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Old 02-15-2018, 08:42 PM   #81
ProphetofGanja
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Papenbrook, even if your phrasing was a little lacking I agree with what you've been saying.

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Shoddy reporting!?

I'll have you know, you uninformed liberal woman, that Alex Jones is the only hero brave enough to warn us about how THEY TURNED THE FRIGGIN' FROGS GAY!!!!
I heard a crazy theory that Alex Jones is a cloned and/or brainwashed Bill Hicks. If you want to go down that rabbit hole you can find a whole lot of allegations about the military-entertainment complex online, demonic cults and sex rituals and systematic child abuse and CIA-sponsored drugging and brainwashing. Creepy to even wonder about. Either it's real and there are super ****ed up people out there doing all these things, or its fake and there are super ****ed up people out there believing in or making up these crazy things. Either way, super ****ed up.

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If you're talking about the number of school shootings that stat is misleading. I would be careful looking at information given how polarizing this topic is, especially bc people tend to mislead stats to push their agenda. One of the so called "school shootings" was an adult who committed suicide in the parking lot, another was an accidental discharge of an officer's weapon. I will try to find the source to prove my point, but that stat is misleading. But regardless one school shooting is too many.
Oh word? Thanks, yeah context for statistics is always important. But yeah, still too many

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This is not a republican or democratic issue imo. Obama had a super-majority congress in his first two years in office and could have passed a law for stricter gun control or probably could have wrote an executive order on the subject. Trump hopefully will do something, but I doubt it.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:11 PM   #82
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Sadly I think it has become a part of the culture, that's why the US is the only place where this is an alarming problem and not isolated cases. It's basically almost impossible to stop at this point.

That doesn't mean it can't be controlled a little better and yes more restrictions should pass and likely will pass because eventually even the gun nuts will realize it's out of control even if it still takes a long while longer. This is very much so a political issue since it's what's stopping any legislation to get passed.

It's a scary time to go to school in the US right now since you never know. My school had plenty of crazy anti-social people who didn't care about anything and were just wasted youth but school shooting culture wasn't a thing yet, not in the levels that it is now. I still remember the first few years after colombine many of my classmates would not go to school on the anniversary because there was always fear it could happen again on that day and we would have police in the school that day.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:18 PM   #83
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Clues to the Mind of Florida School Shooter

“Latest school shootings psychology study uncovers patterns suggesting solutions.“

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Eric Madfis, an Associate*Professor of Criminal Justice at the University of Washington, Tacoma, argues that there’s a tendency for the mass media to portray school shootings as pointless, random and motiveless tragedies*when they are not.
Instead, Eric Madfis argues in his investigation entitled, "In Search of Meaning: Are School Rampage Shootings Random and Senseless Violence?"*that clear patterns emerge.

For example, his review of the evidence uncovers that most school rampage shooters formulate plans at least two days before launching their attack.
Eric Madfis’ analysis, recently published in the Journal of Psychology, finds that many school shooters develop and fantasize about their schemes for weeks or even months before executing them. For example, the Columbine killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, invested more than a year elaborately organizing their attack.

Madfis’ examination of thwarted school rampage attacks also found extensive planning, including "hit lists" and even "do not kill" records, suicide notes, maps of schools with attack tactics drawn on them, plots on social media websites, and inquiries into previous rampage shootings.
Strategies even included details such as who was to be purposely saved and meticulous plans for what order events should evolve on the day itself.
Eric Madfis dismisses the popular depiction of mass shootings as the result of someone out of the blue “snapping” and committing violence on a spur-of-the-moment.

Extensive planning indicates that rampage attacks serve purposes. These also fall into clear repeated patterns, including vengeance, infamy seeking, a need for a sense of macho power, often with a background of long-term internal discord and interpersonal defeats.
The alleged perpetrator of the Florida school shooting, Nikolas Cruz may seem at first glance to violate the idea of patterning of school shootings, as he was 19 years old and had in fact, it is so far reported, left school, and it appears was attending adult education classes, and apparently had a job at a local dollar store.

But a study entitled, "Economic insecurity and the rise in gun violence at US schools", examined school shootings between 1990-2013, finding that the rate of gun violence heightened from 2007 to 2013. *
The research, published in the journal Nature Human Behaviour, found periods of increased shooting rates are significantly correlated with increases in unemployment rates.*
For some particularly insecure kids, the disturbance*of replacing*the relative security of*school or college, with*the scarily unknown world of unemployment,*when the economy nose-dives, possibly*becomes too much.*

It's been reported that*Nikolas Cruz was adopted, but*that his adoptive parents had both died, his adoptive mother passing relatively recently. In these circumstances maybe his last school represented a*kind of surrogate family which was particularly unbearable to lose?
Since 2007*more shootings have been occurring at colleges, maybe because*a college education is no longer a guarantee of employment.*
A*breakdown in*the school-to-work transition is also more likely to affect whites whose graduation rates have historically been higher.
The authors of this study, a team of academics from Northwestern University, led by Adam Robert Pah and Luis Amaral conclude that increasing uncertainty in the school-to-work transition contributes to school shootings.

Eric Madfis points out that mass murder is the only form of homicide in the U.S. that is committed by non-Hispanic whites in numbers disproportionately high relative to their share of the population.
Not all school rampages have been committed by whites. Oregon’s Umpqua Community College shooter was biracial, the Red Lake Senior High School killer was Native American, the Virginia Tech shooter was Korean American, and the shooter at the Tasso da Silveira Municipal School was Brazilian. But the majority of rampage killers have been white.
Eric Madfis also points out that school rampages also reveal a clear pattern in terms of the types of communities and schools which suffer from them most frequently.
While the majority of American school gun violence generally occurs in urban areas, rampage school shootings are much more likely to occur at suburban and rural schools in less populated, less diverse communities, located in more socially and politically conservative neighborhoods.
International school rampages also follow this pattern, occurring more often in small towns or villages with tightknit communities.

The humiliating closeness and pressure to conform in small towns might therefore be implicated, particularly as attacks tend to take place where the school staff and student body are intolerant of differences, when issues of bullying and marginalization are not addressed by the school culture.

Another possible emerging pattern is an educational environment of punitive zero tolerance which might discourage students from confiding in trusted adults when they hear crucial information about impending threats of violence.
This last point of school culture opens the door to changes which may represent the best chances of preventing these future tragedies, as those who know most about students are classmates. The most valuable intelligence sources on future perpetrators are not teachers or parents, so how to educate the student body to better screen and inform?
Just as mistakes in preventing*terrorist outrages have been diagnosed as intelligence failures, are school shootings analogous predicaments?
Intelligence agencies like the CIA have encountered difficulty garnering information from foreign communities they have struggled to infiltrate, so the problem of school shootings could partly be framed as a similar issue around intelligence gathering.
Getting a better sense before someone ‘cracks’, of who is most vulnerable, might require a closer relationship between the authorities and the student body.
While we know little as yet of the alleged perpetrator, Nikolas Cruz, it does appear that he was adopted, which could in itself be a difference which might become a target for ostracism or bullying.
He has now been described by former classmates talking to the press as "weird" and a "loner". He had apparently been expelled from the high school for "disciplinary reasons", and was also apparently told he couldn’t bring a backpack on campus.
Students at the school have been talking to various media with reported comments such as; "everyone predicted" the shooting, "Honestly, a lot of people were saying it was gonna be him."
Classmates have also been telling various news stations that kids at the school "joked around" that Nikolas Cruz would be the one to "shoot up the school".
Another student has indicated that the suspect is "troubled", while a further comment from a fellow student seems particularly apposite; "how tired he was of everyone picking on him and the staff doing nothing about it".
That there is something about school culture which needs addressing is further hinted at by a study entitled, "Alone and adrift: The association between mass school shootings, school size, and student support",*investigating*twenty-two mass school shooting incidents*between January 1995 and June 2014.
Schools where mass shootings occurred had significantly higher on average student numbers.

The research, published in The Social Science Journal also found*students who committed mass school shootings were significantly more likely to have previously attended a school with a smaller student body and/or a lower than state average student-teacher ratio.
The authors, psychologists Abigail Baird, Emma Roellke and Debra Zeifman from Vassar College*conclude that transitioning from a smaller, more supportive school to a larger, more anonymous school may exacerbate pre-existing psychological difficulties among potential school shooters.
Eric Madfis argues that the huge media attention school rampage attacks inevitably attract, distorts public perception over the true likelihood of these events. For example, he quotes statistics that compared to their homes and the streets, in the USA, schools remain the safest places for young people.

Eric Madfis points out the risk of homicide for school-age youth is roughly 226 times greater outside of school than at school, while only about 1 in 2 million school-age youth will die from homicide or suicide at school each year, and furthermore, that any given school can expect to experience a student homicide about once every 6,000 years.

Yet media coverage may be inadvertently be delivering a psychological trap, a cycle that makes a school shooting more likely.
Because these rare but devastating events are often used to justify heightened punitive school discipline including more zero tolerance policies, such as automatic suspensions, expulsions, and arrests.
This may be driving a wedge between the authorities and the community of students that are being ever more "policed" and "punished", with adverse consequences in terms of building relationships which would produce the valuable intelligence needed to stop future attacks.
The reality is there has long been a "generation gap" with adult authorities struggling to understand youth culture and sub-cultures with devastating mistakes as a result.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psy...-shooter%3famp
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:32 PM   #84
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TL;DR
Parents and teachers should spent more time to look out for their kids and help them.
Geee...Such a novel and previously unknown concept.
Sigh.

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What I was trying to say was, we should condemn the shooter, but we shouldn't use ableist/ discriminatory language to do it. It demonizes people who are actually physically, physiologically, emotionally, mentally, and/or intellectually different.
What is this "ableist" language you are talking about and where it was used in this thread?
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:58 AM   #85
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videogames
The discission continues:

https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/...ooting-w516826

At least, he didn't call for a ban.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:28 AM   #86
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My wife and I were discussing this and maybe "locking down" schools so that anyone going in or leaving has to speak to a guard who has to buzz the door to let them in/out. It's how the local Children's Hospital's ER let's people in. You see the guard, they run you through a detector and even wand you if needed, then you're cleared. It might not be ideal, but if it can stop someone from getting the opportunity to even get in the building.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:27 AM   #87
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My wife and I were discussing this and maybe "locking down" schools so that anyone going in or leaving has to speak to a guard who has to buzz the door to let them in/out. It's how the local Children's Hospital's ER let's people in. You see the guard, they run you through a detector and even wand you if needed, then you're cleared. It might not be ideal, but if it can stop someone from getting the opportunity to even get in the building.
Off the top of my head, an immediate question is: "How quickly can you evacuate through that kind of choke-point in the case of emergency?"
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:54 AM   #88
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Off the top of my head, an immediate question is: "How quickly can you evacuate through that kind of choke-point in the case of emergency?"
You mean a fire or the like? Give teachers or other staff the ability to open side doors.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:03 AM   #89
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Southern Poverty Law Center is sending out Corrections that the shooter was linked to a white supremacist organization. Apparently the dude who claimed he was is kind of an attention hore.

So any and all motivational reasons are back on the table.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:08 AM   #90
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You mean a fire or the like? Give teachers or other staff the ability to open side doors.
Cool. I figured there would be easy solutions, but my mind refuses anything except a mental image of like a giant Death Star corridor with Stormtroopers at every checkpoint.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:46 AM   #91
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Shoddy reporting!?

I'll have you know, you uninformed liberal woman, that Alex Jones is the only hero brave enough to warn us about how THEY TURNED THE FRIGGIN' FROGS GAY!!!!
Actually that claim about the frogs is not too far off:

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A commonly used pesticide known as atrazine can turn male frogs into females that are successfully able to reproduce, a new study finds.

While previous work has shown atrazine can cause sexual abnormalities in frogs, such as hermaphroditism (having both male and female sex organs), this study is the first to find that atrazine’s effects are long-lasting and can influence reproduction in amphibians.

The results suggest that atrazine, which is a weed killer used primarily on corn crops, could have potentially harmful effects on populations of amphibians, animals that are already experiencing a global decline , said study author Tyrone B. Hayes of the University of California, Berkeley. Atrazine is banned in Europe.

And since atrazine interferes with the production of the sex hormone estrogen, present in people and frogs, the findings could have implications for humans as well. "If you have problems in amphibians, you can anticipate problems in other animals," Hayes said.
https://www.livescience.com/10957-pe...s-females.html
http://www.loe.org/shows/shows.html?...00001#feature7
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:43 PM   #92
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What explains US shootings? This article has theories.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/0...rnational.html

Huh, I guess the mass executions of 100 plus million Russians and Chinese during this period by their own government during peace time aren’t relevant? I mean, it’s not like unarmed citizens of those countries had to fear near genocide because they couldn’t defend themselves from murderous despots who enslaved their countries and ran them with an iron fist of utopian vision of peace and love... no wait, that’s exactly what happened: the disarmed their citizens then slaughtered them in mass... but hey what’s the cost of 100 million people so long as you get to force other people to live the way you want right?
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:37 PM   #93
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What explains US shootings? This article has theories.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/0...rnational.html

Huh, I guess the mass executions of 100 plus million Russians and Chinese during this period by their own government during peace time aren’t relevant? I mean, it’s not like unarmed citizens of those countries had to fear near genocide because they couldn’t defend themselves from murderous despots who enslaved their countries and ran them with an iron fist of utopian vision of peace and love... no wait, that’s exactly what happened: the disarmed their citizens then slaughtered them in mass... but hey what’s the cost of 100 million people so long as you get to force other people to live the way you want right?
Well its a good thing barely anyone in this country wants to ban guns huh Andrew. Great job with the strawman.
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:06 PM   #94
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I kind of love the notion that the average Joe with a gun could fend off a coordinated military attack.

It's quaint.
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:11 PM   #95
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I kind of love the notion that the average Joe with a gun could fend off a coordinated military attack.

It's quaint.
Still more chances than fighting attackers with kitchen knife.

On the other hand, if someone attempted to give every Russian citizen a gun...it would've turned into bloodbath. Mostly for the same reasons why school shootings occur.
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:01 PM   #96
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The only contribution to the argument about gun control coming from me is that the UK hasn't had a mass shooting since banning handguns, Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since banning handguns, and in countries such as Switzerland and Finland that have relatively high legal firearm ownership, there generally are not any mass shootings. The USA is the only country where this tends to happen. Part of the solution has to come from understanding why, irrespective of whether you believe there should be tighter controls on guns or not.

It's not as if it's a new phenomenon either, it has been happening in the country for decades. The only defining change is the rate in which it has been happening, at an accelerated level especially in the last ten years. Can that be explained by mental illness? Probably not. Constant sensationalist news coverage (spurred onwards by 24/7 news channels and social media), a desire to be recognised (respect is earned not automatically conferred), copycats, and individualistic ("me me me") culture where people want what others have but cannot get, can certainly be considered as factors.

Most firearm homicides occur with handguns. However eight of the deadliest US mass shootings ever have involved automatic/semi-automatic rifles either in part or in whole (especially the incidents in Orlando and Las Vegas). Does the average citizen really need such a weapon to defend themselves? Jury is out on that one...
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:47 PM   #97
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The only contribution to the argument about gun control coming from me is that the UK hasn't had a mass shooting since banning handguns, Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since banning handguns, and in countries such as Switzerland and Finland that have relatively high legal firearm ownership, there generally are not any mass shootings. The USA is the only country where this tends to happen. Part of the solution has to come from understanding why, irrespective of whether you believe there should be tighter controls on guns or not.

It's not as if it's a new phenomenon either, it has been happening in the country for decades. The only defining change is the rate in which it has been happening, at an accelerated level especially in the last ten years. Can that be explained by mental illness? Probably not. Constant sensationalist news coverage (spurred onwards by 24/7 news channels and social media), a desire to be recognised (respect is earned not automatically conferred), copycats, and individualistic ("me me me") culture where people want what others have but cannot get, can certainly be considered as factors.

Most firearm homicides occur with handguns. However eight of the deadliest US mass shootings ever have involved automatic/semi-automatic rifles either in part or in whole (especially the incidents in Orlando and Las Vegas). Does the average citizen really need such a weapon to defend themselves? Jury is out on that one...
In Switzerland virtually all males have to take part in the miltia which means they have to have comprehensive training when it comes to firearms also when Swiss militia members complete their service they are allowed to keep their weapon once they've been approved for an acquisition permit and can prove they have justification for having it. Private ownership of guns, along with ammunition, is also allowed under an acquisition permit with certain restrictions, including against those with criminal records and history of addiction and psychiatric problems. So basically virtually every gun hey Swiss person has is registered by the government.

As for your last question on whether or not a average citizen needs an AR 15 to defend themselves I personally say no. I'm okay with citizens owning guns such as rifles, pistols and shotguns and I'm also okay with conceal or open carry but I'm sorry I don't see why an average person needs an AR-15. Also I think we need to make it harder for people to buy guns.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:49 PM   #98
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I kind of love the notion that the average Joe with a gun could fend off a coordinated military attack.

It's quaint.
You underestimate the Redneck Militia and the devastation of a Shiner Boch Molotov Cocktail.

Just wait'll we secede. In 2020 or 2024, depending on when a Democrat gets back into office.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:51 PM   #99
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You underestimate the Redneck Militia and the devastation of a Shiner Boch Molotov Cocktail.

Just wait'll we secede. In 2020 or 2024, depending on when a Democrat gets back into office.
Dude, we've BEEN waiting! For like, literal years!
Because when you lot break away, Mass and Vermont can join Canada!
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:45 PM   #100
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Still more chances than fighting attackers with kitchen knife.
You assume a little maybe that without guns people would pick up a knife to fight. Not everyone wants to fight though. With a gun or knife. Some have instinct to hide or play possum. In Florida one parent told their child to “play dead.” In that situation probably a smart move.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bus...scanner-2018-2

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