest representation of what the franchise is. When it comes to films, the original movie is what I consider the "definitive" version, as I mentioned in the "Your Definitive or Ideal TMNT?" thread (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=62661). The 2007 CGI film is pretty much right there with it. And the Batman vs Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film is fairly close as well.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It is not a direct adaptation of the Mirage Comics, except some issues. But in spirit, it is. (as much as Western children's cartoons and comics allow)

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

Is this show the best TMNT could ever be in mass media? It's got the Mirage influence in its stories. It's far more serious than the FW toon and 2K12, because P. Laird was involved. It's truly an "ALL-AGES" take on the franchise and is far more accessible to most people than the comics. It's also the show that has less derision among fans, compared to FW or 2K12.

Will there ever be a more accessible, more pure expression of TMNT in mass media?

I would probably answer with a straight YES.
Not only the show is a (almost) direct adaptation of the comics, but it was great how itself was developed.
I always had the feeling that the show "grew up" just like the one who watches it.
It's funky and goofy at first, but gets more serious and deep as episodes pass by.
Very few cartoons did this thing correctly, and one of them sure it's the 4kids adaptation.
The 2k12 version was serious too, but it was out of context most of the times, and felt more "edgy" than serious.

Also, what do you mean for:

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

It's also the show that has less derision among fans

?

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by D-ray

I would probably answer with a straight YES.
Not only the show is a (almost) direct adaptation of the comics, but it was great how itself was developed.
I always had the feeling that the show "grew up" just like the one who watches it.
It's funky and goofy at first, but gets more serious and deep as episodes pass by.
Very few cartoons did this thing correctly, and one of them sure it's the 4kids adaptation.
The 2k12 version was serious too, but it was out of context most of the times, and felt more "edgy" than serious.

Also, what do you mean for:
?

Well, a lot of TMNT fans (particularly older fans) don't care for very much of the '87 toon and it seems there are also those (myself included) who don't like the 2K12 toon either. 2003 is less polarizing and divides fandom less than the other shows. I just mean that 2003 seems to have the most fans of any show as it seems to commit less sins.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Mirage will always be the purest version of the TMNT. TMNT unlike most other comic book characters like Batman, Superman and Daredevil, has started off pretty much 'fully formed', with everything established straight away, and very little has changed over the years. Batman started out as a rip-off of The Shadow, carried a gun, wore purple gloves and smoked a pipe. Superman started off only fighting gangsters, couldn't fly and the symbol on his chest looked nothing like the familiar emblem has since the 60s. Daredevil started off wearing yellow and black, wisecracked like Spider-Man and had no Film Noir influences until Frank Miller re-worked the character in the 80s.

TMNT however, everything was there from day one. Everything else just does a different version of TMNT #1. 2003 TMNT is the closest outside the 90s movie that we will probably ever get of a pure Mirage adaptation.

[frank_one]

Plot wise, yes, but the style is totally different from the original material.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

Well, a lot of TMNT fans (particularly older fans) don't care for very much of the '87 toon and it seems there are also those (myself included) who don't like the 2K12 toon either. 2003 is less polarizing and divides fandom less than the other shows. I just mean that 2003 seems to have the most fans of any show as it seems to commit less sins.

Ah ok! I got what you mean. Yeah the 2003 fanbase is probably in the middle, even tho I don't see that many fans today.
Even tho I've never seen any kind of inside rivalry in the TMNT fanbases. Maybe just a bit in the 2012 one, but is VERY light and they just joke about I think (like who is the best turtle or who's the best "ship" [abit cringie but we were all young]).
The 1987 is pretty chill too I guess, since they are more attached to nostalgia and don't have any real reason to discuss with eachother.

Originally Posted by fran_one

Plot wise, yes, but the style is totally different from the original material.

The style of what?
I mean, the drawing, the way the plot is settled, the characters adaptations... ?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by D-ray

I always had the feeling that the show "grew up" just like the one who watches it.

Except the final seasons.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Plot wise, yes, but the style is totally different from the original material.

Tonally it is night and day, as well. Never have I been as furious as when I watched the 2003 version of "Return to New York."

[wpugh2424]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Tonally it is night and day, as well. Never have I been as furious as when I watched the 2003 version of "Return to New York."

Just curious what u mean by this? Thanks!!

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Except the final seasons.

The fifth or the seventh?
Well, tecnically I can apply it to both.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Never have I been as furious as when I watched the 2003 version of "Return to New York."

Hehe, why furious?

[Leo656]

This is gonna be awesome.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by wpugh2424

Just curious what u mean by this? Thanks!!

I mean trying to cram a 13 part epic into 3 silly episodes? Like the mob was never fighting the Foot, the Foot was fighting itself for control in Shredders absence and they were out to kill Leo in particular for killing Shredder, for starters.

Plus the entire message of the Turtles realizing they were fighting Splinter's battles for him was lost.
"I'll die for him but I don't live for him."

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by D-ray

Hehe, why furious?

Because they took something that is tonally dirty and angry and triumphant and made it into camp and slapstick nonsense. With a bunch of whirling dervish toy things and no teeth.

I know, I know, "B-b-but they showed Shredder's head getting chopped off, just like in the comics!"

Ch'rell's robo-suit, you mean? "B-b-but we didn't KNOW it was the body suit at the time! It's edgy, man!"

Etc., etc.. No. Just no.

[sdp]

I'm sure we could get another adaptation eventually that is "truer" to mirage, however I don't think we'll ever see another piece of media with less studio interference. Despite all the shenanigan and meddling in 2k3 Laird did have a say and creative control so there was less studio meddling than if they ever make a "true" mirage adaptation.

Even if a theoretical mirage adaptation happened that was faithful, it was still an idea that was pitched and greenlighted with that in mind and the studio will meddle in what they want, here Laird pitched a cartoon for kids and didn't let there being too much meddling. I hope I worded this right, typed it quickly

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by sdp

I'm sure we could get another adaptation eventually that is "truer" to mirage, however I don't think we'll ever see another piece of media with less studio interference. Despite all the shenanigan and meddling in 2k3 Laird did have a say and creative control so there was less studio meddling than if they ever make a "true" mirage adaptation.

Even if a theoretical mirage adaptation happened that was faithful, it was still an idea that was pitched and greenlighted with that in mind and the studio will meddle in what they want, here Laird pitched a cartoon for kids and didn't let there being too much meddling. I hope I worded this right, typed it quickly

I don't think a TMNT project with any studio interference has any chance of being close to Mirage now that Laird is gone but I agree with the rest of your post. If Eastman got involved it would have even less of a chance because he doesn't really have any power anymore and even if he made suggestions they'd probably ignore him anyway.

[sdp]

But if you pitch a show "Let's do a mirage adaptation" and the studios green light it, it'll obviously be more faithful than say 2k3 but there would be tons of studio interference and not letting the people involve have full creative control despite being more "faithful".

Laird's TMNT 2k3 might not be as faithful to mirage as a future adaptation could theoretically be but he had enough creative control to do whatever he wanted in a kids tv show. Yes, 4Kids and Playmates had influence too but they would fight between each other, nowadays that would never happen, it's what the studio wants it to be.

So even if not as faithful to mirage, it's as pure as TMNT can get outside of the original Mirage run since Laird had a lot of creative control and he's one of the co-creators. Any future adaptation will only be that, an adaptation with studio meddling even if "truer" to mirage.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by sdp

But if you pitch a show "Let's do a mirage adaptation" and the studios green light it, it'll obviously be more faithful than say 2k3 but there would be tons of studio interference and not letting the people involve have full creative control despite being more "faithful".

Laird's TMNT 2k3 might not be as faithful to mirage as a future adaptation could theoretically be but he had enough creative control to do whatever he wanted in a kids tv show. Yes, 4Kids and Playmates had influence too but they would fight between each other, nowadays that would never happen, it's what the studio wants it to be.

So even if not as faithful to mirage, it's as pure as TMNT can get outside of the original Mirage run since Laird had a lot of creative control and he's one of the co-creators. Any future adaptation will only be that, an adaptation with studio meddling even if "truer" to mirage.

Fair enough.