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Old 04-13-2018, 04:01 PM   #1
neatoman
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Did the dialogue get worse over time?

So I got the DVDs for Season 4 and marathoned through them. Here's the thing, I noticed that a lot of the dialogue didn't seem to make much sense. Seemed like the characters just said things because they would seem dramatic, but ended up feeling cliché and a little out of place.

Here's an example from The War for Dimension X:

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Originally Posted by The War for Dimension X
-They have fought the Kraang and are worthy of your help.

-The Utrom are already aware of the Turtles and all of the good they have done for the planet Earth.

-So why didn't ya help us before?

-Because Earthlings cannot always be trusted! You are an irrational species. Still, you should know the truth about the Utrom.
Never mind how Rook seemingly thought of the Turtles as humans, did anything else about this make sense? The council say they are aware of all the good they've done, yet say they haven't helped out before (keep in mind that Bishop's intrusion technically hadn't happened yet) because they didn't feel they could be trusted. Then for some reason, they decide to segway into the origin of the Kraang, which nobody asked to know about. (And the following origin story is the reverse of what Bishop claimed in the season 3 finale, but that's a different type of flaw in the writing). The episode provide plenty examples of what I'm talking about, it's just that I noticed that one in particular as weird.

The point is that I didn't really notice as much awkward dialogue in the earlier seasons, which makes me wonder if it got worse with time?
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:01 PM   #2
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I don't think the dialogue got worse, that's just how the Utroms speak, despite their English being better than the Kraang.

Do you mean the dialogue of the show's later seasons as a whole, or just the way the Utroms speak?
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:59 PM   #3
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All I know is I could've done without Casey & Kraang Sub-prime saying "Awesome" so much.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:53 PM   #4
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And Mikey's scream... (Collecting his screams together and putting them in an infinite audio loop could be a valid tool of torture.)



I never really paid much attention to that with the dialogue to be honest. But I can see what you're saying, that maybe some of it could have a little more substance to make it actually mean something more, rather then the writing only trying to sound cool.

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Never mind how Rook seemingly thought of the Turtles as humans
How so? I just figured that as alien beings not form Earth they just lump all Earthlings (mutant Turtle people, humans, and other creatures alike) together as a wider 'species' label as far as the universe is concerned. And also their source of hesitation to help the Turtles, still maybe not entirely trusting them, despite the good they've seen. They'd have surely seen plenty of good out of humans, too, but only to see people turn around and do plenty of bad, too; and the TMNT to them probably still appear quite human in many ways.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:56 PM   #5
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And Mikey's scream... (Collecting his screams together and putting them in an infinite audio loop could be a valid tool of torture).
Don't give the U.S government ideas
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 04-14-2018, 02:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post

Do you mean the dialogue of the show's later seasons as a whole, or just the way the Utroms speak?
As a whole. Another example would be when Karai finds out Shredder has mutated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Karai
You you've become everything you loathe. Everything you hate. A mutant!
These sorts of lines seem to have been written with the intention of sounding good on their own, but make very little sense (if any) in context. This one would have worked if Shredder had actually shown anti-mutant sentiment before. He didn't, in fact, his whole inner circle consisted of mutants midway through season 2.

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And Mikey's scream... (Collecting his screams together and putting them in an infinite audio loop could be a valid tool of torture.)
I wouldn't go that far but Greg Cipes can't pull off a dramatic scream to save his life... Or a funny scream... Or a scream of terror... Or even a convincing scream of any kind.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:42 AM   #7
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I didn't have a problem with that line, though Shredder never said "I hate Mutants" I didn't think he liked them, (though I thought there was a little more respect for Tigerclaw) even if he did use them for his advantage . I think he found the turtles repulsive but can't remember exact the words he used.

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Old 04-14-2018, 10:05 AM   #8
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Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owari
You killed him! He was your brother, and you killed him! He was your brother, Saki, your best friend! How could you do that? Hyah!
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:16 AM   #9
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Oh... Yeah, that's another good example of this.
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronardo View Post
Yes.

You killed him! He was your brother, and you killed him! He was your brother, Saki, your best friend! How could you do that? Hyah!

Also see my sig.
I think I understand what you mean, but personally I liked that quote in the finale. I only wish that scene - and Shredder's momentary doubt and hesitation - had been longer, just to create a bit more emotional depth to everything that had happened, and as a way to emphasize that choices do have consequences.

Without any real build up, that quote felt forced in a way. It's not that Leo had shown an intention of saving Shredder before. So why trying to appeal to his conscience now?

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Old 04-15-2018, 04:40 AM   #11
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Dialogue is one of the Nick TMNT show's very strongest suits, in my opinion. Over the others.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JH24 View Post
I think I understand what you mean, but personally I liked that quote in the finale. I only wish that scene - and Shredder's momentary doubt and hesitation - had been longer, just to create a bit more emotional depth to everything that had happened, and as a way to emphasize that choices do have consequences.

Without any real build up, that quote felt forced in a way. It's not that Leo had shown an intention of saving Shredder before. So why trying to appeal to his conscience now?
Though they were at the point where Shredder had to be gone, Leo likely was just saying what he was feeling, he was grieving and couldn't understand why Shredder would do that and feel nothing. I got why he was letting up, the 'hiyah' at the end, yeah.. but...kids show..
I wish I'd been on here a little sooner so far as talking about this show goes but I managed to catch the end at least.

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Old 04-15-2018, 06:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfan View Post
Though they were at the point where Shredder had to be gone, Leo likely was just saying what he was feeling, he was grieving and couldn't understand why Shredder would do that and feel nothing. I got why he was letting up, the 'hiyah' at the end...kids show..
I wish I'd been on here a little sooner so far as talking about this show goes but I managed to catch the end at least.
I just realized I had never looked at that scene from that angle, I never realized it was more about Leo dealing with his emotions and grief.

Thanks for the insight, newfan. I just learned something new. Heh, it actually makes me want to re-watch the finale again.

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Old 04-15-2018, 06:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JH24 View Post
I just realized I had never looked at that scene from that angle, I never realized it was more about Leo dealing with his emotions and grief.

Thanks for the insight, newfan. I just learned something new. Heh, it actually makes me want to re-watch the finale again.
Just they way I viewed it, may not have been meant that way
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Though they were at the point where Shredder had to be gone, Leo likely was just saying what he was feeling, he was grieving and couldn't understand why Shredder would do that and feel nothing.
That was the point. Though it doesn't help the line's case that it feels horribly stilted and fake (like much of the dialogue from seasons 3-5) just by how it's constructed. "You killed him! He was your brother! You killed him! He was your brother!" is just repetitive and is not something Leo would say. I could see it working without the repetition but it sounds ridiculous as is.

Also doesn't help that Seth Green's delivery of "How could you do that?" almost sounds deliberately tongue-in-cheek in the most climatic moment of the show. I don't blame him, though, given that kind of dialogue, it's hard for most actors to make it sound good.
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:08 AM   #16
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It might also be worth pointing out that the "How could you kill your brother?" line happens to be in the same exact episode as this one:

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Welcome, tartarugas. I will slap you like a salamander! I will fin you like a flounder! I will give you bass to mouth!
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronardo View Post
That was the point. Though it doesn't help the line's case that it feels horribly stilted and fake (like much of the dialogue from seasons 3-5) just by how it's constructed. "You killed him! He was your brother! You killed him! He was your brother!" is just repetitive and is not something Leo would say. I could see it working without the repetition but it sounds ridiculous as is.

Also doesn't help that Seth Green's delivery of "How could you do that?" almost sounds deliberately tongue-in-cheek in the most climatic moment of the show. I don't blame him, though, given that kind of dialogue, it's hard for most actors to make it sound good.
Just re-watched Owari I misread 'hyah' as 'Hiyah' when commenting on that in my other post, so dropping my comment on that. As for the repetition, placing an emphasis on what Shredder had done, also that can happen when someone is trying to take something in that they are shocked or overwhelmed with. (though Shredders desire to kill Splinter wasn't a new thing) I can accept that as grief talk but can agree they could have dropped one of the 'he was your brother' lines.

Not depending the fish face lines pointed out above
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