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Old 06-11-2007, 06:48 PM   #21
Jo Dawn
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I think they should at least attempt a PG-13 for the next movie. I mean, what's to lose? It can kinda show where more of the fanbase lies, in the kiddy corner or the adult table.
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Old 06-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #22
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Hey, you should send this interview to Dan over at the official site.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:13 PM   #23
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For example, it's more than implied in TMNT that Leo killed that man in the jungle in the beggining of the film.
I didn't get that impression at all. Probably hog-tied him somewhere for being the obviously evil Hispanic he's supposed to be an empty self-caricature of.
Leaving it up to the audience to decide what happens is how they avoided exceeding the contractually-obligated PG rating. Those guys were soldiers. Hog-tying them won't stop them from abusing their authority. But, they leave the option to the audience for you to draw your own conclusion.
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:10 AM   #24
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Of course not. But they shouldn't be shyed away from either.
But why self-censor, why stop short and sell ourselves short of the original vision of the TMNT in the Mirage source material? For what reason?
because the turtles have a different style audience now. its more than older comic fans they have to think about when it comes to the property. plus the original vision of the turtles was not just about the violence . thats selling yourself short if the fact that they didnt copy that exactly the way they did in the comics is your big concern

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In any case, the TMNT comics hardly revolve around casual swearing and glorified killing (and I'm not sure there's any "glorified" killing in the comics... it's handled quite subtly/tactfully when we see it, and always as only a necessary evil).
and the same is done in TMNT, the original film and to a lesser extent the 2k3 cartoon. the big difference being that the turtles aren't covered in blood after fighting, they don't swear and they dont drink beer. those are really the only big differences from how the original comics portrayed their adventures and how the other mediums portrayed it.



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The first movie is as close as we've gotten (still stopping short of the original vision... but it has the fortune of being an otherwise great, uplifting movie in its own right), the new movie is a backwards Pokemon mess, its only compelling aspect being the bits of brotherhood/family that are there.
to each their own on that one because there are plenty of people who felt the new film captured the vibe of the original comics



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I didn't get that impression at all. Probably hog-tied him somewhere for being the obviously evil Hispanic he's supposed to be an empty self-caricature of.

But the Turtles didn't off the Shredder (he offed himself) and nothing in the movie gives anyone any reason to make us believe these are suddenly Ninja Turtles that kill.
that's the point--it can go either way. if you want to believe the guy is alive and well you can. but the fact that we see the man armed and rushing Leo, followed by Leo rushing him and we hear nothing but this man screaming, with no body to be found can also imply that Leo plain and simply got rid of him. thats how you play to both audiences without challenging the edgier nature of the original comics. sometimes less is more.

and about the turtle skilling Shredder yeah we can argue the semantics of it. I imagine your reffering to the fact that Shredder died on his own in TMNT 2 but you have to remember that the film is not a direct sequel but it does say that certain events from all of their continuites ranging from the original movies to the original comics have all happened. as it stands its implied that it was the turtles that got rid of the Shredder, as stated during the opening narration and the fact that Karai wants revenge on them for his death. granted it could go either way in the sequel but its implied that things did not happen exactly the way they did in the previous films, thus my 'the turtles offed the Shredder' observation


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Aren't there plenty of kids out there of all ages that like X-Men and Wolverine and such? There's killing and the like in that... should only 18 year olds be allowed to read/look at that stuff? Would a 13 year old feel alienated by seeing Wolverine kill an enemy?

Egads, they're ninjas, not a barbershop quartet!
yeah, whats your point? because they showed blood and swore its neccessary for the turtles to do the same? blood and swearing does not neccessarily equal better. and yeah they are ninjas, and they fought as ninjas, minus blood shed. your big beef is that there was no blood or swearing. your short changing yourself if thats your main issue. death, revenge and killing is implied they just do it in a subtle matter considering yeah, its a PG film. the turtles beat up plenty of people and the only thing they didnt due was show blood or the turtles on screen killing someone (and even then like I said the idea that the turtles have fought people to the death is implied). as it stands it looks as though during the next film they plan on putting more emphasis on that stuff but even in this film its not ignored. they just don't point arrows at it saying "hey look blood and killing!"
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:48 AM   #25
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You're quite right, I have no point. It's perfectly sensible to have Wolverine attacking his opponents with peperoni sticks for claws, to chew bubblegum instead of puffing cigars, or to have the Punisher switch to SuperSoakers and just "imply" his killing (or have viewers come up with a fanfiction to say, "Don't you see! He must have killed in that scene! You can tell because he would've!") rather than showing anything.

It's not like killing has ever been part of the Ninja Turtles' source material or anything, and we all know filtering/censoring source material to fit a toy market and toddlers (and to make sure not to make any country angry, anywhere) can only be for the best.
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:53 AM   #26
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You're quite right, I have no point. It's perfectly sensible to have Wolverine attacking his opponents with peperoni sticks for claws, to chew bubblegum instead of puffing cigars, or to have the Punisher switch to SuperSoakers and just "imply" his killing (or have viewers come up with a fanfiction to say, "Don't you see! He must have killed in that scene! You can tell because he would've!") rather than showing anything.

It's not like killing has ever been part of the Ninja Turtles' source material or anything, and we all know filtering/censoring source material to fit a toy market and toddlers (and to make sure not to make any country angry, anywhere) can only be for the best.
Is it really that big a deal that you see Raphael gut someone? I'll fully admit that yeah I like the idea that the turtles are pretty much trained assasins but I don't see that being denied in the new film. there is nothing that denys that aspect of their background other then the fact that they didnt make a big visual deal out of it by showing bloodshed. its wasn't neccessary to show bloodshed to make one believe that the turtles are Ninjas so they didnt show it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:05 PM   #27
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Is it really that big a deal that you see Raphael gut someone? I'll fully admit that yeah I like the idea that the turtles are pretty much trained assasins but I don't see that being denied in the new film. there is nothing that denys that aspect of their background other then the fact that they didnt make a big visual deal out of it by showing bloodshed. its wasn't neccessary to show bloodshed to make one believe that the turtles are Ninjas so they didnt show it.
You make a sound argument, but it really boils down to... you go to a movie about the Ninja Turtles, and you don't get anything ninja-esque out of it without mentally fanficcing stuff into it (despite such content existing in the source material)... something ain't right.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:34 PM   #28
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Okay. I hear ya. But, the Ninja Turtles have never done anything ninja-esque at all on-screen. Likely, they never will. It's worse business sense than the anti-classic-'toon policy Peter Laird supposedly has. I'd like to see it done too, but unless someone has the gaul to set a precedent (which would probably be a completely out-of-pocket venture), we'll never see any more than we have in a motion picture format.


P.S. - I really complicate things by refusing to call the classic 'toon 'the OT'. But, doesn't it seem a tad disrespectful to call it a synonym for 'Off-Topic'? O_o That's how I see it.
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Old 06-14-2007, 02:11 PM   #29
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Very nice interview.

Good questions!
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Old 06-14-2007, 07:08 PM   #30
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You make a sound argument, but it really boils down to... you go to a movie about the Ninja Turtles, and you don't get anything ninja-esque out of it without mentally fanficcing stuff into it (despite such content existing in the source material)... something ain't right.
First, great interview! It's nice getting a glimpse into the director's head.

And I hear what you're saying, Andrew too. There are so many incarnations of the turtle empire it can be downright schizophrenic! What, we've got old toons, new toons, 4 different movies, Archie comics, Image comics, Tales, and Mirage - all with slight variations on the same theme. Geez, within Mirage you have different artists/writers coming in giving different books their own perspective on the boys.

The movies have, for the most part, been a softer version of the turtles. It wouldn't be bad to have a movie that catered more to the Mirage incarnation.
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Old 06-14-2007, 10:40 PM   #31
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You make a sound argument, but it really boils down to... you go to a movie about the Ninja Turtles, and you don't get anything ninja-esque out of it without mentally fanficcing stuff into it (despite such content existing in the source material)... something ain't right.
Hmmm... well, considering one of your posts from another thread about WHERE was it that people were expecting blood and guts and other things-- I'm confused by this post.


Okay-- Jungle scene-- guy with machetti faces off with Leo-- Leo draws katana-- both charge eachother-- cut to scene of canopy of trees, birds suddenly startled into flight, and the cry of a human as he is attacked-- NOT tied up and left for humiliation.

Meanwhile, back in the Battle Nexus, Gen (from Usagi Yojimbo) faces off with some random "person"-- they charge each other in the time-honored tradition (of films)-- SLICE/SLICE-- Both are standing (Gen in foreground, opponent with back to camera behind)-- then the opponent falls to his knees before he is magicked away by the Daimyo's healers.

Sorry, folks, but I do NOT need to see the fat bully's intestines spilling from his freshly opened obese belly. I do NOT need to see blood and gore and detail to know that someone has (as my friend Chris would say during our long ago D&D games) bitten the big Cinnamon Cookie.

Kids are not stupid. The kids in my class who saw the film KNEW that Leo offed that guy in the jungle, and they didn't need to see it played out frame by frame.

Meanwhile, yet another ****ing gorefest has been unleashed upon the public-- I am speaking of "Hostel 2"-- and frankly, remembering the FIRST COMIC of TMNT, Shredder died OFF CAMERA!!!! You did NOT see his body parts blown all over the damn page.


"Innuendo" is NOT Italian for anal sex. And the movie-going public-- even FIFTH GRADERS FROM South Central-- are NOT clueless.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:45 AM   #32
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- and frankly, remembering the FIRST COMIC of TMNT, Shredder died OFF CAMERA!!!! You did NOT see his body parts blown all over the damn page.


"Innuendo" is NOT Italian for anal sex. And the movie-going public-- even FIFTH GRADERS FROM South Central-- are NOT clueless.
:: Immature Mikey-type snickers::
"Innuendo" Good one.

Having the violence happen off-camera is a Mirage tradition. E&L even spoke of doing that in some interview...somewhere .....can't remember where I read it. Maybe Eastman's Artobiography? There were exceptions to that rule, of course, but it seems there was an effort not to indulge in too much, oh, what was Dan Berger's phrase? "Adolescent" bloodshed.


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Old 06-15-2007, 12:51 AM   #33
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It's also interesting to compare Kevin's original layouts for the Bodycount story, where virtually all of the crazy violence happened off-panel. It was all Simon Bisley's doing that it all ended up on-panel.
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:29 AM   #34
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Oh, and Raph-- I'm sorry I got caught up in the debate here before saying this:
Great interview!

I love Munroe's casual mention of a "third installment". What a tease!
Unless he actually knows something we don't......

Anyway, good job!


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Old 06-15-2007, 11:41 AM   #35
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Hmmm... well, considering one of your posts from another thread about WHERE was it that people were expecting blood and guts and other things-- I'm confused by this post.
Since when does being a ninja mean blood and guts? It just means they kill. I'm OK with implied killing off-panel (or off-screen)... as long as there's an actual tangible implification, not a fanfiction.

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Okay-- Jungle scene-- guy with machetti faces off with Leo-- Leo draws katana-- both charge eachother-- cut to scene of canopy of trees, birds suddenly startled into flight, and the cry of a human as he is attacked--
And probably knocked out and tied up, since to suggest he did would be the only time we've ever seen a cinematic Turtle kill... and then why would he go so easy on the hundreds of Foot in the courtyard fight?

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NOT tied up and left for humiliation.
Maybe in a fanfiction. The movie I saw nobody gets killed.

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Sorry, folks, but I do NOT need to see the fat bully's intestines spilling from his freshly opened obese belly. I do NOT need to see blood and gore and detail to know that someone has (as my friend Chris would say during our long ago D&D games) bitten the big Cinnamon Cookie.
No apology needed, folks, because neither do I.

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Kids are not stupid.
They also have a big imagination.

With this kind of logic, we don't even need any PG-13 or R-rated movies. All the killing and action can just be off-screen, as any child clearly can just figure out exactly what happens in-between scenes.

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Meanwhile, yet another ****ing gorefest has been unleashed upon the public-- I am speaking of "Hostel 2"-- and frankly, remembering the FIRST COMIC of TMNT, Shredder died OFF CAMERA!!!! You did NOT see his body parts blown all over the damn page.
But you neglect to mention that what you do see is buckets of blood in that fight, and Shredder very clearly being ran through the stomach with Leo's katana.

I'm not a big fan of the current wave of "Torture Porn" (ala, Hostel, Touristas, Saw, etc.), but I don't see any correlation between it and either what TMNT is in any incarnation or what it should be.

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Old 06-15-2007, 11:47 AM   #36
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It's also interesting to compare Kevin's original layouts for the Bodycount story, where virtually all of the crazy violence happened off-panel. It was all Simon Bisley's doing that it all ended up on-panel.
Really not a big fan of Bodycount, but just reading it you get a big sense of Eastman & Bisley just balling out and having a hell of a time together on it. Most of it is a nonsense plot, with very graphic violence just for the sake of very graphic violence.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:11 PM   #37
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:54 PM   #38
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Which movie sites or message boards? I've never seen any people seriously championing an R rated TMNT movie to those specifics.

Should they kill folks and get in bloody fights with a couple of swear words in there, though? Absolutely, and you can get away with this even in PG-13.
Do you ever look back 10 years and go, "Sh*t. I've been saying exactly the same thing for a decade"?
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:47 PM   #39
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Do you ever look back 10 years and go, "Sh*t. I've been saying exactly the same thing for a decade"?
Yes, I have posts on other forums dating back to like 2001-2002 for other franchises where I say the same thing now.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:04 PM   #40
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It's mostly because people don't seem the grasp that a TMNT movie can actually have blood and swearing without excessive. They can't seem to grasp the idea that people getting killed/sliced up during a ninja fight isn't the same as excessive blood and gore and people's heads getting chopped off left and right. No, we don't need to see Raph gut someone, he's never gutted anyone in the comics. But he does, you know, actually stab people.

The Turtles actually.... USE their weapons. Leo doesn't use his swords just to block hits or cut other things. He cuts people. Same with Raph. Don and Mikey use their weapons to hurt people. Not trip them up with pizzas to the face or whatever. The Foot themselves are out to kill the turtles, and aren't supposed to trip all over themselves. In fact if you really look at the Bay movies... the Turtles throwing tankers around and shoulder ramming the Foot is yet another way to get around having them actually cut them up. But hey, we can have dick jokes, fart jokes and Megan Fox bending over to make it more adult.... right?

And I do like Andrew's Wolverine example. It's a perfect example. His stories can be somewhat bloody to extremely excessive depending on the writer, but you just can't, CAN'T put him in a live action movie, and not expect him to actually use his blades on people. Hell, the X-Men movies have done an excellent job showing him hack and stab people with minimum blood.

All I'm saying is if you got guys running around with swords and other sharp objects, let them use them. Don't make it a gorefest, in fact, please don't, but if you want things taken seriously, a little blood won't hurt.

Much like Tim Burton opened everyone's eyes that Batman wasn't just silly slapstick and cartoon bombs, which led to the awesome Animated Series, which also paved the way for awesome DC animated movies.... I'm sure once someone has the balls to finally do a TMNT movie with the kids gloves off, it'll open a whole new audience to people that want to see these turtles kick some ass.
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