The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > TMNT Comic Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2016, 07:00 PM   #61
***First of Two Latin Kings***
Will not be censored
 
***First of Two Latin Kings***'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Farm That Time Forgot
Posts: 8,841
Maybe there were already trace elements of mutagen in the sewer water that caused him to exceed his normal life span.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
I can hear it now: "I'm sorry little April, I told you that if you didn't take good care of them I'd be taking them away. Now they are going to the lab to be abused for experimentation" (You could almost rewrite this as April caused the fire to get back at her father over it...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCanadiandrome View Post
Powder I'd not defend him, that's just how he gets



International shipping assistance: DARTHCJJ@GMAIL.COM
***First of Two Latin Kings*** is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 07:05 PM   #62
Candy Kappa
The Agenda of Existing
 
Candy Kappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vikingland
Posts: 14,596
It's been mentioned a few times, but there was a story planned that explained why Splinter had such a long lifespan unmutated. He wasn't a regular rat to begin with or something.
Candy Kappa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 07:32 PM   #63
Duke Nukem
Hench Mutant
 
Duke Nukem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterpiece View Post
I'm glad the Original Movie edited Nagi out of the script (yeah, Nagi was in the script for those of you who want to know). All you need is Saki as the Shredder and that's it.
I'm pretty sure he's in the Mirage comic adaption of the film, but it's been a while since I've read that.

I don't think Oroku Nagi is necessary. IDW and 2k3 both did a great job with Shredder as a character with different origins (that are still the same in a lot of key ways) where Nagi wouldn't have fit. With that said, I don't have anything against the character either, if Mirage had expanded more on their early years that probably would have been good also.
Duke Nukem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2016, 09:01 PM   #64
Allio
Foot Elite
 
Allio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,081
I wouldn't mind seeing Nagi again, but just in a "we have the whole Oroku family." Nagi as his brother, his father from IDW and his mother from the 87 cartoon, and Pimiko or Karai depending on your mood
__________________
Allio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 09:23 AM   #65
plastroncafe
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
 
plastroncafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Upsidedown
Posts: 7,926
While Nagi does make Splinter's age a problem, it does make Saki closer to the turtles age by comparison. This is good for a couple of reasons, it makes him a more formidable foe. Less an adult beating on children.

In addition it helps to solidify just how needless all of the violence is to begin with.
Saki and Splinter are personally removed from the feud between Yoshi and Nagi, and by extension the turtles even more so.
And yet the cycle of violence continues anyway. Less for personal grief, and more for some intangible sense of honor.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel View Post
So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
plastroncafe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 02:54 AM   #66
Masterpiece
Random Punk
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
While Nagi does make Splinter's age a problem, it does make Saki closer to the turtles age by comparison. This is good for a couple of reasons, it makes him a more formidable foe. Less an adult beating on children.
Not really.
I did my calculations upon reading the original issue of TMNT Mirage and Saki would be around 35 by the time the Turtles (aged 15) first faced him.
Masterpiece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 08:53 AM   #67
plastroncafe
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
 
plastroncafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Upsidedown
Posts: 7,926
You're absolutely right, I just broke out my Vol 1 #1 to check.
Though...the turtles are 13 in that issue, and not 15....which only serves to weaken my case further.

D'oh!
__________________
------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel View Post
So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
plastroncafe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 10:10 PM   #68
miru
Mad Scientist
 
miru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,874
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan View Post
Nagi was important to the Mirage comics, but he is of little to no importance anywhere else. The cycle of vengence is exlusive to the source material, every other version has gone the Saki=Bad, Yoshi= good route. It become the 'common mythology' of turtles lore. If a writer has a story to tell with Nagi in a particular version, then he can be used. If not, he should not be shoehorned in by the magical words 'source material'. Like any other concept, the cycle of vengence hould only be brought into a version if it suits the intended narrative of the storyteller.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you look across many diffrent stories and mythological cycles, the only signifgance the 'source material' usually has is it's the first version. A 'common mythology' ususally develops out of all the various adaptations, retellings, and additions later storytellers add. If you resticted storytellers to going back to the 'source material' well, the aurthian cycle, Greek/Roman mythology and the superman mythos would all be very, very diffrent. Once the 'common mythology' of 4Kids, Fred Wolf, the movies, archie, and all the others entered the public consiousness, it can be argued that Mirage simply became another ingredient in the 'common mythology soup' that superceeded it's primacy.

Indeed, and yet, Nagi is still potentially more important than Mr. McAdam, a character not even seen in the Movie Adaptation comic. Every version has something that is forgotten in the end. Mr. McAdam seems generic enough as to be easily replaced with someone new, whereas every other character in that first issue is at least revisited within Mirage's pages. Such as Nagi returning as a vengeful phantasm haunting Shen's home, battling his brother's slayers one final time before being exorcised from this plane by them.

A-ha! Nagi actually works pretty well as a vengeful undead of some sort. Especially as a poltergeist haunting a house in Chihaya… or maybe more than just a house, what about the Chihaya Castle? Or Mount Kongo itself? How would he react to the Foot staying with him? Just imagine a mountain coming to life... Even your idea for him as Shredder II is valid to me, and I agree with it. A "The Joker with Ninjutsu" portrayal may be just as valid as the "poltergeist" one, much like how Wyrm is great either as a garbage collector, magical space jinn, or ferocious beast.


McAdam? I honestly have no clue.
__________________
Proud Digimon nut.
miru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2018, 11:30 AM   #69
Tetsu Deinonychus
The Iron Dinosaur
 
Tetsu Deinonychus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Studio Snowlion HQ
Posts: 3,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Nukem View Post
I'm pretty sure he's in the Mirage comic adaption of the film, but it's been a while since I've read that.

I don't think Oroku Nagi is necessary. IDW and 2k3 both did a great job with Shredder as a character with different origins (that are still the same in a lot of key ways) where Nagi wouldn't have fit. With that said, I don't have anything against the character either, if Mirage had expanded more on their early years that probably would have been good also.
Interestingly enough. I had the storybook adaptation of the movie as a kid, and Nagi's included in that.
Tetsu Deinonychus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2018, 09:54 PM   #70
clockstomper
Thug
 
clockstomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 94
Nagi plays really well into the idea of the multigenerational conflict, the endless cycle of revenge, etc. Splinter and Saki have a lot in common the Mirage continuity, it's a shame they never even spoke.

Although I prefer when the conflict is between Saki and a Hamato Yoshi who IS Splinter in some fashion (be it through mutation or reincarnation.) It seems to lead to better stories that way, it just feels the most personal. I've warmed up to Utrom Shredder over the years but I still feel disconnected from the conflict because there's too many degrees of separation. He seems pretty content to just leave the Turtles alone in Exodus, he probably wouldn't have made his way back to Earth in their lifetimes.
clockstomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2023, 11:09 AM   #71
Andrew NDB
Weed Whacker
 
Andrew NDB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 29,132
I think as soon as you remove Nagi, you take a big step towards making Oroku Saki into cardboard. Because then he's not avenging anybody or anything, or you then have to concoct something new for him to be pissed about.
Andrew NDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2023, 04:02 PM   #72
neatoman
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,398
Yeah… Not gonna lie, "most adaptations ignore him" isn't really a strong argument for why he shouldn't exist at all. I think the closest any adaptation got to including him was Mashimi in the 4Kids show, but only in so far as depicting Yoshi's rival as a separate character from Shredder himself, the fact that he obviously didn't mean anything to the Shredder beyond a failed means to an end gives him a very different role in the story aside from the love triangle.

I get why he's not really used much, most of the adaptations are made with a child audience in mind and giving the villain a legit reason to beef may seem… Uncomfortable for children or parents. Ultimately though, Nagi is probably important to understand the Shredder's motives, otherwise he'd either fall into cartoon megalomania or become a confused mess like in the 2012 show.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTH View Post
Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
neatoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2023, 05:46 PM   #73
TheLabRat
Foot Soldier
 
TheLabRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
I think as soon as you remove Nagi, you take a big step towards making Oroku Saki into cardboard. Because then he's not avenging anybody or anything, or you then have to concoct something new for him to be pissed about.
Maybe it's something like an infighting between the foot clan families. Nagi is also a victim of this infighting. His death made things worse for the Oroku family, because before that, the Oroku family had already declined, and Nagi was once highly expected to revive the family. Saki wants to take over his brother's unfinshed duites while taking revenge on other Foot elders.
TheLabRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2023, 04:53 PM   #74
DrSpengler
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSpengler View Post
Aww yeah, this guy right here.

It was an underdeveloped plot point for the original Mirage Shredder, admittedly, but he had a sympathetic or empathetic angle to his origin story. Beyond just wanting to avenge his brother, the text even explicitly states that he was misinformed and manipulated by the Foot Clan hierarchy, making him a "victim" in his own right.

There's a lot of material in that original Mirage Shredder back story that could be used to flesh out the character. While I appreciate that Mirage didn't want to overuse the Shredder and employed him sparingly, at times it felt like a missed opportunity to mine some genuinely fascinating characterization from him.

I think it was... Tristan Jones (?) who said he even pitched a Shredder prequel story to Tales and got it shot down (might have been Ross May; my memory is foggy). Mirage editorial seemed pretty strict in their decree to leave the Shredder alone (save the Shark-Shredder, but that was explained in excruciating detail as not being the "real" Shredder). I get why they wanted to stick to that angle, but there were so many stories that could have been told that couldn't not be explored in other continuities (since, as noted, all other continuities have eliminated Nagi from the formula).
Rereading my original response from 2014 (sweet lord), I stand by it.

THAT SAID, I think the adaptations that have strayed the most from Mirage have found interesting avenues to fill that motivational void once Nagi is eliminated from Shredder's origin.

4Kids had Ch'rell, who was so far removed from any incarnation of the Shredder, with his own crazy origin and motivations, that there really was no room for a sad brother story for him. He had his own nutty stuff going on and I loved all of it for what it was. Wholly unique.

2012 Nickelodeon Shredder, I think in terms of intent (and not always execution), had something going there. Saki and Yoshi fighting over Tang Shen was there, but with the added bonus of Karai having been born to Tang and Yoshi, but abducted by Saki. He raises her as his own daughter as the ultimate F U to Yoshi, but in that span of time comes to genuinely love her as his own, as well as for her being the last piece of Tang Shen left (whom he genuinely cared for).

All the amazing pieces were there, they just didn't always get explored as well as they could. The abuse Shredder often put Karai through to keep her by his side eliminated most any sympathetic qualities to his plight. Still, there was something really unique there which filled the emotional and personal role that an Oroku Nagi would have left behind.

So I don't think removing Nagi for the sake of streamlining origins is entirely bad, I just think his personal weight has to be replaced with something. Anything.
DrSpengler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2023, 10:17 PM   #75
miru
Mad Scientist
 
miru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,874
I ageee that yes, to replace Oroku Nagi, another form of drama is needed to fill the void, and I think Miwa hits the spot. Alternatively, as with Ch’rell or the various Shredders of demonic origin (2k3 Tengu Shredder, Rise Shredder), one can even downplay the Saki stuff, and have a different “Yoshi and Shen” story. However, those who don’t necessarily replace that story but merely ignore this often have weaker Shredders, like the Baytles version. And also I think perhaps using Nagi as well as another dramatic element like Miwa would provide even more poetic elements to the origin story.
__________________
Proud Digimon nut.
miru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2023, 06:48 AM   #76
MikeandRaph87
Jedi Master
 
MikeandRaph87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters
Posts: 11,109
His significance has expired so...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 805edw.jpg (43.5 KB, 10 views)
__________________
Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!
MikeandRaph87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
oroku nagi

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.