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Old 11-03-2016, 03:59 PM   #1
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
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In Name Only or Never Seen Again?

The Nick and IDW series have both been introducing a lot of new (and old) favorites to TMNT canon. But many of them are familiar... either in name only, or in everything BUT name.

It seems that Nick prefers to come up with new characters and then slap familiar names onto them... I guess in an effort to ensure fans like them more? I don't personally see the appeal in these characters.

Examples: Nick's Bebop and Rocksteady (or Anton Zeck and whoever the Russian guy is) were nothing like the original characters, even after mutation. A stereotypical Russian gangster and a Tron hiphop jive master thief? Or their Rahzar, who started off as a human Chuck Norris, mutated into a lopsided dog mutant Dogpound, and then double mutated into a sharp skeletal werewolf?

Whereas IDW starts with familiar character designs and then assigns new names to what could have been revamped existing characters. While these characters are generally well accepted, it does pretty much guarantee that no similar and pre-existing characters will ever see the light of day.

Examples: A shark mutant that ends up named Bludgeon instead of Armaggeon; a female Foot assassin named Jennika instead of Pimiko; a fox badass warrior turned sappy romantic interest for Raphael named Alopex instead of Ninjara (thanks to rights issues and a terrible name).

My question to you is... which approach do you prefer?
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Old 11-03-2016, 04:04 PM   #2
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I'm not too familiar with IDW but I actually really like the Nick approach, and its not like the Nick versions aren't anything like the original. They still do share many of the same basic elements, but Nick goes out of their way to make these characters unique and give them many original backstories. Thats why when characters like Bebop, Rocksteady and Hun were announced, I was naturally very excited, not just because I would see familiar faces again, but also because it would be interesting to see what new stuff Nick does with them.
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Old 11-03-2016, 04:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
The Nick and IDW series have both been introducing a lot of new (and old) favorites to TMNT canon. But many of them are familiar... either in name only, or in everything BUT name.

It seems that Nick prefers to come up with new characters and then slap familiar names onto them... I guess in an effort to ensure fans like them more? I don't personally see the appeal in these characters.

Examples: Nick's Bebop and Rocksteady (or Anton Zeck and whoever the Russian guy is) were nothing like the original characters, even after mutation. A stereotypical Russian gangster and a Tron hiphop jive master thief? Or their Rahzar, who started off as a human Chuck Norris, mutated into a lopsided dog mutant Dogpound, and then double mutated into a sharp skeletal werewolf?

Whereas IDW starts with familiar character designs and then assigns new names to what could have been revamped existing characters. While these characters are generally well accepted, it does pretty much guarantee that no similar and pre-existing characters will ever see the light of day.

Examples: A shark mutant that ends up named Bludgeon instead of Armaggeon; a female Foot assassin named Jennika instead of Pimiko; a fox badass warrior turned sappy romantic interest for Raphael named Alopex instead of Ninjara (thanks to rights issues and a terrible name).

My question to you is... which approach do you prefer?
In the case of the Nick approach, there really isn't much point to it as far as I can see, at least not from an artistic perspective. If you're going to make your own thing anyway, why even bother pretending you're trying recreate something? The only logical reasons I can see have nothing to do with artistic expression:
  1. Like you said, hoping that older fans will feel more attached to them. I don't really see that being the case here, since old fans aren't really the target audience here.
  2. It helps reinforce trademarks, this show is meant to sell toys after all.
  3. It might feel easier for the creative team if the characters aren't really their own creations, they don't have to part with the copyright of their babies.

As for the IDW approach, well, there's nothing that really prevents the older characters from popping up later, is there? As long as the title is published, there's still hope they might show up.

Regardless, I think it's probably best for now that these aren't actually the same characters. Ninjara, Armaggon and Pimiko are all characters that would just open up a can of worms if you just used them for the sake of using them. Does IDW really need to complicate the story with an ancient foxman village, a timelooping cyborg shark trying to conquer the world and an alleged daughter of the Shredder? I don't think so, I'd say it's probably not a good idea to make things complicated for no reason.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:16 PM   #4
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This can apply to any new character in any series. Look at Slash:

- Original cartoon: Slash was Bebop's secret pet Turtle that he mutated. Then Slash went beserk, had an obsession with his palm tree and flew into Dimension X.

- Archie. Slash is actually an alien Turtle from some palm tree planet. He meets Krang in space then comes to Earth, eventually has an alliance with the Mutanimals and then sacrifices himself to stop Malinga.

- IDW. Slash is a mutant created by Stockgen, he joins up with Hob and goes from a mindless beast to being intelligent.

- Nick. Slash was Raphael's pet turtle Spike. Got mutated, when rogue for a while, then formed the Mutanimals.


Slash has had a widly different origin and personality every series he was in. This is no different than any other character.
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:24 PM   #5
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Gun to my head, I kind of like the Nick approach on paper. When you accept it's sort of set in some kind of... heightened reality, old Playmates TMNT toys sandbox with a dusting of this or that... it works well and seems to follow its own set of rules. From where I'm at in season 3, it seems to have gotten a bit vapid, though.

I don't like the IDW approach on paper. Nothing seems -- forgive me if this sounds mean -- lazier than just jambalayaing together characters and stories from existing universes created by others.
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:31 PM   #6
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Interesting thing is Wyrm is appearing in IDW around January, yet another old mutant brought back.
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:38 PM   #7
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Gun to my head, I kind of like the Nick approach on paper. When you accept it's sort of set in some kind of... heightened reality, old Playmates TMNT toys sandbox with a dusting of this or that... it works well and seems to follow its own set of rules. From where I'm at in season 3, it seems to have gotten a bit vapid, though.

I don't like the IDW approach on paper. Nothing seems -- forgive me if this sounds mean -- lazier than just jambalayaing together characters and stories from existing universes created by others.
What about in practice though?
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Old 11-03-2016, 05:45 PM   #8
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I'm with Andrew. Nick works better on paper but IDW in execution. Nick's reimaginings are sometimes underused, make you wonder why they even bothered, or just plain weird.

Really though, new original characters and stories are the way to go.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:27 PM   #9
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One thing I can see The IDW comic doing, is combining Old Hob with Verminator X from the Archie comic, if at some point he becomes half mutant half cyborg.



Given how Alopex is IDW's answer to the Archie comic Ninjara, They can do something with Old Hob, He wears an eye patch, so if he becomes a cyborg, his right eye can be cyborgnetic.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:36 PM   #10
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What about in practice though?
In practice it can be fun. I'm not even saying IDW is doing a bad job at it... they clearly have spent a really, really long time trying to figure out how to incorporate everything into... everything.

But it's, like... fanfiction fun. It's just rearranging the puzzle pieces of other people's puzzles to make your own puzzle... that's not good prose.
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Old 11-03-2016, 06:56 PM   #11
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Gun to my head, I kind of like the Nick approach on paper. When you accept it's sort of set in some kind of... heightened reality, old Playmates TMNT toys sandbox with a dusting of this or that... it works well and seems to follow its own set of rules. From where I'm at in season 3, it seems to have gotten a bit vapid, though.

I don't like the IDW approach on paper. Nothing seems -- forgive me if this sounds mean -- lazier than just jambalayaing together characters and stories from existing universes created by others.
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In practice it can be fun. I'm not even saying IDW is doing a bad job at it... they clearly have spent a really, really long time trying to figure out how to incorporate everything into... everything.

But it's, like... fanfiction fun. It's just rearranging the puzzle pieces of other people's puzzles to make your own puzzle... that's not good prose.
Nailed it.

I like both, but I much prefer how Nick has handled this, for the most part.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:29 PM   #12
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I prefer Nick's approach. Whenever I see an old character in Nick, it's a cool homage and a new twist on an old character. But with Bludgeon specifically, I don't know why IDW renamed him, since he and Armaggon are the same characters. I love Nick and IDW though, and I love how they bring back old characters, and make new ones.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:33 PM   #13
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I prefer Nick's approach. Whenever I see an old character in Nick, it's a cool homage and a new twist on an old character. But with Bludgeon specifically, I don't know why IDW renamed him, since he and Armaggon are the same characters. I love Nick and IDW though, and I love how they bring back old characters, and make new ones.
Bludgeon and Armaggon aren't anything unlike. Armaggon may still appear in IDW down the road
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:44 PM   #14
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Gun to my head, I kind of like the Nick approach on paper. When you accept it's sort of set in some kind of... heightened reality, old Playmates TMNT toys sandbox with a dusting of this or that... it works well and seems to follow its own set of rules. From where I'm at in season 3, it seems to have gotten a bit vapid, though.

I don't like the IDW approach on paper. Nothing seems -- forgive me if this sounds mean -- lazier than just jambalayaing together characters and stories from existing universes created by others.
I prefer IDW, mainly because I prefer that they've remained focused on their overall story and not become bogged down in filler one-off toy commercial episodes.

Also, I think they've made huge original contributions to the TMNT mythos as a whole, with Old Hob, Kitsune, and the reincarnation angle. Also our first sympathetic Oroku Saki who achieved (partial) redemption.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:24 PM   #15
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I'm just getting started with the new comics, so I can't really say, but I think the Nickelodeon show has been a lot of fun, being the same but different. it scratches that itch, where you still want it to be like it was, but now it's fresh and new, like a remix.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:45 PM   #16
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Mutanimals

Wasn't Archie Slash's origin explained just in the Mutanimals comics?
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:50 PM   #17
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Also our first sympathetic Oroku Saki who achieved (partial) redemption.
The first sympathetic Oroku Saki can be found a ways into the Archie material. Somewhat.

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Wasn't Archie Slash's origin explained just in the Mutanimals comics?
On Palmadise? Yeah. Though I think he verbally covered it beforehand.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:54 PM   #18
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The first sympathetic Oroku Saki can be found a ways into the Archie material. Somewhat.



On Palmadise? Yeah. Though I think he verbally covered it beforehand.
I just recall Krang, Slash and Bellybomb meeting on Morbus, and Krang recognizing Slash. They sneaked into a spacecraft and headed for one of the Eden planets, picking up Bebop and Rocksteady, and then flew further to Earth.
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Because of continuity and timeline errors, I've given up writing fanfiction based on the 1987-1996 animated television series. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles story, something many other fanfiction writers alredy do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:55 PM   #19
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I think a lot of you are forgetting that 15 years ago the only material to draw from was Mirage. And Archie started off as a loose adaption of the original cartoon and Playmates toyline before going off on its own plots.

Nick and IDW now come later in the franchise history where there's been Mirage, Original cartoon, Archie, movies, 2k3 cartoon, etc.

Is it really such a surprise Nick and IDW are just re-using old concepts from every series?
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:58 PM   #20
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I think a lot of you are forgetting that 15 years ago the only material to draw from was Mirage. And Archie started off as a loose adaption of the original cartoon and Playmates toyline before going off on its own plots.

Nick and IDW now come later in the franchise history where there's been Mirage, Original cartoon, Archie, movies, 2k3 cartoon, etc.

Is it really such a surprise Nick and IDW are just re-using old concepts from every series?
Aren't you meaning 25 years ago? (unless you just mean comics)
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Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan
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