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Old 11-25-2020, 10:15 AM   #1
sdp
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The original vision aka did fans make the movie worse?

Did fan outrage give us a worse movie? Sure there are some stories that make it sound like fans know better, they changed Sonic's design for the better but it was only the CG the movie was the same in the Sonic Movie, literally nothing else changed. The original Blue Door script maybe didn't sound excellent but it could've been better?

What did the 2 creators of TMNT think of the original version? Laird also stated that he felt the "ill-conceived plan" could be a "genius notion", as it would allow fans to have the multitude of bipedal anthropomorphic turtles that they have been asking for. AKA he hated it but he knew it was what fan wanted. Kevin Eastman on the other hand called it awesome easily the best Turtle movie yet.


We have a turtle-planet backstory from an alien race, they also told us that the ooze was alien tech which is true so it could've played a role in the origin. Still the same turtle origins with Ooze only from a planet. The easier more marketable Ninja Turtles name for the movie could've been better, "Teenage Mutant" just sounds silly for zoomers.

We get a white Colonel Schrader, which would've made the story and origin more relevant instead of having Eric Sacks AND Shredder when its clear they're supposed to be the same character and makes more sense for them to be one. They also told us this:

Quote:
He continued that the Turtles were the same as fans remember and regardless of the title change they still act like teenagers. He urged everyone to give everybody who was involved a chance, as they had the fans interest at top priority and would not let anybody down

I think the backlash made them take some rash decisions that didn't go well with what they already had planned since it conflicted. I think many will agree some parts like the "family" relationship the turtles had worked. The story doesn't but that's because it was thrown in at the last minute changing big aspects of the origin to appease fans but conflicted with the original vision. The original vision might've been nothing like anything TMNT before but it could've been a new fun interpretation just like those weird alternate reality Mirage stories from Vol.1, something new even if different and far more successful than just a mediocre version of the story we already know.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:03 AM   #2
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Yeah, I do think without all the backlash being taken into consideration, we would have had a better film than what we got. At least it would have been a somewhat original vision, and they really seemed to be going after a hardcore "Souls Winter" vibe until they took a look at the angered mob of fans covered in Fred Wolf bumper stickers.

Not saying it would have been the TMNT movie I wanted by any stretch, but what we ended up with was a total abomination.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:44 PM   #3
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Oh dear god no. Eric Sachs "white man Shredder" is one of the worst ideas ever, and alien Shredder and alien Turtles/Splinter is even more bad.

It's bad enough we got stuck with the Turtle nostrils/noses and Hulk Turtles, but the original idea was even worse. PLEASE GOD LET IT DIE
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp View Post
Did fan outrage give us a worse movie? Sure there are some stories that make it sound like fans know better, they changed Sonic's design for the better but it was only the CG the movie was the same in the Sonic Movie, literally nothing else changed. The original Blue Door script maybe didn't sound excellent but it could've been better?

What did the 2 creators of TMNT think of the original version? Laird also stated that he felt the "ill-conceived plan" could be a "genius notion", as it would allow fans to have the multitude of bipedal anthropomorphic turtles that they have been asking for. AKA he hated it but he knew it was what fan wanted. Kevin Eastman on the other hand called it awesome easily the best Turtle movie yet.


We have a turtle-planet backstory from an alien race, they also told us that the ooze was alien tech which is true so it could've played a role in the origin. Still the same turtle origins with Ooze only from a planet. The easier more marketable Ninja Turtles name for the movie could've been better, "Teenage Mutant" just sounds silly for zoomers.

We get a white Colonel Schrader, which would've made the story and origin more relevant instead of having Eric Sacks AND Shredder when its clear they're supposed to be the same character and makes more sense for them to be one. They also told us this:




I think the backlash made them take some rash decisions that didn't go well with what they already had planned since it conflicted. I think many will agree some parts like the "family" relationship the turtles had worked. The story doesn't but that's because it was thrown in at the last minute changing big aspects of the origin to appease fans but conflicted with the original vision. The original vision might've been nothing like anything TMNT before but it could've been a new fun interpretation just like those weird alternate reality Mirage stories from Vol.1, something new even if different and far more successful than just a mediocre version of the story we already know.
Whatever you're smoking.... stop. You got a bad batch.

The movie was **** from the getgo. When they have to waste time overthinking their origin and change Shredder around, you knew you had a bomb on your hands. JKISS
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:23 PM   #5
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Yes, the fans made it worse.

Its almost always better to let a creator present their original and un-altered vision, without any outside pressure.

Alien Bayturtles would've been bad, but it would not have been forgettably bad as the current 2014 film is.
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The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:29 PM   #6
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The original script where Splinter and the Turtles are aliens? Where Shredder is some kind of spiky monster? Where Casey is a night guard of a warehouse? Where April is some intern? Where Krang is some monster that murdered the Turtles real father? Where the plot is about collecting some mystic set of orbs? Where it all ends with Mike hanging out with some turtle chick? And where Bebop and Rocksteady are the only things not entirely overhauled (even though they're just about the only characters that would desperately require a massive overhaul)?

Yeah, no. That movie would have been awful adaptation of TMNT and a painfully generic action movie at best. It essentially sounds like Alex Kurtzman watched the Fred Wolf cartoon, realised what David Wise was doing and decided the best way to pay tribute to him by sloppily rewriting a Stargate script to feature TMNT characters.

And sorry if I bring it too much, but why the fock are Bebop and Rocksteady considered so damn sacred?! Seriously I don't get it. They are horrible characters in the Fred Wolf cartoon, Steve Murphy obviously didn't like writing them and they weren't really in any movies or TV shows outside of the Fred Wolf cartoon until Viacom bought the franchise. So why the actual hell does Viacom think they matter enough to rush out as quickly as possible and to not drastically reimagine?
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:47 PM   #7
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I doubt fans made it worse... only different.

Blue Door was interesting, to say the least, but not a concept I want for the TMNT. While it came across as potentially a more visually rich film (if it would have even lived up to its screenplay and had even more money), I hated the separating them from being fellow Earthlings and thus a part of us and belonging here with us, different as they may be. And then it ended with separating them from each other forever? That's just heartbreaking and not a good note to end on.

It could be a concept they could revisit... but with other original characters, not the TMNT. Not with character people are still going to care about the next day and the day before.

Still, the only thing I'd be interested in coming from the "aliens" concept is using those alien "turtles" as invaders that OUR Turtles save the world from. Because who else knows best how to deal with turtle-like beings.

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Old 11-25-2020, 03:53 PM   #8
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It was good that they abandoned the alien thing. But they definitely doubled down on the horrible designs after those went public and there was nothing but backlash. I felt this was part of the motivation of announcing the sequel the Monday after (a very mediocre) opening weekend.

"Neener neener neener—these ugly turtles you hate just made us a bunch of money, so we're DOING IT AGAIN."
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:53 PM   #9
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I had a mental breakdown in 2014 when those nostril Turtles were revealed for the first time. It's 6 years later and I have yet to fully recover.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:00 PM   #10
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Think of the 1993 Super Mario Bros live action movie, it's a cyberpunk movie that has nothing to do with the real Mario but it's a fun cult movie. Perhaps the original vision was not TMNT but it could've been its own thing. Imagine making some last minute decisions on that live action movie of Mario to make it more like the games, it would've just been a bigger mess without an identity and still not a mario movie.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:50 PM   #11
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Though to be fair that was trying to make a movie based on game characters still pretty early in the...franchise?...and not nearly as much background to take from yet compared to now.

Might have been the difference of 1990 having been weird and bombed (and never knowing what we missed) vs a movie bombing today when the expectations are higher?
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:53 PM   #12
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The original ideas they had for the movie were bad. The "revised" ideas they tried to work in after the fan backlash were bad, or at least poorly-executed, but at least more on-track with what they should have been doing all along.

It was NEVER going to be any good because the wrong people made it. Blaming the fans is ridiculous. The project was run by f*cking chimps. Stop apologizing for and enabling them. It was going to be a pile of sh*t no matter what happened. The only way it could have turned out "good" was for them to simply abandon the project entirely. We'd all be better off.

As is, at least it's a terrible movie that at least halfway resembles Ninja Turtles.

"Let's just be New and Different for New and Different's Sake" is always, always, always a bad idea.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Think of the 1993 Super Mario Bros live action movie, it's a cyberpunk movie that has nothing to do with the real Mario but it's a fun cult movie. Perhaps the original vision was not TMNT but it could've been its own thing. Imagine making some last minute decisions on that live action movie of Mario to make it more like the games, it would've just been a bigger mess without an identity and still not a mario movie.
Except the Mario movie was the only one. The turtles already had other movies that were closer to the source material.

Your example only works if somehow someone made a good Mario movie, or series of movies ... And then some hacks got the rights and made the Bob Hoskins version thinking it was better.

Unlike Mario, the turtles already had better movies out there to compare it to, at least the first one.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:44 PM   #14
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Giant Turtle hulks who bullets can bounce off of, wearing tons of accessories and clothing items fighting a white guy Shredder vs. giant Turtle hulks who bullets can bounce off of, wearing tons of accessories and clothing items fighting a Japanese Shredder?

Who cares? Those are both terrible, ghastly awful non-TMNT-like things.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:04 PM   #15
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Clothing and accessories were not actually part of the problem. Irrelevant when it comes to making a good TMNT movie.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:13 PM   #16
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That's not what they look like.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:14 PM   #17
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Clothing and accessories were not actually part of the problem. Irrelevant when it comes to making a good TMNT movie.
Very relevant. Ninjas wouldn't have jingly jangly things all over their bodies -- it makes them incapable of performing as ninjas and, as such, a sham.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:17 PM   #18
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Between that, the bulletproof gimmick, and the ground literally cracking beneath their feet on account of their sheer mass, let's be real... those imposter TMNT were the worst "ninjas" ever.

I hope every single person who worked on those movies had at least one bout of dysentery. Serves 'em right.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:48 PM   #19
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Very relevant. Ninjas wouldn't have jingly jangly things all over their bodies -- it makes them incapable of performing as ninjas and, as such, a sham.
Nor would they wear a mask over their eyes that trails behind their head and signals their position.. it's just a fun visual. Same with the clothing, but it also works to inform character. Actually the clothing makes more sense for them than a mask would.
The clothing design wasn't done well here but it was the least of the films issues.
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