Underrated Bat Rogues

[MikeandRaph87]

I have a liking to the colorful characters who scrooge Batman and see quite a few can be dismissed or not given proper care or continued care. What villains in the deep depths of Batman' Rogues Gallery do you appreciate?

Spoiler:

Of all of the well-known villains I would say Mr. Freeze. I love the concept and his origin given by Paul Dini. This character owes a lot to television as he was a one-shot named Mr. Zero who was cured at the end of his first story. However, William Dozier must have picked up this comic when looking for samples and he appeared in Batman'66 three times. Watching his episode which he kidnaps Ms. Iceland in attempt to make her Mrs. Fries does not feel like the character due to later developments not to mention a moll he had feelings for that used him in a 1979 story. Then twenty-six years later his three Batman: TAS episodes solidified him as a first string villain. The problem is he had a downturn in his story-line. It could have ended with Subzero and given a villain what looked to be a happy ending. However, he literally fell apart and his wife remarried with him declared dead. The comics incorporated the origin and shattered Nora only to make her a villain who spites Victor, Lazara. Mr. Freeze needs to find a way to maintain his Batman: TAS origin yet have more than a limited story-line. Further use has proven to derail the character's arc. He needs either a happy ending or work needs to be done to allow him to continue while incorporating the animated series given origin. So far no dice.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Another character I enjoy reading in The Spook, a criminally underrated threat that had early success and well done stories between 1973 to 1980. Afterwards he appeared in the first of two villain gathers, Detective Comics#526 (1983). He made Batman think himself to be dead among other darker ploys villains have pulled. Val Kaliban had done enough to be put on death row, but his escape artist mastery allowed him to avoid the sentence. How many of Batman's rogues were a threat enough for death row? There is also the problem of the two times he was dusted off (late 2003) as unable to adapt to life in Gotham of today and used as a sacrificial lamb to the debuting Damian Wayne which he is unceremoniously beheaded by the child after holding up city hall. This character needs further use and respect. A lot of directions can be taken with him becoming a true spook or true to his skill set escape the fate and getting revenge. He did get a cameo in the Scooby Doo team up title alongside a Bamtan '66 villain, False Face since, but that is not nearly what the villain needs.
https://babblingsaboutdccomics4.word...nd-robin-ends/

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Third and finally, Boss Rupert Thorne. Batman's rogues really lack a pure mafia villain. Batman's tend to crossover to mafia, but are primarily costumed super villains. The likes of Penguin, Two Face, Ventriolquist, even Killer Croc early on was, are underworld factions, but not true mob. Black Mask and maybe Ventriloquist are the only mafia characters that interact with the super-kind. Spider-Man's rogues with Kingpin, Silvermane,Hammerhead, Tombstone, and The Owl are primarily mafia characters who interact with the super-kind. Thorne is a creation of the Englehart run, but his reign was short-lived and only had two arcs in '77 and '83,but Rupert Thorne gave the role of The Kingpin that he would take on in Spider-Man:TAS when Thorne controlled most of crime and city council in Batman:TAS. He has so much potential to scrooge Batman politically long-term and have a hold on Gotham to rival The Penguin,but never got time to shine. Aside from that Dr. Phosphorous went after he him yet again years later in 2006 and he was in the debut scene of The Batman as a generic mafia character. This guy needs the creators attention!

Any thoughts on my choices or do you have your own favorites who are overlooked or under utilized?

[Redeemer]

Really good pulls/choices!!!!!
Love Mr.Freese in BTAS and the movie Sub-Zero I am unfamiliar with him in the comics, but he had a really awesome episode on Batman Beyond.

Not familiar with Mr. Spook so I really don't have much to say about him.

Rupert Thorne is definitely a favorite villain of mine from BTAS bc he and the mafia aspect kept the show grounded.

As for a Main Rogue I would like to see more of..... I would have to go with Scarecrow. I thought he was ok in BTAS, but in the Arkham Asylum games he was amazing and would love to see more of that Scarecrow.

As for under-rated I would love to The Court of Owls get some more love. I am just waiting for them to break out onto the big screen. I know they have been in Gotham the tv series, but I did not like that interpretation. The comic court of Owls is amazing and the dynamic with Batman and Bruce Wayne is something that even rivals Joker's

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

As for under-rated I would love to The Court of Owls get some more love. I am just waiting for them to break out onto the big screen. I know they have been in Gotham the tv series, but I did not like that interpretation. The comic court of Owls is amazing and the dynamic with Batman and Bruce Wayne is something that even rivals Joker's

I kinda wish I saw the Court of Owls go after the Joker.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Riddler is well-known, but I think he's pretty underrated.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Riddler is well-known, but I think he's pretty underrated.

What are your opinions on Zero Year and The War of Jokes and Riddles? High profile stories that I question if it was a teue depiction of The Riddler.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I kinda wish I saw the Court of Owls go after the Joker.

Are you talking about in the comics(New 52) OR in Gotham tv show?

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What are your opinions on Zero Year and The War of Jokes and Riddles? High profile stories that I question if it was a teue depiction of The Riddler.

Zero Year was freaking amazing! Thats the only reason I did not mention Riddler in my answer bc he had such a big arc devoted to the character.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

What are your opinions on Zero Year and The War of Jokes and Riddles? High profile stories that I question if it was a teue depiction of The Riddler.

Zero Year was pretty great. Not my favorite early Batman story or my favorite Scott Snyder Batman story, but I really enjoyed it. Love me some Scott Snyder.

War of Jokes and Riddles sucked. All tell, no show. Barely any real story. I don't like Tom King, except for one or two issues. Didn't like "I Am Gotham", "I Am Suicide", "I Am Bane", "Night of the Monster Men", or "Everybody Loves Ivy." Or the Wonder Woman / Batman story.

I've liked the story where Selina and Bruce went to have a talk with Talia... that's been about it.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/birds-of-pre...1830970745/amp

Black Mask will be villain A and Mr.Zsasz will be villain B. I dont consider the plainclothes cameo in Batman Begins as an appearance so this will make 14 villains of Batman's rogues gallery to appear in a film as an antagonist.

[Andrew NDB]

I think Mekros had a lot of potential. He showed up in Batman #501 and #502 and always has left an impression on me.

He's like a self-brainwashed hitman, going around quoting Machiavelli's "The Prince" as he does his murders.

[oldmanwinters]

Clock King!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Clock King!

William Tockman, the Green Arrow villain who appeared in Batman (1966) two parter and fought Justice League International alongside Cluemaster or Temple Fugate of Batman: TAS?

[AquaParade]

The Joker.

I'll see myself out.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

https://hopeburnsbright.files.wordpr...nned-goods.jpg

I think Mekros had a lot of potential. He showed up in Batman #501 and #502 and always has left an impression on me.

He's like a self-brainwashed hitman, going around quoting Machiavelli's "The Prince" as he does his murders.

Mekros,huh? I have known of about every Bat Rogue from A list to D list, but that one escaped me! I see why too, it took place during Knight Fall and he only appeared in one story-line and never beyond that one off appearance. I only cared for Knights End of the whole long-winded story arc. I do like the quoting The Prince though.

[Leo656]

I just got done reading "Batman: The Cult" a few days ago. How about Deacon Blackfire? He's pretty obscure, but he sure got a lot done right out of the gate. Did he ever show up again?

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm fairly certain that Nolan borrowed huge chunks of "The Cult" for "The Dark Knight Rises", and simply swapped Blackfire out for Bane.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I just got done reading "Batman: The Cult" a few days ago. How about Deacon Blackfire? He's pretty obscure, but he sure got a lot done right out of the gate. Did he ever show up again?

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm fairly certain that Nolan borrowed huge chunks of "The Cult" for "The Dark Knight Rises", and simply swapped Blackfire out for Bane.

He and a couple other low ranking bat rogues were reanimated to fight Dick, Damien, and Tim in Blackest Night: Batman mini.

Similiar to how The Wrath was reworked for The New 52 so was Deacon Blavkfire. His story took place in Batman Eternal which I did not read cover to cover. He returned possessing Maxie Zues, who also should have been dead in a second story, third overall. Comics, go figure!

What villain has the most rewrites? My guess is Dr. Death. There has been perhaps four different Dr. Deaths none replacing the other and all acting like the inirial encounter.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

https://io9.gizmodo.com/birds-of-pre...1830970745/amp

Black Mask will be villain A and Mr.Zsasz will be villain B. I dont consider the plainclothes cameo in Batman Begins as an appearance so this will make 14 villains of Batman's rogues gallery to appear in a film as an antagonist.

What sense does that make? He was clearly named as "Victor Zsasz", used a knife, and covered with scars.

No, he wasn't the "Top Hat & Tuxedo Variant" but it would have been silly to expect that then, or now. I mean, after the movie the comic books changed his appearance to make his Batman Begins look "official". If they've since walked it back I'm unaware of it.

I prefer the original look, myself, but saying it "doesn't count" in Begins is silly.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Another character I enjoy reading in The Spook, a criminally underrated threat that had early success and well done stories between 1973 to 1980. Afterwards he appeared in the first of two villain gathers, Detective Comics#526 (1983). He made Batman think himself to be dead among other darker ploys villains have pulled. Val Kaliban had done enough to be put on death row, but his escape artist mastery allowed him to avoid the sentence. How many of Batman's rogues were a threat enough for death row? There is also the problem of the two times he was dusted off (late 2003) as unable to adapt to life in Gotham of today and used as a sacrificial lamb to the debuting Damian Wayne which he is unceremoniously beheaded by the child after holding up city hall. This character needs further use and respect. A lot of directions can be taken with him becoming a true spook or true to his skill set escape the fate and getting revenge. He did get a cameo in the Scooby Doo team up title alongside a Bamtan '66 villain, False Face since, but that is not nearly what the villain needs.

i really enjoyed those comics featuring The Spook that you recommended to me.

i have to be honest, i did kind of enjoy seeing The Spook beheaded by Damian Wayne. sure it was a slapstick moment, but it showed what a Problem Child Damian truly was. and gave Batman a realization as to just what a danger this child was.

and in comics, no character is ever truly dead.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by myconius

i really enjoyed those comics featuring The Spook that you recommended to me.

i have to be honest, i did kind of enjoy seeing The Spook beheaded by Damian Wayne. sure it was a slapstick moment, but it showed what a Problem Child Damian truly was. and gave Batman a realization as to just what a danger this child was.

and in comics, no character is ever truly dead.

I am just surprised at how he was an actual threat while not being a big name and then forgotten only to be remembered as a joke. How can someone who was an actual threat be a joke like that? Its not freaking Signal Man or Calendar Man, or Killer Moth who always have been in-story treated as such from day one.

I thought Spook would have returned by now. If everyone else can get well.Why not play up one or the other his escape artistry to get out of the beheading or come back undead and be an actual Sppok? The only thing campy about him is coincidental, the fact his name is Val Kaliban opposed to Val Kilmer, a slight name tweak and there you go.

These are his appearances, but note #291-#294 is as a gathering of villains which he portrays a juror. Which ones did you read?
Detective Comics #434 (April 1973): "The Spook Who Stalked Batman"
Detective Comics #435 (June-July 1973): "The Spook Strikes Again"
Batman #252 (October 1973): "The Spook's Master Stroke"
Batman #276 (June 1976): "The Haunting of the Spook"
Batman #291 (September 1977): "Where Were You On the Night Batman Was Killed?"
Batman #292 (October 1977): "The Testimony of the Riddler"
Batman #293 (November 1977): "The Testimony of Luthor"
Batman #294 (December 1977): "Testimony of the Joker"
Batman #304 (October 1978 ): "To Hell with Batman--and Back"
Detective Comics #488 (February-March 1980): "The Spook's Death Sentence for Batman"
Detective Comics #526 (May 1983): "All My Enemies Against Me"

Then there is "Scared Straight" from Gotham Knights #46 (December 2003) that portrayed him differently and perhaps inspired Batman#657's use of the character. Morrison said he was a favorite forgotten character, why would you kill a favorite to build up one of her own? "Favorite", sure its what I would have done to Professor Pyg.

[MikeandRaph87]

The other one I seem to be the only fan of is Rupert Thorne, has Carmine Falcone taken any role that Rupert Thorne would play as the plainclothes kinpin of the underworld who looks down on the "freaks"? Batman needs an untouchable if not plainclothes mob figure. Sure there is Penguin, but there is room for more and Penguin is likely to take to the field form time to time and direct thugs. Even so Carmine can be dead and Rupert can be related or connected to Falcone and try to pull a Palpitine and take power.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I am just surprised at how he was an actual threat while not being a big name and then forgotten only to be remembered as a joke. How can someone who was an actual threat be a joke like that? Its not freaking Signal Man or Calendar Man, or Killer Moth who always have been in-story treated as such from day one.

I thought Spook would have returned by now. If everyone else can get well.Why not play up one or the other his escape artistry to get out of the beheading or come back undead and be an actual Sppok? The only thing campy about him is coincidental, the fact his name is Val Kaliban opposed to Val Kilmer, a slight name tweak and there you go.

These are his appearances, but note #291-#294 is as a gathering of villains which he portrays a juror. Which ones did you read?
Detective Comics #434 (April 1973): "The Spook Who Stalked Batman"
Detective Comics #435 (June-July 1973): "The Spook Strikes Again"
Batman #252 (October 1973): "The Spook's Master Stroke"
Batman #276 (June 1976): "The Haunting of the Spook"
Batman #291 (September 1977): "Where Were You On the Night Batman Was Killed?"
Batman #292 (October 1977): "The Testimony of the Riddler"
Batman #293 (November 1977): "The Testimony of Luthor"
Batman #294 (December 1977): "Testimony of the Joker"
Batman #304 (October 1978 ): "To Hell with Batman--and Back"
Detective Comics #488 (February-March 1980): "The Spook's Death Sentence for Batman"
Detective Comics #526 (May 1983): "All My Enemies Against Me"

Then there is "Scared Straight" from Gotham Knights #46 (December 2003) that portrayed him differently and perhaps inspired Batman#657's use of the character. Morrison said he was a favorite forgotten character, why would you kill a favorite to build up one of her own? "Favorite", sure its what I would have done to Professor Pyg.

i guess it all just depends on who the writer is and what classic villains they feel like dusting off.
so far most writers just want to try to create their own crappy villains to make a name for themselves.
then we end up with trash like Gotham and Gotham Girl.

Crazy Quilt was re-invented for the new52 just so he could be unceremoniously killed off.
then without explanation was simply brought back and used in a later story.

i’d read all the ones you suggested to me. pretty sure they were Detective Comics #434, Detective Comics #435, Batman #252, & Batman #276
i’ll save this list have to re-read them again soon.

why would you kill a favorite to build up one of her own? writers always do that. Tom King just recently did that to Bane, but back-peddaled it as soon as he got swamped with hate.
that didn’t stop him from sticking to killing Alfred though, that putz.