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Old 09-11-2016, 09:24 PM   #61
MsMarvelDuckie
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Chiming in with my two cents here- the issue Zar mentioned with Peter and M-J having a future with two kids (the one in which Pete was visited by the One Above All) was WELL before the beginning of the OMD arc. I have the issue somewhere, and it was, if memory serves, tied to the Other storyline. Peter was having doubts about his life as Spidey after killing Morlun (again) and the point was to reassure him that his efforts and sacrifices were well worth the past cost- or something to that effect. Basically it was a sort of "Its a Wonderful Life" type of story.

As for Annie- yes she is indeed intended to be that second child- the one Mephisto so cruelly hinted would never be because Peter took his deal. The interesting thing with her is that you get a three-way namesake- Aunt May, Mayday(who would have been Aunt May's namesake to begin with) and Anna May Watson. May seems to be the traditional name for Parker women for some reason. And even in the aborted alternate future from the "Happy Birthday" arc in which Peter had achance to prevent his past self from ever being bitten by the fateful arachnid, their son was named Ben. So there have been several alternate timelines with future kids now- though that one ended badly, with Peter killed by a SWAT team for being a fugitive after accidentally killing a crook.
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:06 PM   #62
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There is on Comicvine I believe, but it requires looking through pages worth of one thread to find it.
Remember what the name of the thread was? (Some day when I'm in the need of down time, I could see myself taking the trouble to hunt it down.)


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Slott's opinions on the marriage vary to the point you can't be sure if he is for or against it. Yeah his main book material indicates that he's against it, but he's working with a reality that's been altered by devil magic so you never know if what Peter and MJ do to each other is sincere or caused by Mephisto.
For reference, is the idea that the post-OMD Peter and MJ being under demonic influence from the comics themselves, or a reader's theory?

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He said in one interview that the marriage is like Charlie Brown kicking the football, but in the actual RYV story he shows just how much more mature Peter is in the role of a hero and a father and there are no bitter consequences or moments of doubt for the couple (except for that one bit at the end where MJ wonders if Peter would have killed Regent if Annie had been harmed, but she's not mad at him or anything). He even ends the story with "this life doesn't mean the end of yours"

Slott said in a Comicvine video interview (you can find this one easily on Youtube), Peter and MJ without the marriage in the main books is "no fun" to write for because they can't go anywhere else...but in the same interview he says MJ is a limitless character when she is married to Peter.

Also, during Spider-Verse, he actually made Peter and MJ's son Benjy (from Mayday's MC2 universe) a vital part of a prophecy and an object of the Inheritor's quest, and he went out of his way to protect the Spider-Man Newspaper Strip (prior to this year's RYV, the only other ongoing series which uses the marriage) from the events of that story and later from the incursions of the Secret Wars event by having Inheritor Karn seal it off in a pocket dimension (which it's since broken free of)
Interesting. (The newspaper comic, I suppose he would've needed to have left alone anyways, since that's not his story to tell.)


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So yeah, I think while Slott does have his own ideas about the marriage, he's slightly bi-polar on the subject. You sort of just have to accept that he's a notorious spinster who will say and do things that everyone wants to hear and read, so long as it gives him and the company a sizeable buzz.
Okay.

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Cool. Like that.

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Chiming in with my two cents here- the issue Zar mentioned with Peter and M-J having a future with two kids (the one in which Pete was visited by the One Above All) was WELL before the beginning of the OMD arc. I have the issue somewhere, and it was, if memory serves, tied to the Other storyline. Peter was having doubts about his life as Spidey after killing Morlun (again) and the point was to reassure him that his efforts and sacrifices were well worth the past cost- or something to that effect. Basically it was a sort of "Its a Wonderful Life" type of story.
I kind of recall it being a "Back in Black" thing (never read it myself, just going off of what I've heard), which was the the last stuff before OMD. (I recall that that ending scene and the "To Have and to Hold" comic are/were among the favored arguments against OMD.

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As for Annie- yes she is indeed intended to be that second child- the one Mephisto so cruelly hinted would never be because Peter took his deal.
Then why does she seem to be born years before the OMD timeframe, probably even before Mayday would've born?

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The interesting thing with her is that you get a three-way namesake- Aunt May, Mayday(who would have been Aunt May's namesake to begin with) and Anna May Watson. May seems to be the traditional name for Parker women for some reason. And even in the aborted alternate future from the "Happy Birthday" arc in which Peter had achance to prevent his past self from ever being bitten by the fateful arachnid, their son was named Ben. So there have been several alternate timelines with future kids now- though that one ended badly, with Peter killed by a SWAT team for being a fugitive after accidentally killing a crook.
Very interesting.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:58 AM   #63
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I don't knnow the specifics of how the timeline was changed post OMD after the beginning of the Spider-Island arc, but this is one of the reasons the entire BND timeline simply does not work- it created too many snarls and ret-cons for the "new" timeline to ever make any sense. Annie's entire existence seems to hinge on that scene where Mephisto taunted them with the "now she will never be born" jab. Other than that, I can't see any ties between her and the pre-OMD timeframe. Bur then there have been a number of "branching" realities created by the fiasco so almost anything is possible, I suppose. Mayday WAS the "official" firstborn child, and her death (or even birth) is one of the biggest snarls in the BND timeline. They basically erased her from ever having existed at all, from what I've seen.
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:53 AM   #64
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For reference, is the idea that the post-OMD Peter and MJ being under demonic influence from the comics themselves, or a reader's theory?
It's sort of a theory that has had canonical solidification in snippets from interviews and the main books. Based off interviews with JMS about his meetings with Quesada (the infamous "it's magic, we don't have to explain it" comes from them) what MJ says to Peter before the deal takes effect in OMD ("No matter what he does to us, we'll find a way to be together"), and recent stuff in Spider-Man/Deadpool (Peter no longer remembers Mephisto, but Mephisto taunts that he is responsible for the ultimate fall)

And I can verify the "Book of Peter", the story where Peter meets the One-Above-All and is assured of his future with MJ and their kids, takes place during Civil War and prior to OMD.

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Old 09-12-2016, 09:52 AM   #65
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I don't knnow the specifics of how the timeline was changed post OMD after the beginning of the Spider-Island arc, but this is one of the reasons the entire BND timeline simply does not work- it created too many snarls and ret-cons for the "new" timeline to ever make any sense.
I'll take your word for it.

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Annie's entire existence seems to hinge on that scene where Mephisto taunted them with the "now she will never be born" jab. Other than that, I can't see any ties between her and the pre-OMD timeframe.
I guess the way I saw it was that one of the differences between the RYV timeline and the 616 version (let's just focus on the pre-OMD versio, however and wherever that exists "now"), is that in the former, Peter and MJ conceived a child earlier than the did otherwise. In other words, Annie's birth is one of the differences, along with Captain America's new uniform and the like.

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Bur then there have been a number of "branching" realities created by the fiasco so almost anything is possible, I suppose. Mayday WAS the "official" firstborn child, and her death (or even birth) is one of the biggest snarls in the BND timeline. They basically erased her from ever having existed at all, from what I've seen.
As I've said before, I thought the comic branched off between the Parker/Watson marriage and the '90s Clone Saga. While I'm not dogmatic about that (since it could just be a universe that "always" stood alone, a la the Ultimate universe or the Raimi/Webb/MCU movies), if I'm right, then the RYV Parkers were already raising their iteration of the family while OMD was doing whatever it did in 616.

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It's sort of a theory that has had canonical solidification in snippets from interviews and the main books. Based off interviews with JMS about his meetings with Quesada (the infamous "it's magic, we don't have to explain it" comes from them) what MJ says to Peter before the deal takes effect in OMD ("No matter what he does to us, we'll find a way to be together"), and recent stuff in Spider-Man/Deadpool (Peter no longer remembers Mephisto, but Mephisto taunts that he is responsible for the ultimate fall)
Okay.

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And I can verify the "Book of Peter", the story where Peter meets the One-Above-All and is assured of his future with MJ and their kids, takes place during Civil War and prior to OMD.
Okay.

Since Marvel apparently declared the scene to be in a different universe, I guess I'm not sure if we can still apply it to the post-OMD 616 universe (on one had I'd like to, but on the other hand, I think that 616 has taken too much damage to be salvaged and that the married Spider-Man iteration should have an alternative home.

On the other hand, the parallel universe label does mean that there's a place where the ASM Spider-Man comics from the beginning to 2007 exists completely intact and no OMD, so that's a win, IMHO.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:26 AM   #66
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On the other hand, the parallel universe label does mean that there's a place where the ASM Spider-Man comics from the beginning to 2007 exists completely intact and no OMD, so that's a win, IMHO.
Much the same as a universe where everything from the begining to 2010 exists for the Spider-Girl comic with no Spider-Verse affecting Mayday or her family there (as hinted in one of the supporting stories by Spider-Girl's creators during that story)

I am hoping the RYV we see this year is from a universe which has a lot of the history intact, which has been the whole point of our discussions lately.
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:00 PM   #67
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Much the same as a universe where everything from the begining to 2010 exists for the Spider-Girl comic with no Spider-Verse affecting Mayday or her family there (as hinted in one of the supporting stories by Spider-Girl's creators during that story)
Yeah, pretty much. Might be a little anal of me, but its about the only way I can enjoy reading any 616 materials, so I'll take it. (Now, it only they'd do the same thing for Ultimate Spider-Man...)

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I am hoping the RYV we see this year is from a universe which has a lot of the history intact, which has been the whole point of our discussions lately.
Any particular stuff you'd like ported over? (As long as the characterizations are intact, I'm actually not too fussy about the backgrounds or what stories fit on the same timeline. In fact, I don't really care whether RYV the series is in continuity with the Secret Wars RYV or not.)
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:23 PM   #68
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Mayday's birth/death occurred shortly after the Clone Saga. AFAIK, Annie SHOULD have been born sometime after the Civil War/Back in Black timeframe, as M-J was showing the first signs of being pregnant during Back in Black, specifically a scene after Aunt May was shot, while Peter and M-J were in hiding due to both Kingpin's hit going out and being considered a fugitive after he switched sides during Civil War. (He later went to the Raft to visit Fisk in prison and threatened to actually break his "no-kill" rule on him personally if Aunt May died because of the assassination attempt. It was one of Spidey's most brutal moments ever.) In the scene (I think it was at the hospital but it could have been their hotel room- I don't recall exactly which) M-J is in the bathroom throwing up while Peter mentions something about hot dogs. This seems to make her even sicker..... The implication was that she was having a bout of morning sickness, so Annie clearly should have been born sometime after that. Probably during the Secret Invasion if their marriage had remained intact.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:11 PM   #69
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Why does Annie need to be the same character as that unborn kid from the OMD future that never came to pass? In the original RYV comic, at the time when Annie was an infant, it's established that Spider-Man is not very well-known to the superhero community, his secret identity is not known to any of his fellow superheroes, and he's never been an Avenger, all things that are not true during "Back in Black," but are very true in the pre-Clone Saga era.
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:33 AM   #70
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There's a theory I have that ties in to MJ's offer to Mephisto to put Peter's life "back the way it was", and that she would offer him something in return.

Now, in OMIT, MJ's offer boils down to "you will leave him alone" and Mephisto agreeing to that, saying this "did'nt happen", which is entirely Quesada's stupid attempt at making sure everything tied together without the marriage, and it's something that Alonzo has been ignoring since Mephisto hasn't been leaving Peter alone per the events of Spider-Man/Deadpool (and he even interfered in Flash's life during his stint as Venom).

The feeling I'm getting, judging from the clues left behind in "Power Play", is that the RYV Peter and MJ are in fact going to be revealed as the real ones, that right after they "vanished" at the end of OMD they were transported to a different reality and had their memories altered, but MJ was still pregnant with Annie so she still gave birth to her a few months later. MJ's offer to Mephisto was to put Peter's life back the way it was, which meant no Avenger membership, Spider-Man being an outsider again, a lot of other things.

The twist though is in RYV's world, Aunt May dies, and Peter is forced to go back on his no-kill code to defeat Venom, so there was a karmic twist to things. Peter and MJ's lives are only normal to a point, and then fate forces them to adjust to new dangers and status quoes.

616 Peter and MJ may eventually be revealed as constructs of Mephisto who only exist because they are mystically tethered to that "small part of their souls" that remember the original timeline in 616...but in reality, what if the RYV Parkers are the manifestation of that small portion? And that ultimately both halfs may have to be "merged" eventually?

As for what I'd like ported over...certainly Norman Osborn back in prominence as being in charge of SHIELD/HAMMER with the Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers in his back pocket. Also, Harry and Liz as a couple again.

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Old 09-13-2016, 12:27 PM   #71
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Why does Annie need to be the same character as that unborn kid from the OMD future that never came to pass? In the original RYV comic, at the time when Annie was an infant, it's established that Spider-Man is not very well-known to the superhero community, his secret identity is not known to any of his fellow superheroes, and he's never been an Avenger, all things that are not true during "Back in Black," but are very true in the pre-Clone Saga era.
Even that doesn't really fit though. He WAS still quite well-known to other heroes because by that point he hafld been interacting with many of them pretty often. Also the only ones who knew his identity were primarily Daredevil, Wolverine, and the New Avengers once he joined them. No one else did except Green Goblin and Venom. Everyone else who knew didn't find out until he came out at the beginning of Civil War.

This is not super well-known outside the (defunct) Marvel forums at the time, but JMS actually wrote TWO endings for OMD. The other one had Peter and M-J reject Mephisto's deal, and Annie would have subsequently been born in that version. Unfortunately Quesada disallowed that ending and that is one of the biggest reasons JMS left the book immediately after the OMD arc. So yes, she WAS intended to be that same child originally. However as I mentioned before, the retcons (and there are MANY) created by OMD/BND has caused a great deal of confusion and stories that no longer match up. More so with all the universe-merging and dissolving that has gone on due to the Regent storyline. We now have at least three "versions" of the main 616 Spidey history that diverge in important ways, all because of that original snafu of the deal with Mephisto. As I recall, the scuttlebutt around the Marvel site at that time was that M-J's deal with him had something to do with the child she was carrying, and involved a "backdoor" reset to allow them to have their life together back. That was hinted at by at least one staff member then and was also hinted by JMS himself at one point. He was VERY pissed at having been told to write that marriage-ending plot after he had spent a good part of his run making it important and interesting again. He felt it was a slap in the face to be told that none of it was going to matter going foreward.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:21 PM   #72
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There's a theory I have that ties in to MJ's offer to Mephisto to put Peter's life "back the way it was", and that she would offer him something in return.

Now, in OMIT, MJ's offer boils down to "you will leave him alone" and Mephisto agreeing to that, saying this "did'nt happen", which is entirely Quesada's stupid attempt at making sure everything tied together without the marriage, and it's something that Alonzo has been ignoring since Mephisto hasn't been leaving Peter alone per the events of Spider-Man/Deadpool (and he even interfered in Flash's life during his stint as Venom).

The feeling I'm getting, judging from the clues left behind in "Power Play", is that the RYV Peter and MJ are in fact going to be revealed as the real ones, that right after they "vanished" at the end of OMD they were transported to a different reality and had their memories altered, but MJ was still pregnant with Annie so she still gave birth to her a few months later. MJ's offer to Mephisto was to put Peter's life back the way it was, which meant no Avenger membership, Spider-Man being an outsider again, a lot of other things.

The twist though is in RYV's world, Aunt May dies, and Peter is forced to go back on his no-kill code to defeat Venom, so there was a karmic twist to things. Peter and MJ's lives are only normal to a point, and then fate forces them to adjust to new dangers and status quoes.

616 Peter and MJ may eventually be revealed as constructs of Mephisto who only exist because they are mystically tethered to that "small part of their souls" that remember the original timeline in 616...but in reality, what if the RYV Parkers are the manifestation of that small portion? And that ultimately both halfs may have to be "merged" eventually?
In all honesty, I think I'd like the two versions to remain separate. I'm not sure a merging would work out well for marriage fans, I prefer the idea of RYV being its own iteration of the franchise rather than a piece to a bigger puzzle that I'm not that interested in (post-OMD 616 comics have nothing of value to me), and I kind of think that 616 is damaged beyond repair.

(My gateways to the franchise were the original Raimi movies and the pre-Miles Morales Ultimate comics, so I will concede that I'm not too strongly attached to 616 as lifelong readers, being that it was never "my" version. So, it was more of "OMD ruined a parallel universe version of my favorite comci book character" -- albeit one that I would've liked to have read without the OMD scars -- instead of "OMD ruined my favorite comic book character." I do like the pre-OMD stuff I've seen that accurately reflects the aforementioned materials, though.)

If Marvel was going to bring the RYV Parkers into 616 in some fashion, I'd rather it go like what DC did for the Kents; have them living their own lives elsewhere in the world, maybe even kill of the OMD 616 versions of Peter and MJ and let the RYV Parkers take over as the main versions of the characters.

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As for what I'd like ported over...certainly Norman Osborn back in prominence as being in charge of SHIELD/HAMMER with the Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers in his back pocket. Also, Harry and Liz as a couple again.
It would be interesting to know what Norman Osborn was up to during Regent's reign in RYV (assuming that he appears in the new series, that the new series is in continuity with the original miniseries, and that Osborn cheated death after "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" like he did in 616).

Harry and Liz Allen were a couple? I don't think I've seen that version before. I know that Liz was in love with Peter in the Spectacular Spider-Man, which had Harry interested in Gwen Stacy. In the Raimi movies, Harry had feeling for Mary Jane (who, of course, fell in love with Peter). The Ultimate comics had Harry and Mary Jane dating briefly before the series began, although it's a little unclear what Harry thought when Mary Jane (like in the movies) fell hard for Peter.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:38 PM   #73
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Harry and Liz were actually married for a time but had separated in part because of his drug issues. This was after the college years and the Peter/Gwen/M-J triangle was resolved (ie Gwen's death). They even had a son together if memory serves.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:20 PM   #74
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Harry and Liz stayed together until Harry died in the 1990s. He remained dead for well over a decade.

After OMD, his death was retconned and it was revealed he had actually survived and was put into hiding by Norman Osborn and Mysterio. Harry married a couple of more times and then returned to New York where he had another child with the villain known as Menace. He and Liz still get along, even if Harry works for Peter and Liz is constantly trying to sabotage Parker Industries.

She's kind of turned into a bit of a b*tch sadly.

In MC2, Harry and Liz's son Normie predictably became the next Green Goblin, and Liz died from an illness shortly after Mayday first became Spider-Girl (Liz had remarried by this point to her then-90s love interest Foggy Nelson)

Harry's revival is another one of those things that makes no sense in the context of OMD, as Norman's whole motivation for coming back twenty years ago was that he was AVENGING HARRY'S DEATH. It's also his whole motivation for killing/kidnapping Mayday

Dan Slott tried to sweep this under the rug by having Mysterio, I kid you not, advise Norman to "method act" and mentally commit to the notion Harry was dead so he'd sound convincing to anyone he brought it up to.

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It would be interesting to know what Norman Osborn was up to during Regent's reign in RYV (assuming that he appears in the new series, that the new series is in continuity with the original miniseries, and that Osborn cheated death after "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" like he did in 616).

I reckon they could save Norman perhaps for a closing arc in the series, but I do wonder just where he was. Hobgoblin showed up in the original mini-series, and Peter mentioned Harry in the Spider-Verse prelude to RYV. I'm sure we'll get some version of the Goblin in the series, but it's strange to think Norman hasn't struck out at Annie given how long it's been since she was born in the new series....even Venom struck hard at the Parkers when Annie was an infant.

In MC2 (where Norman also cheated death) Peter was still Spider-Man for two more years after Mayday was recovered from Osborn's grasp by Kaine and Norman did'nt attack the Parkers then, but it was explained later Norman had successfully cloned Mayday and was planning to mess with Peter's head later in life by making him think he'd been raising a copy of his daughter and that the clone (which was a living symbiote weapon called Mayhem) would ultimately destroy him. Norman died for real before he could see this plan through.

The clone ended up redeeming herself and briefly became Mayday's partner fighting crime until her aggressive tendencies got the better of her and she started killing, and it led to her sacrificing herself to save Mayday and avert a bad future.

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If Marvel was going to bring the RYV Parkers into 616 in some fashion, I'd rather it go like what DC did for the Kents; have them living their own lives elsewhere in the world, maybe even kill of the OMD 616 versions of Peter and MJ and let the RYV Parkers take over as the main versions of the characters..
The thing about the Kents is it's being heavily implied they are the original versions anyway, which is why I brought up that Marvel ought to try a similar trick with the RYV versions so we could start repairing the damage to 616, as the 616 versions act nothing like Peter and MJ. Revealing them as fakes or the worst aspects of their personalities made flesh would go a long way to at least acknowledge there's a problem

I doubt Marvel will go that route of course, but I think it's the best option to win back the crowd.

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Old 09-13-2016, 05:29 PM   #75
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Oh if ONLY I was writing for the Spidey book- you WOULD see that come to pass. It's pretty close to what I would do to fix it. Which would also involve Peter punching out Mephisto and doing to him what he almost did to Fisk.....
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:39 PM   #76
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Harry and Liz were actually married for a time but had separated in part because of his drug issues. This was after the college years and the Peter/Gwen/M-J triangle was resolved (ie Gwen's death). They even had a son together if memory serves.
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Harry and Liz stayed together until Harry died in the 1990s. He remained dead for well over a decade.

After OMD, his death was retconned and it was revealed he had actually survived and was put into hiding by Norman Osborn and Mysterio. Harry married a couple of more times and then returned to New York where he had another child with the villain known as Menace. He and Liz still get along, even if Harry works for Peter and Liz is constantly trying to sabotage Parker Industries.

She's kind of turned into a bit of a b*tch sadly.

In MC2, Harry and Liz's son Normie predictably became the next Green Goblin, and Liz died from an illness shortly after Mayday first became Spider-Girl (Liz had remarried by this point to her then-90s love interest Foggy Nelson)
Interesting. Wonder why the adaptions never did much, if anything, with Harry and Liz?

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Harry's revival is another one of those things that makes no sense in the context of OMD, as Norman's whole motivation for coming back twenty years ago was that he was AVENGING HARRY'S DEATH. It's also his whole motivation for killing/kidnapping Mayday

Dan Slott tried to sweep this under the rug by having Mysterio, I kid you not, advise Norman to "method act" and mentally commit to the notion Harry was dead so he'd sound convincing to anyone he brought it up to.
Why bring Harry back in the first place, though?


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I reckon they could save Norman perhaps for a closing arc in the series, but I do wonder just where he was.
Assuming he un-died like he did in the original comics, I suppose he was either in hiding himself, or had been re-killed or captured and put in a tank by Regent.

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Hobgoblin showed up in the original mini-series, and Peter mentioned Harry in the Spider-Verse prelude to RYV.
I never really understood why Hobgoblin was on Regent's team. As I understood it, Regent captured heroes and villains alike with superpowers and put them in his tanks, no exceptions. All his other minions are tech users only, but Hobgoblin has superpowers, since the idea is that the people who use that identity used Green Goblin's performance enhancer/globulan green/OZ/whatever. So, why wasn't Hobgoblin in a tank?

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I'm sure we'll get some version of the Goblin in the series, but it's strange to think Norman hasn't struck out at Annie given how long it's been since she was born in the new series....even Venom struck hard at the Parkers when Annie was an infant.
We'll see. It'll be interesting to see if RYV the series brings back mostly surviving old characters, or if we'll be getting a lot of new ones instead. I do have to admit that, because of the first RVY story, I'm kind of more intrigued by the idea of the RYV Parkers needing to deal with a surviving Venom symbiote than yet another Spider-Man/Green Goblin fight.

Maybe Goby didn't have a chance to target Annie (either deciding that it was better to stay hidden from Regent or Regent ended him first)? That's all assuming that he knew in the first place that the Parkers had a child and/or hadn't forgotten who Spider-Man really was (as I understand happens sometimes).



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The thing about the Kents is it's being heavily implied they are the original versions anyway, which is why I brought up that Marvel ought to try a similar trick with the RYV versions so we could start repairing the damage to 616, as the 616 versions act nothing like Peter and MJ. Revealing them as fakes or the worst aspects of their personalities made flesh would go a long way to at least acknowledge there's a problem
Did not know that. Although, if the original Spider-Man comic is canon in both 616 and RYV, I could see the argument that RYV Spider-Man has as much claim to being the original version as the 616 one does, esp. if RYV branches off from the original timeline long before OMD did.

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I doubt Marvel will go that route of course, but I think it's the best option to win back the crowd.
What about the fans who like the current comics, or consider the post-OMD Spider-Man to be "their" version of the mythos?

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Oh if ONLY I was writing for the Spidey book- you WOULD see that come to pass. It's pretty close to what I would do to fix it. Which would also involve Peter punching out Mephisto and doing to him what he almost did to Fisk.....
I'd read that.
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Old 09-14-2016, 03:10 AM   #77
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What about the fans who like the current comics, or consider the post-OMD Spider-Man to be "their" version of the mythos?

The post-OMD fans would probably react the same way New 52 Superman fans are currently...but keep in mind the reaction to the loss of N52 Superman is easier to put up with because he was only around for five years, where as post-OMD Spidey has been around for almost a decade.

What about the fans who liked everything for the 20 years the marriage was a part of the regular books? If Marvel threw their hands up and decreed we no longer mattered, how safe are THOSE fans?

Hell, what about fans during the Clone Saga? Imagine being told back then the Peter you followed most of your life was a clone? Marvel were serious at the time about making Ben Reily the real deal and it almost killed the book.

OMD almost killed the book too...in fact, Slott's current run is killing the book, it's had embarrassing placements in the top twenty lately, and the only reason it was number one a couple of weeks ago was because DC took a break.

We got another pic from Stegman btw

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Old 09-14-2016, 11:17 AM   #78
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The post-OMD fans would probably react the same way New 52 Superman fans are currently...but keep in mind the reaction to the loss of N52 Superman is easier to put up with because he was only around for five years, where as post-OMD Spidey has been around for almost a decade.
How did New 52 Superman fans react (I don't track DC that much)?

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What about the fans who liked everything for the 20 years the marriage was a part of the regular books? If Marvel threw their hands up and decreed we no longer mattered, how safe are THOSE fans?

Hell, what about fans during the Clone Saga? Imagine being told back then the Peter you followed most of your life was a clone? Marvel were serious at the time about making Ben Reily the real deal and it almost killed the book.
I don't really know what the best answer is. I'm just saying that there are readers who'll be in the same boat as we are if OMD Spider-Man gets takes out of the equation. Because of that, I wonder if creating output targeted to both audiences is the best call over changing one to suite different audiences, since then the interests of one faction aren't being sacrificed for the other.

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OMD almost killed the book too...in fact, Slott's current run is killing the book, it's had embarrassing placements in the top twenty lately, and the only reason it was number one a couple of weeks ago was because DC took a break.
Isn't top twenty pretty good in and of itself? (I don't know how comic sales really work that well.) Also thought that the official statement is that Slott's Spider-Man is doing good business. Also, if Slott was not turning in a selling product, wouldn't he have been canned already? Even if Marvel likes his stuff, they are first and foremost a business. (I mean, I'm pretty sure that this RYV continuation is being made largely because of the original one's sales. If RYV Vol. 1 had bombed, I'm doubt we'd be getting a sequel.)

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We got another pic from Stegman btw

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsQ7D0aUAAEAe3S.jpg
Stegman does nice work.
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Old 09-14-2016, 11:42 AM   #79
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How did New 52 Superman fans react (I don't track DC that much)?
It's not gone well. A lot of them have made ageist comments towards Dan Jurgens (writer of Lois and Clark as well as Action Comics), and some have said pretty unsavoury things about the concept of the superkid Jon. It's even spilled over into hatred for the new Superwoman title because DC bait and switched the audience with promises of a N52 Lois-led book only to kill her off and replace her with Lana in the debut issue.

These people are pretty much a minority group though, given not many people cared about N52 Superman to begin with. The Superman books have been outselling the Spider-Man books by a considerable margin, always making the top ten.

Quote:
I don't really know what the best answer is. I'm just saying that there are readers who'll be in the same boat as we are if OMD Spider-Man gets takes out of the equation. Because of that, I wonder if creating output targeted to both audiences is the best call over changing one to suite different audiences, since then the interests of one faction aren't being sacrificed for the other.
I reckon they could just make Parker Industries it's own alternate world and still go with RYV being the main one. Alternate Spider-Man books always sell big. Spider-Girl was an alternate book (though it had more legit claim as a natural continuation than anything in 616 does presently) and went twelve years...and Peter was barely Spider-Man in that!


Quote:
Isn't top twenty pretty good in and of itself? (I don't know how comic sales really work that well.) Also thought that the official statement is that Slott's Spider-Man is doing good business. Also, if Slott was not turning in a selling product, wouldn't he have been canned already? Even if Marvel likes his stuff, they are first and foremost a business.
I just remembered ASM wasn't even in the top twenty in August, so yeah, there's that also.

I actually think the decision to put RYV forward has everything to do with how badly Slott's run is doing, not just because the original series was a success (and keep in mind, back when the first RYV series came out, it was pretty much the main Spider-Man book while the 616 volume took a summer break before relaunching). Marvel do not disclose digital sales either, but I've heard some rumblings about that too. ASM is in trouble, and a "stealth pilot" like RYV is required to see if the audience for the marriage can probably save it down the line.
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Old 09-14-2016, 01:37 PM   #80
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Considering how many readers jumped ship after it was axed Id say it's a good bet. I was right in the middle of the whole fiasco, and trust me, it WASN'T pretty. Those of us who were Modding those forums were overwhelmed by the massive amount of posts that got extremely vitriolic. If you guys think THIS place gets bad, you should have seen the height of the OMD rebellion. It was nasty. Fans went so far as to threaten hunting down Quesada (I really don't blame them) burn copies of the comic, riot, march on Marvel, etc.... I can't even remember how many forum members either left orvwere banned, butvit was in the dozens on both counts. There was so much anger at the time that when the boards crashed for several days shortly after the BND reboot, many members simply never came back once they were back up. I still had Mod status about two years later even after having barely posted for over a year (they changed the format and that killed the forums entirely) but it hardly mattered because they were nearly dead by that point. OMD did FAR more damage to Marvel than just one book. It killed a lot of the trust people had in the company, and few of tbe later decisions from the editorial staff helped matters.
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My various stories and fan-fics (including TMNT!!) are here:

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