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Old 10-17-2016, 01:31 PM   #21
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Enough with the ****ing OT Turtles they are like an STD on the franchise you can't get rid of them. lets move on and stop trying to remake OT.
Yeah, I was afraid this was gonna happen. I don't know when it became a thing to bash the OT for constantly being remade, the only example I can think of is "Out of the Shadows" and that's not even a proper remake, but of course, dromers always want to point fingers at the FW cartoon.

I think I would've gotten across my point better if I titled this thread something along the lines of "Should tmnt go back to 2D animation again?" but its done now.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:34 PM   #22
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Yeah, I was afraid this was gonna happen. I don't know when it became a thing to bash the OT for constantly being remade, the only example I can think of is "Out of the Shadows" and that's not even a proper remake, but of course, dromers always want to point fingers at the FW cartoon.

I think I would've gotten across my point better if I titled this thread something along the lines of "Should tmnt go back to 2D animation again?" but its done now.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:35 PM   #23
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Some of us grew up, pallie.
also Some of us found the 2003 and Nick Cartoons which take the turtles a lot more seriously and not make them the adam west of turtles.
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I respect what FW cartoon did for the turtles franchise but it is the most overrated and hard to watch of the 3 turtles cartoons.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:39 PM   #24
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Not to say it's a bad idea in principle, but I'd rather see a Netflix series based on Mirage or an IDW adaptation, leave the OT as a source of reference at best.

Also, this photo I feel applies here :
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:47 PM   #25
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also Some of us found the 2003 and Nick Cartoons which take the turtles a lot more seriously and not make them the adam west of turtles.
Thank you, Benz.

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Old 10-17-2016, 02:53 PM   #26
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People are still asking for OT remakes when we literally just got one that just hit the theaters as well as a TV show that's slowly becoming the OT all over again thanks to Brandon "Fanservice" Auman?

I mean, it's bad enough the toy line is becoming the OT toy line all over again, what with all this WWE nonsense and the sculpts being complete sh*t. Guys, grow up. The OT is fun for nostalgia purposes, but it was an 80s tactic that only worked in the 80s. This ain't the realm of Saturday Morning Cartoons anymore, this is the age of thought-provoking cartoons, dammit!

You already have your OT to look back on, I want my fully serious and thought-provoking television cartoon about mutant turtles who know ninjitsu, and I want it now! (So, no, I don't think this is a good idea at all. The franchise is already become more OT-ridden and less creative. Leave the OT be).
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:14 PM   #27
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Enough with the ****ing OT Turtles they are like an STD on the franchise you can't get rid of them. lets move on and stop trying to remake OT.
This. I love 'em but they need to stay in their era.

& if you wanna revisit the FW universe, do it in a new & smart way. Make a direct to DVD animated feature out of Turtles In Time for SNES.

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An anime film of the OT would be extremely profitable in Japan, where nostalgia for that show runs high. Get a Japanese production team who grew up on the original to work on it, and a studio like toei or gainax, and you'd have an amazing anime film on your hands. And if an OT anime were released in japan, an American release of such a well known property would be sure to follow.
Dafuc? No it wouldn't. Some folks there have nostalgia for it but it doesn't begin to compare to home-turf fans. Such a thing wouldn't be "extremely profitable" here where it's most popular, let alone overseas.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:18 PM   #28
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also Some of us found the 2003 and Nick Cartoons which take the turtles a lot more seriously
Eh... more than Fred Wolf but still pretty far from seriously.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:37 PM   #29
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Yeah, I was afraid this was gonna happen. I don't know when it became a thing to bash the OT for constantly being remade, the only example I can think of is "Out of the Shadows" and that's not even a proper remake, but of course, dromers always want to point fingers at the FW cartoon.

I think I would've gotten across my point better if I titled this thread something along the lines of "Should tmnt go back to 2D animation again?" but its done now.
Because a lot of us myself included, are really tired of seeing anything from that version. And keep in mind I like the IDW version a lot but even it's OT references are as blatant as the later seasons of the Nick cartoon has become. I would love for more Archie stuff or IMAGE being the versions I know the least. I would love to see anything from those versions (admittively I didn't care for Armaggon that much in Nick)
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:52 PM   #30
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Because a lot of us myself included, are really tired of seeing anything from that version. And keep in mind I like the IDW version a lot but even it's OT references are as blatant as the later seasons of the Nick cartoon has become. I would love for more Archie stuff or IMAGE being the versions I know the least. I would love to see anything from those versions (admittively I didn't care for Armaggon that much in Nick)
I'm not tired of the OT version, they can continue borrowing and referencing it in all incarnations, IDW has a lot of OT references since some of the characters were direct from the OT series.

The same for the Nick series, there are plenty of OT references and characters taken from it, but completely different takes on them.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:27 PM   #31
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This. I love 'em but they need to stay in their era.

& if you wanna revisit the FW universe, do it in a new & smart way. Make a direct to DVD animated feature out of Turtles In Time for SNES.



Dafuc? No it wouldn't. Some folks there have nostalgia for it but it doesn't begin to compare to home-turf fans. Such a thing wouldn't be "extremely profitable" here where it's most popular, let alone overseas.
YES, yes it would. I wasn't just talking about TMNT with nostalgia, Japan has an aging population who are embracing nostalgia all across the board. All gundam is being molded to 0079 to please the original fans and pander to nostalgia, Kamen Rider and Super Sentai are embracing their pasts to reel older fans in, as well. When the 2003 TMNT series was released there, it barely lasted a year, with much poorer ratings. Any Nostalgia they tap into will be for the OT, which was HUGELY successful there back in the day. I didn't mean demand there would be larger than in the US, I meant what nostalgia and good feelings they have for tmnt would center on the OT. That's the part of TMNT thaty has any kind of recognition in Japan, but I agree it's very small recognition.

Also, the darker and gritter TMNT material has a problem in Japan; while the 'martial arts/cycle of vengeance' angle in TMNT is more unique in the U.S., such anime and manga are a dime a dozen in Japan. There are manga out there with the same basic premise with TMNT, but does the whole story and narrative better. They are martial arts mangas that are gritter and have more mature themes, there are martial arts anime and manga that are far more bloody and violent than turtles will ever be. why go for the TMNT when you have Lady Snowblood? More serious TMNT is unique over here, but in the land martial arts fiction was born, TMNT is a very tiny fish playing in a very big an overcrowded pond. And pure gritty TMNT would just come off as a poor American imitation trying to ape the classics.
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:52 PM   #32
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YES, yes it would. I wasn't just talking about TMNT with nostalgia, Japan has an aging population who are embracing nostalgia all across the board. All gundam is being molded to 0079 to please the original fans and pander to nostalgia, Kamen Rider and Super Sentai are embracing their pasts to reel older fans in, as well. When the 2003 TMNT series was released there, it barely lasted a year, with much poorer ratings. Any Nostalgia they tap into will be for the OT, which was HUGELY successful there back in the day. I didn't mean demand there would be larger than in the US, I meant what nostalgia and good feelings they have for tmnt would center on the OT. That's the part of TMNT thaty has any kind of recognition in Japan, but I agree it's very small recognition.

Also, the darker and gritter TMNT material has a problem in Japan.
No, it wouldn't. Get your head outta the clouds. First of all, all big pop culture properties go through this cycle. When certain old demographics reach the point in their life where they're looking back on fonder days, they they become new demographics as that nostalgia is capitalized on. That is by no means a new or exclusive trend in Japanese media. Not sure what you're talking about with Gundams, they had a "please buy our model kits" cash-in show with Builders but it featured designs that span 30 years, & the new iterations have their own distinct looks. The others you mentioned are just doing the same thing TMNT & a host of other properties have done- mix the old & new to get fathers & sons simultaneously. But they're all beloved domestic franchises that have been successfully re-done many times over, of course it works.

TMNT was huge in Japan during Turtlemania, I'm not arguing that, but a resurgence would not have the same or similar impact, nor would it grant further lasting power. There's no way a western cartoon series is gonna get a modern 'anime' produced in Japan by a huge/prominent studio, let alone an independent one. Do you even know what the otaku market is like these days? Audiences there have become very finicky, & a significant chunk of anime viewers in the 2010's want cookie cutter "moe-blob" shows, which is to say cute girls doing cute things. While there are some action successes each year, a lot of their legacies end up as mere flavor of the month 12 episode manga adaptions that come & go without so much as a second season.

Japan isn't really on par with the USA when it comes to the consumption of foreign entertainment. It is an inclusive nation on many levels. Sure there are plenty of western films that get subtitled & released to welcoming excited crowds, but they're a novelty whose spectacle comes more from the higher budgets & quality CGI than it does a genuine appreciation of the source material. They don't get manga & anime made for them, at best they get a collector's toy from Good Smile Company & even then it's just for the most prominent of characters (like Batman & The Joker, for example) because there isn't enough love for the entire property to warrant the cost of producing more extensive lines.

4kids & the Nick series had strong starts & then immediately fell off. That's pretty telling of how the turtles are viewed in general there. They're a memory. Is it a fond enough memory to cash-in on in 2017 for the Japanese public? I doubt it. Sure, Viacom has made commendable efforts pushing the brand there, we've gotten some very cool items from overseas, the bay films had theatrical releases, even The Visual History book & (some) IDW comics were translated, but it's hardly booming.

& there you go once again trying to take subtle jabs at Mirage. Classic.
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:24 AM   #33
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The first season of the OT pretty much already is an anime movie. It was animated, pretty well, by Toei and it flows more or less end to end just fine. It was even released as a "movie" at least once, wasn't it?
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:44 AM   #34
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It was even released as a "movie" at least once, wasn't it?
Yeah, but it's hacked to bits and makes no sense narrative-wise. And one version have extra footage for later seasons episodes showed in.
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:22 AM   #35
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No, it wouldn't. Get your head outta the clouds. First of all, all big pop culture properties go through this cycle. When certain old demographics reach the point in their life where they're looking back on fonder days, they they become new demographics as that nostalgia is capitalized on. That is by no means a new or exclusive trend in Japanese media. Not sure what you're talking about with Gundams, they had a "please buy our model kits" cash-in show with Builders but it featured designs that span 30 years, & the new iterations have their own distinct looks. The others you mentioned are just doing the same thing TMNT & a host of other properties have done- mix the old & new to get fathers & sons simultaneously. But they're all beloved domestic franchises that have been successfully re-done many times over, of course it works.

TMNT was huge in Japan during Turtlemania, I'm not arguing that, but a resurgence would not have the same or similar impact, nor would it grant further lasting power. There's no way a western cartoon series is gonna get a modern 'anime' produced in Japan by a huge/prominent studio, let alone an independent one. Do you even know what the otaku market is like these days? Audiences there have become very finicky, & a significant chunk of anime viewers in the 2010's want cookie cutter "moe-blob" shows, which is to say cute girls doing cute things. While there are some action successes each year, a lot of their legacies end up as mere flavor of the month 12 episode manga adaptions that come & go without so much as a second season.

Japan isn't really on par with the USA when it comes to the consumption of foreign entertainment. It is an inclusive nation on many levels. Sure there are plenty of western films that get subtitled & released to welcoming excited crowds, but they're a novelty whose spectacle comes more from the higher budgets & quality CGI than it does a genuine appreciation of the source material. They don't get manga & anime made for them, at best they get a collector's toy from Good Smile Company & even then it's just for the most prominent of characters (like Batman & The Joker, for example) because there isn't enough love for the entire property to warrant the cost of producing more extensive lines.

4kids & the Nick series had strong starts & then immediately fell off. That's pretty telling of how the turtles are viewed in general there. They're a memory. Is it a fond enough memory to cash-in on in 2017 for the Japanese public? I doubt it. Sure, Viacom has made commendable efforts pushing the brand there, we've gotten some very cool items from overseas, the bay films had theatrical releases, even The Visual History book & (some) IDW comics were translated, but it's hardly booming.

& there you go once again trying to take subtle jabs at Mirage. Classic.
I didn't even mention mirage, I was referring to any future attempt to take a serious tmnt media over there; it would fail against domestic product. I do not, and have never, taken a pot shot at mirage. Just at certain sections of the fandom; and no I Don't take jabs at mirage fans, either. I like certain parts of volume one, and most of the image series, along with the usagi and savage Dragon crossovers. Drop this junk about me hating mirage, it's getting old.

My head is not in the clouds, you failed to notice where I said demand for any tmnt media in Japan is low, I was just pointing out if anyone remembers the Tmnt at all, it's usually the OT they remember, not 4kids or any other version. My point on gundam is during the 90's there was an attempt to keep things fresh with new material that paid homage to the original, but was it's own thing- gundam wing, g gundam, etc. But all I hear gundam fans complain about, both American and Japanese, is how they 'pander to U.C. fans now'. Same goes for laymen rider and sentai; decade and gokiager were anniversary seasons, but the fact the latter and their key gimmick keep popping up in team up movies is annoying both U.S. and Japanese fans. My point on that was with a shrinking market of kids in Japan thanks to a low birthrate, toy and anime companies are catering more to nostalgia there than they used to.

And again, I never said there was any demand for or nostalgia for tmnt in Japan, I was speaking strictly on what version they are going to remember if asked about it (though there might be a few that remember the film's.) So if say gainax or toei were handed the Tmnt for a Movie or OAV series, and given complete creative freedom, along with translated research materials on tmnt history, we'd still get a version with Krang, Shredder,Rocksteady, bebop, and the technodrome.

I've had it with this nonsense. I don't freaking hate mirage, I actually like parts of it. I recognise the OT is goofy and dumb, and I view IDW as my perfect blend of tmnt. This getting old, leave me alone.

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Old 10-18-2016, 06:56 AM   #36
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i get the vibe that alot of people think I am advocating for an entire generation of FW tmnt, I was just advocating for a modern remake of FW season 1 as a movie to kickstart to the next generation of tmnt which could be its own thing rather than being based off FW or mirage (anime tmnt anyone?).

While I can see where people are coming from when they say there's too much FW pandering, wouldn't it also feel a bit stale to have the next generation of tmnt based off mirage after the 2k3 series already did that for many years? I personally think the next generation should not be based off either, but be its own thing with a new style (2D anime! IDW style?),which is precisely what Ciro Nieli did when making the Nick show (Not based off FW despite how much it panders to it!)
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:52 AM   #37
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While I can see where people are coming from when they say there's too much FW pandering
It's fact. Nick/Viacom has done nothing but that post-sale. Which they made clear was their M.O. as witnessed by Dan Berger even while the sale was finalizing.
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:35 PM   #38
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i get the vibe that alot of people think I am advocating for an entire generation of FW tmnt, I was just advocating for a modern remake of FW season 1 as a movie to kickstart to the next generation of tmnt which could be its own thing rather than being based off FW or mirage (anime tmnt anyone?).

While I can see where people are coming from when they say there's too much FW pandering, wouldn't it also feel a bit stale to have the next generation of tmnt based off mirage after the 2k3 series already did that for many years? I personally think the next generation should not be based off either, but be its own thing with a new style (2D anime! IDW style?),which is precisely what Ciro Nieli did when making the Nick show (Not based off FW despite how much it panders to it!)
Aren't all versions of TMNT technically based on Mirage, no matter how loose? Even if you never took a direct look at Mirage and based a new version on other material, it would still be rooted in Mirage by proxy.

For as much as the FW cartoon threw out and added, it's still about four mutant turtles and a rat going through weird events. And if you throw that part out, what do you honestly have left to center new ideas around and still be able to call it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

You can get away from Fred Wolf, you can't truly get away from Mirage.
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:57 PM   #39
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Aren't all versions of TMNT technically based on Mirage, no matter how loose? Even if you never took a direct look at Mirage and based a new version on other material, it would still be rooted in Mirage by proxy.

For as much as the FW cartoon threw out and added, it's still about four mutant turtles and a rat going through weird events. And if you throw that part out, what do you honestly have left to center new ideas around and still be able to call it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

You can get away from Fred Wolf, you can't truly get away from Mirage.
While both are the same, the only thing difference was Splinter's origin, I like Splinter's origin in the FW series better, That's the origin that the Nickeldeon is using.
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:19 PM   #40
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Aren't all versions of TMNT technically based on Mirage, no matter how loose? Even if you never took a direct look at Mirage and based a new version on other material, it would still be rooted in Mirage by proxy.

For as much as the FW cartoon threw out and added, it's still about four mutant turtles and a rat going through weird events. And if you throw that part out, what do you honestly have left to center new ideas around and still be able to call it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

You can get away from Fred Wolf, you can't truly get away from Mirage.
I agree with you, but that's not what I meant. Of course you can't get away from mirage, it started tmnt as a whole but different versions follow mirage closer than others and what I am advocating is that the next show doesn't need to follow FW or Mirage as closely as the 2k3 series. Every version has the same basic premise while still being its own thing, that's the beauty of it all.

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