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Old 04-05-2019, 08:54 PM   #21
Leo656
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Well, please consider that if anyone has been abused by their parent(s), it's a little bit more than just a nitpick.

I know plenty of people who wish their fathers were dead and they're rather justified in feeling that way. So yeah, whenever they watch that movie, that scene either gets an eye-roll or a massive disgusted groan.

Just sayin'. Whether it annoys a person or not most likely depends on how they themselves were treated by their parental figure.
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Old 04-05-2019, 09:26 PM   #22
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Deja vu
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question.

Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.

Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.

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Old 04-05-2019, 10:04 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
Just an old guy speaking from his own perspective and maybe can't fathom how a father wouldn't.

edit: This Splinter was also always a rat and living life hidden away the reality of many human parent-child relationships may be a little foreign to him. (Lets face it, there was no Dr. Phil for him to watch back then. lol)


Really good point.
In the Shredder's first appearance in the movie, he is telling that group of kids the world has abandoned them so he has become a father figure to all of them. And in that same scene, some have proven themselves worthy of the Foot Clan are given the mask. While another boy is killed as well (in the movie he's just severely knocked out) but originally that one kid is killed off.

So Splinter could feel Danny as much as feels a sense of belonging with the Foot Clan, he does have his doubts about them. So Splinter is telling him that just because his father seems as though he doesn't have time for him, that doesn't mean he doesn't care about him. Because real fathers do care about their children.

There are men who have children but don't want the responsibility so they up an abandon their families. Or if they stay they use the child as something else to take their anger out on, or they see the child just as a means of controlling the mother.

So there are people who are biologically fathers, but they aren't real fathers.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:56 PM   #24
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"All fathers should care for their sons" doesn't carry much weight, and would probably leave the audience pondering more than feeling. The line as-is works.

Sperm banks on legs aren't fathers. Abusive parents are hardly fatherly either. Splinter is a real father. He embodies what everyone wants in a dad. He loves them unconditionally, even though they are a completely different species from himself. As a kid who grew up with several step-parents in my life, that's an important message.

Very important to consider the context between Splinter and Danny too, who's dad may seem controlling from his teenage perspective, but in reality is hardly abusive and is proven to be very loving and concerned, which he thankfully realizes. Splinter helped that along.

Lastly, it's a movie for kids, speaking to them on their level. The intention behind the statement is more important than the pessimistic breakdown.

Now, let's imagine a kid who's not loved (or worse, abused) by their father and is old enough to have this level of introspective thought sees the movie, hears the line, and reflects on what they heard. I don't think they are going to say to themselves, "no they don't! what a lie." The thought process is probably more along the lines of, "that sounds right, that is what a true father would say. it's too bad my father is not like that. this is an injustice."

Last edited by Zulithe; 04-06-2019 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:53 AM   #25
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I understood what Splinter meant in that line and, I still have a Dad. My stepmother understood what Splinter meant and she actually shed a few tears because, she had a Dad.

For the two of us that have/ had fathers that we bonded with, Splinter's line from TMNT 1 definitely did pull a few heartstrings for us.
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:35 PM   #26
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Do you find that line problematic in today's day and age? Instead Splinter should say, "All fathers *should* care for their sons."
Great but it's too late to change the script. Where were you back in 1989 when they were filming? 24 years later and now you bring this up!
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:25 PM   #27
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They should make a Splinter/Mr Miyagi skit
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:32 PM   #28
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Great but it's too late to change the script.
Now look, if there is anyone who is interested in the passage of time and possibly most willing to go back it will be Cubed, so maybe he'll find a time machine someday.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:00 AM   #29
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That line is just splinters own personal opinion like everything we say is our own and not someone elses, defined by their own relations with people and world around them.
I feel for some of You guys but You also cant be so naive, a lot of women prevent their kids to have normal contacts with fathers and justice system is so rigged that father has almost no chance against woman who accuses him of usual drinking, violence etc. even if there was no proof of that, only thing that matters for a lot of mothers is alimony and revenge through kids, just look around.I witnessed it and witness it day by day, women demand more money and threating fathers to never see kids again etc. What kind of human being does this, he has money or not he's still the father.
Many fathers cut contact cause they dont want to be on this kind of terms raising their kids which are used as weapon against them.
Its super easy to blame one person but life is not like this, every father had reasons which are not just "i dont care about the kid"
My friend didnt even wanted to talk with father and ask him what was his reason they split etc. Because of money or hurt feelings, but what about his father's feelings, he obviously had it hard if he made this kind of decision, i doubt that he was super happy about it.In the end eveyrone preferes peace and order, complete family.At least thats what circle of life is about, if you dont want to play that game just do vasectomy and i dont blame any man for doing this, justice system is totally against men when it comes to custody of kids especially now with #metoo movement every argument between man and woman is violence against her and unless you have proof youre in trouble if you get yourself into argument with woman who loves to victimize herself and a lot of women do like that, because it pays off $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and theres no penalty for lying in court in this kind of cases cause its about the custody not abuse but still they believe her and wont check the facts.
I totally understand fathers who wouldnt putup with vengeful woman using their child as weapon.They have no will and help to fight this kind of abuse , especially with all the women in courts as judges helping each other get kids and point fingers at bad fathers.
This sounds like a joke but its reality of court system when it comes to having normal relations with kids if youre man or woman, women win in 90% of cases even if fathers have no history of proven abuse.I wish they would teach young boys about this at school.
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:36 PM   #30
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Now look, if there is anyone who is interested in the passage of time and possibly most willing to go back it will be Cubed, so maybe he'll find a time machine someday.
Good idea. Be warned: I heard from a fellow called Napoleon the one he bought of ebay didn't do what it said.
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:21 PM   #31
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Old 04-27-2019, 10:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bwwd View Post
That line is just splinters own personal opinion like everything we say is our own and not someone elses, defined by their own relations with people and world around them.
I feel for some of You guys but You also cant be so naive, a lot of women prevent their kids to have normal contacts with fathers and justice system is so rigged that father has almost no chance against woman who accuses him of usual drinking, violence etc. even if there was no proof of that, only thing that matters for a lot of mothers is alimony and revenge through kids, just look around.I witnessed it and witness it day by day, women demand more money and threating fathers to never see kids again etc. What kind of human being does this, he has money or not he's still the father.
Many fathers cut contact cause they dont want to be on this kind of terms raising their kids which are used as weapon against them.
Its super easy to blame one person but life is not like this, every father had reasons which are not just "i dont care about the kid"
My friend didnt even wanted to talk with father and ask him what was his reason they split etc. Because of money or hurt feelings, but what about his father's feelings, he obviously had it hard if he made this kind of decision, i doubt that he was super happy about it.In the end eveyrone preferes peace and order, complete family.At least thats what circle of life is about, if you dont want to play that game just do vasectomy and i dont blame any man for doing this, justice system is totally against men when it comes to custody of kids especially now with #metoo movement every argument between man and woman is violence against her and unless you have proof youre in trouble if you get yourself into argument with woman who loves to victimize herself and a lot of women do like that, because it pays off $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and theres no penalty for lying in court in this kind of cases cause its about the custody not abuse but still they believe her and wont check the facts.
I totally understand fathers who wouldnt putup with vengeful woman using their child as weapon.They have no will and help to fight this kind of abuse , especially with all the women in courts as judges helping each other get kids and point fingers at bad fathers.
This sounds like a joke but its reality of court system when it comes to having normal relations with kids if youre man or woman, women win in 90% of cases even if fathers have no history of proven abuse.I wish they would teach young boys about this at school.
Woah man, lie down before you hurt yourself...

Are you saying abusive and neglectful fathers don't exist?

Anyway, whenever I heard this line I would wince a bit in empathy for kids who watched it who didn't have caring fathers, but I guess they would understand that all fathers SHOULD care for their sons. Or children in general. Whatever.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:35 PM   #33
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Clearly TMNT 1990 is a problematic movie in today's world, sure those things were acceptable back then but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Best we can hope is that the movie is discontinued or at the very least that scene cut out from all future releases.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:48 AM   #34
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Clearly TMNT 1990 is a problematic movie in today's world, sure those things were acceptable back then but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Best we can hope is that the movie is discontinued or at the very least that scene cut out from all future releases.
Can't tell if you're sarcastic? I don't think it needs to be cut. Then, like now, I'm sure kids with ****** parents would just think "that's not my experience" and be a bit sad and then move on.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:50 AM   #35
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Clearly TMNT 1990 is a problematic movie in today's world, sure those things were acceptable back then but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Best we can hope is that the movie is discontinued or at the very least that scene cut out from all future releases.
Can't tell if you're sarcastic? I don't think it needs to be cut. Then, like now, I'm sure kids with ****** parents would just think "that's not my experience" and be a bit sad and then either forget it or figure out how to move out as soon as possible.
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Old 05-01-2019, 03:02 PM   #36
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It is quite impossible to talk about these things without drama, everyone has their own.Everyones way of thinking about these things is their own opinion, my father drank a lot but now when i look at it, it wasnt as bad for me, i didnt get beat up , when youre older some drama from the past becomes almost irrelevant.A lot of people strive for drama cause it makes their life interesting.They just love pulling victim card.I can do that too but how about no.Move on.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:05 AM   #37
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It is quite impossible to talk about these things without drama, everyone has their own.Everyones way of thinking about these things is their own opinion, my father drank a lot but now when i look at it, it wasnt as bad for me, i didnt get beat up , when youre older some drama from the past becomes almost irrelevant.A lot of people strive for drama cause it makes their life interesting.They just love pulling victim card.I can do that too but how about no.Move on.
Social media is the cause for a lot of these problems today.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:16 AM   #38
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First understand the phrase "the exception proves the rule", then you will understand what Splinter is talking about.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:23 AM   #39
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Splinter also tries to get out of the situation he's in (chained to a wall in Shredder's hideout). He had to realize instinctively that Danny had not run away from a family that was abusing him (he's rather the kind of typical lost/rebellious teenager), and he tries to awaken his empathy by showing him that they share a logic of "stable" people. And in the end, it works ... The use of psychology sounds rather ninja to me.
That's a good point and a clever observation I'd like to expound on.

Let's all watch this scene together shall we?




Notice that Splinter says the "fathers" line at the end of the dialogue here. The way Danny says, "My father couldn't care less about me,' conveys that he isn't being abused, but rather he feels lorded over and ignored. Also, we can tell that Splinter has a way to read people from his first line about Danny's face wearing "so many burdens." Splinter knew what he was doing and played on Danny's sympathy to escape, but at the same time offer his hand in friendship.

And yes, ultimately it does work, after their next scene together where we learn -- along with Danny -- the history between Splinter and Shredder. Danny quits the Foot, releases Splinter (with Casey's help), goes back to his father, and even gives April back the money he stole.

I really don't think this particular line is all that problematic.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:10 PM   #40
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How is this thread still open and how does it have two pages to it? This thread needs to die a slow death. Makes no sense.
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