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Old 01-24-2017, 02:22 AM   #61
Tarris Vaal
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For my own two cents

* I agree with the general consensus on Leo - I find that he is more likeable, he is more flawed, but retains much of what was good about other iterations while expanding on them with hobbies etc.

And while I think I can see a lot of that in the IDW Leo as well, I think Nick's edges it - at least for me. And besides this thread is what the Nick version brought in

* A stronger focus on the turtles as Teenagers rather than young adults - which is something I've found 2k3 had a bad habit of doing.

* Easily one of the best Shredders - flawed, interesting, driven and ruthless.

* The Karai/Splinter family connection. I think this really has made a mark and will reappear consistently down the line.

* Don/April I also think - Like it or Loath it - will be a consistent thing that comes up from now on. It added a huge alternative angle to Don, who is otherwise all too easily relegated to 'does machines' (looking at you 2k7, OT, 2k3, 90s movies). Personally I overall thought this was a good idea, albeit with occasions that others have brought up regularly that were badly written or conceived by the writers. When it worked it worked well, when it didn't it was cringeworthy. Hopefully future efforts will see this as a lesson to be learned from and treat the idea more carefully.
I will acknowledge IDW did at least go a different route by avoiding this altogether, but still giving Don extra - so I think we'll see this crop up, but it may not necessarily be a major part of any future arc for him. Its still a good way of touching on the subject of 'love as part of growing up' whether it leads anywhere or not it remains a good lesson.

* New Villains and alternate versions - Xever/Fishface I really liked. Tigerclaw was awesome when he was the go to '**** about to go down' enforcer. The new take on Rahzar was great when it was threatening. Karai as a late teens teenager worked well. A less combaty Rat King focusing more on intelligence and cunning over brute force was very very welcome. Although I'm not a great fan of the Nick Bebop/Rocksteady, I did like Ivan/Anton as their own characters and the acknowledgement that there are more villain groups beyond the Dragons, Mafia and Foot.

* Casey/April as teenagers. Again a controversial subject but I think one that worked overall. It changed the dynamic in an interesting manner and allowed Splinter to take a father role to both of them. Again you could argue IDW kept them older, but that said it wasn't by much. I think this was a good experiment that showed reasonable results.

* Animation fluidity and style. The show looks great and has improved consistently over time. Proof that the CGI does work for the turtles in a TV medium.

* A greater focus on Stealth and Ninja skills, and a willingness not to shy away from darker subject matter. Yeah 2k3 had its moments too - fair enough - but even 2k3 didn't end a series with Splinter dead and the planet obliterated. It never showed a giant mutant stamping on a hero's arm with a gruesome snap. Nor did it show skeletal bodies of known characters or have a friendly character go insane and break a major protagonists bones on screen (April vs Raph). Nick has shown it can go that extra step and more importantly that doing so is to be Encouraged!



I'm sure there was more, but I think that covered everything important.

Overall this has been a good solid series with some risk taking and experimental ideas that - though they may not have worked well all the time, did at least try them and in many cases succeeded.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:09 AM   #62
Coola Yagami
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No.



Why on earth would you make such a bizarre statement? If anything we've learned about the TMNT franchise over 25+ years, is that ANY character can come back.

Just like we never expected to see Lord Dregg, Armaggon, Muckman, the Neutrinos (in IDW), etc ever again after the original series....and then they're all come back. So by the same token, I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the Nick created mutants return for a future series. You're also not thinking of how exposed the Nick show is to kids and how they'll have nostalgia for it when they get older like we did for the original cartoon.



Wow, as if IDW doesn't do mostly the same thing? Outside of some unique aspects like the Pantheon, the vast majority of IDW's plotlines and characters are just new takes on old stories we've seen for years.

The fact that we're about to begin another "Bishop tracks down the Turtles and other mutants story" in IDW says enough in itself.
I'm not counting the idw comics in this. You know kids don't read them as often and that has nothing to do with the nick cartoon. And unless the next cartoon is a straight up idea adaptation, you know it's not going to use references from that comic.

And yeah, the nick cartoon shows anyone can come back, but in doing so it didn't really do enough original story arcs or make enough new characters, or when it does it somehow turns the new characters into old characters at least in name only.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:49 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal View Post
* Easily one of the best Shredders - flawed, interesting, driven and ruthless.
Definitely. I like that they touched on the fact that he isn't just a relentless evil villain, but that he's basically insane and blinded by it.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:39 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
And yeah, the nick cartoon shows anyone can come back, but in doing so it didn't really do enough original story arcs or make enough new characters, or when it does it somehow turns the new characters into old characters at least in name only.
No it doesn't, so basically the same thing any TMNT incarnation does. 4kids Karai is Mirage Karai in name only. 4kids Rat King is Mirage Rat King in name only. IDW's versions of all the characters are older characters in name only.

All the new series do new takes on old characters.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:10 PM   #65
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No it doesn't, so basically the same thing any TMNT incarnation does. 4kids Karai is Mirage Karai in name only. 4kids Rat King is Mirage Rat King in name only. IDW's versions of all the characters are older characters in name only.

All the new series do new takes on old characters.
Guess you missed the point. Each new series adds new characters and plots that future series adapt. Mirage has the basics, the OT had all the extra mutants and technodrome. 2K3 had bishop and Hun. The nick show has.... um....? I mean what new story arcs do they have to work with?

Like I said, the only thing I'm seeing so far is giving the turtles different looks. If some other new incarnation makes April a teen again then we can point the finger at nick for the inspiration.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:16 PM   #66
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Stylistically it is/was... interesting. Like IDW, though, another study in "How can we blend together everything TMNT, ever" and not so much, "I have a really original vision for TMNT."

But hey. It's a cartoon for little kids, so whatever.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:40 PM   #67
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Quote:
The nick show has.... um....? I mean what new story arcs do they have to work with?
Quoted from Coola Yagami


Well to name a few;

* April's development into a combat capable character - from her induction into Ninja training in Season 1 to the emergence of a 'Dark April' in Season 5.

(and I am well aware not everyone was a fan of this - but then I wasn't fond of the storyline that said she was a pencil drawing. Swings and roundabouts eh?)

* Ivan Steranko and Zeck Anton as criminal elements distinct from the Foot.

* Nicks take on Slash and the introduction of Pigeon Pete - both of whom have now been incorporated into IDW.

* Timothy/Pulverizer storyline (admittedly, not seen through to a satisfying conclusion - yet)

* New mutants including the Creep, Fishface, Dogpound, Snakeweed, Tigerclaw, Spiderbytez, Chimera, Speed Demon, Mushroom men, Parasitica wasp, Dr Rockwell, Newtralizer and Serpent Karai - to name a few. Plus human originals like Shinagami.

Now I'll admit a lot of those are just elements and not 'arcs' but Nick did successfully implement a blend of Shredder's revenge arcs with the Kraang (Utrom) Invasion - including the added surprise of Kraang Sub Prime (another series original).

Season 3 and 4 have been more focused on existing older story arcs - but 4 concluded the Dark april arc (a Nick original) and gave us a decent Super Shredder arc (which is original in inception, even if not in concept)



Plus its not always necessary to invent a completely new story arc to work with, when you can instead take a fresh look at an existing one.

The Kraang invasion of Earth is hardly a fresh concept, but Nick did provide a very different technodrome, very different Rock soldiers, the Kraang as a completely reinvented enslaved hive mind, and a good origin of the mutagen.

Shredder's vengeance arc is also very much not original, but I think its fair to say that Nick has put a unique variant of it out there.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:02 PM   #68
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i'm really hoping the whole Donatello being all Hawt Dawg over April vanishes after this series is done!

no . . . . . . . . . . thanks.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:40 PM   #69
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That even with a big as IP as TMNT, Nick still sucks ass.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:43 PM   #70
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i'm really hoping the whole Donatello being all Hawt Dawg over April vanishes after this series is done!

no . . . . . . . . . . thanks.
That or anyone else. Between nick Don and PDC Mikey please don't make the next Raph or Leo want her.

I didn't mind it as much on the nick show but they didn't execute it properly and made Don come off as creepy at times. Had April liked him the same way it woulda been a different story.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:45 PM   #71
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Yeeeeah.....

I'm fine with the Turtles having little crushes on people, including human people, but Donnie is overboard and not a good example of 'how to crush on someone.'

And April's lack of ever saying a damn thing despite being fully aware. I get it, it's awkward for her, but come on. (And worse when they have her throw confusing signals.)
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:49 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
That or anyone else. Between nick Don and PDC Mikey please don't make the next Raph or Leo want her.

I didn't mind it as much on the nick show but they didn't execute it properly and made Don come off as creepy at times. Had April liked him the same way it woulda been a different story.
i agree. i didn't like the idea of April being reduced to just an object of desire for any character.

and true! Don did come off as WAYYYYYYY too creepy for a kid's cartoon.
even if she did like him back the same way, not something i wanna see


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Yeeeeah.....

I'm fine with the Turtles having little crushes on people, including human people, but Donnie is overboard and not a good example of 'how to crush on someone.'

And April's lack of ever saying a damn thing despite being fully aware. I get it, it's awkward for her, but come on. (And worse when they have her throw confusing signals.)
^ THIS TOO!!!!
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:03 PM   #73
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I really enjoyed this series from the introduction of new characters like Xever and Tiger Claw as well as Shinigami to the revamp of existing characters such as Mutagen Man, Rahzar, and Rat King. I also like Karai as Splinter's daughter and this Leo has to be my favorite incarnation of him ever. He is still the serious leader while still having a hobby of his own and is a bit of a geek which we can all relate to at times. I didn't mind the Donnie crush and while I did think he went a bit overboard on some things, we have to remember that he's lived in the sewers for most of his life so he doesn't know how to act around humans or how to express his love properly. But he did correct himself a few times overall when April got a little upset over some things.

I also liked all of the references we saw to past incarnations plus the crossovers with the OT Turtles. It felt like a great love letter to the franchise as a whole so I was very pleased with it. If season five is indeed the end, then this was a great run. I think this has to be my favorite out of all the cartoon franchises and will always be the one I think about when people ask me about TMNT and it definitely will be the universe I write about in my stories.

I also agree about 2K3 Leo being very one dimensional with his interests. Nick Leo is definitely better in this regard.
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:51 PM   #74
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if the series does end after season 5, i wonder how long it'll be before someone decides to try to do another Tmnt cartoon or if it'll lay dormant for a while?
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Old 01-24-2017, 06:55 PM   #75
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And now we face the biggest fear we had since the buyout. Nick owns the tmnt and they probably won't be letting them go any time soon even if they never intended to use them again like so many nicktoons past. So after this series is done it'll be up to them if they want to do a revival.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:27 PM   #76
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Interspecies mating is possible.

And Leorai ftw (it's not incest since they're not blood related).
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:28 PM   #77
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While I think that the show was/is surprisingly decent at its best, it was/is absolutely terrible at its worst. As a result, I have mixed feelings about the series.

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Old 01-24-2017, 07:46 PM   #78
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i think the series fell into the same trap TV's Buffy the Vampire Slayer did.
they tried to make every season finale OH SO EPIC!

there's only so many times you can "kill" Master Splinter or threaten the entire planet before things really becomes old hat.

it is possible to tell stories on a smaller scale and still be entertaining.

i dunno. that's just my take.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:46 PM   #79
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The Nick cartoon has been fantastic. There were a few bad episodes of course, but every show has those so it's understandable.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:54 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
And now we face the biggest fear we had since the buyout. Nick owns the tmnt and they probably won't be letting them go any time soon even if they never intended to use them again like so many nicktoons past. So after this series is done it'll be up to them if they want to do a revival.
A fear I've had for quite a while.

Don't they dare go and buy them only to decide to shelve them indefinitely with no interest in doing anything more or allowing anyone else the right to... At that point the public needs to pester them to no end.


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Interspecies mating is possible.

And Leorai ftw (it's not incest since they're not blood related).
Well that was random.

Only the act of it is possible. Maybe. But if Hamato Yoshi's DNA is a part of the human side of the Turtles, then I beg to differ on the "not related" thing, even if it happened in some roundabout way to a lesser degree than normal relatives. Not that they can breed either way... it just makes it socially/morally weird to be calling the same guy father. And I'm not so sure Leo would be unbothered by that.



That said. I guess this is the first TMNT who DIRECTLY made Leo have a thing for Karai. Elsewhere you just have to read into it if that is what you want to see. I think I liked it that way better, though in terms of the Turtles having crushes I prefer how Nick went about it with Leo vs how they did with Donnie.

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