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Old 03-17-2017, 09:56 AM   #41
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10% Mirage, 75% Fred Wolf cartoon, 5% 4Kids, 10% Archies!
I would disagree with your little pie chart there.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:16 AM   #42
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I would disagree with your little pie chart there.
Same here. But to reiterate that's kinda the point of this thread. Everybody has their own opinion of how the TMNT should and shouldn't be depicted. Despite how I feel in regards to Andrew's negative opinions on the cartoons and movies, I do agree with him on the matter of how the Ninja Turtles themselves should be treated with more respect.

We both would like to see them show more of Michelangelo's creative side in the mainstream media. I remember in the pilot episode of the 4Kids cartoon right after the Mousers showed up and demolished their original lair, he actually broke into a short poem, which I felt was really sweet and I wish they had made him more like that throughout the series. And don't even get me started on how in the Nickelodeon cartoon he constantly goes "full retard" as Robert Downey Jr. might say.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:01 AM   #43
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I don't begrudge you that, but saying "IDW my my favorite TMNT" is like saying, "I like my TMNT to be 10% Mirage, 75% Fred Wolf cartoon, 5% 4Kids, 10% Archies!"

Which is like saying, "I like my TMNT to be 80%... crap."

You're either joking or a moron. I can't decide which.
Well, aren't you the pacifist...

Anyway, for those of you interested in constructive criticism, here's a fanart that I really like and would think suits the TMNT as they are depicted in the IDW comic books. Mr Waltz and Curnow, please give it a try.

Spoiler:
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:04 AM   #44
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here's a fanart that I really like and would think suits the TMNT as they are depicted in the IDW comic books. Mr Waltz and Curnow, please give it a try.

Spoiler:
Dude, that's awesome!!!
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:19 AM   #45
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Turtles wearing clothing regularly is retarded. I can only accept it when they go above ground and are disguising themselves among humans.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:22 AM   #46
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Turtles wearing clothing regularly is retarded. I can only accept it when they go above ground and are disguising themselves among humans.
Remember that scene in the 4Kids cartoon where they fighting the Purple Dragons while in disguise?
LEONARDO: "I can barely move in these things. What is the deal with humans and clothes?"
RAPHAEL: "Ever seen a human in his skivvies? Trust me, it ain't a pretty sight."

I'm guessing Raph saw that ugly hooker Andrew tried to set me up with, LOL!!!
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:28 PM   #47
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"I like my TMNT to be 10% Mirage, 75% Fred Wolf cartoon, 5% 4Kids, 10% Archies!"
How do you quantify this? For example, if it was "75% Fred Wolf, 10% Archie", wouldn't April be a reporter? If anything there's more of 4kids in the series than there is Archie.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:33 PM   #48
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I don't begrudge you that, but saying "IDW my my favorite TMNT" is like saying, "I like my TMNT to be 10% Mirage, 75% Fred Wolf cartoon, 5% 4Kids, 10% Archies!"

Which is like saying, "I like my TMNT to be 80%... crap."
Quote:
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I would disagree with your little pie chart there.
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For example, if it was "75% Fred Wolf, 10% Archie", wouldn't April be a reporter?
Not necessarily.

All right, let me think on it a little more reason-minded...

Mirage 10%, Fred Wolf 70%, Archie 5%, 4Kids 10%, and 5% entirely original material/characters/Kevin Eastmanisms (parkour ninjas and such).

Yeah. That seems about right. Still 80% crap.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:54 PM   #49
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All right, let me think on it a little more reason-minded...

Mirage 10%, Fred Wolf 70%, Archie 5%, 4Kids 10%, and 5% entirely original material/characters/Kevin Eastmanisms (parkour ninjas and such).

Yeah. That seems about right. Still 80% crap.
Dude, you're like the Jerry Seinfeld of this place... though I guess that makes me George Costanza!!!
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:17 PM   #50
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IDW is my favorite TMNT incarnation. If I controlled TMNT, the entire franchise would be modeled on that comic series. And the IDW series is not 80% crap. The idea the IDW series is 80% crap is an opinion only one or maybe two or three members of the turtles fanbase has, and it's not fact. Also the opinion it's crap is an opinion the rest of the TMNT fanbase does not share.

(end Kraang speak)

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Old 03-17-2017, 03:03 PM   #51
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Andrew HAS to be abrasive. He's the TMNT fan elite... and thinks he's a purish in some narrow minded way....

Those splits of what IDW's TMNT is... is horrible. It's got more Fred Wolf in there than anything, but not by that much man.

I'd say it's more like this... from the IDW Comic perspective.

20% Mirage
40% Fred Wolf
10% Archie
15% 2003 tmnt
15% new vibe/new things
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:18 PM   #52
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I think it's a bit of a stretch to be 40% FW. So far as I can think, Krang, the Technodrome, and (Shredder being mostly responsible for) Bebop and Rocksteady are the biggest aspects I can name, but they really don't cover 40%. Especially while Krang and Shredder aren't working together.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #53
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Andrew HAS to be abrasive. He's the TMNT fan elite... and thinks he's a purish in some narrow minded way....
You should've been around the fandom 16 years ago. I never would've guessed in a million years Mr. Modeen would turn out this way. Then again we all change over time. Some people who leave the fandom move on, yet keep in touch with a select few friends here and there, while others vanish into the ether completely without a trace.

I feel as if in funny a way Andrew and I both share this difficulty with accepting when people do that. I remember there was a time we both resented certain individuals from TMNT-L for writing us and the fandom off completely, and that might've ultimately contributed to his current feelings in regards to specific interpretations of the TMNT.

On the other hand, maybe he just grew out of kiddie cartoons!
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:29 PM   #54
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While it's hard to pin down to a percentage, because of how you can't really put a percentage writing and art style, even less so with revisions. The only concrete thing we have is tracking down series of origin for the characters and that can be kind of weird...

...Bah, screw it, let's pretend this isn't nebulus and try to put an actual percentage on this:

Mirage
  1. Leo
  2. Mikey
  3. Raph
  4. Splinter
  5. Shredder
  6. Karai
  7. April
  8. Casey
  9. Fugitoid
  10. Renet
  11. Savanti
  12. Rat King
  13. Leatherhead
  14. Zog
  15. Baxter Stockman
  16. Tang Shen

Fred Wolf (this might be a bit unclear given the overlap with Archie and the toyline, let's just give most of the "toy" characters to Archie they made better use of them):
  1. Krang
  2. Traag
  3. Granitor
  4. Bebop
  5. Rocksteady
  6. Mutagen Man
  7. Metalhead
  8. Dask
  9. Kala
  10. Zak
  11. Trib
  12. Zenter
  13. Gizzla
  14. Knight
  15. Winter

Archie (again, not sure if I really should put someone like Mondo here given the overlap but I'll do it based on how how the characters were used.)
  1. Mondo Gecko
  2. Ray
  3. Null
  4. Jagwar
  5. Manmoth
  6. Slash (I really don't know where to put him)
  7. Wyrm
  8. Wingnut
  9. Scumbug

4Kids
  1. Hun
  2. Bishop
  3. Ch'rell
  4. Angel
  5. Darius
  6. Jammer(head)

Originals
  1. Hob
  2. Bludgeon
  3. Koya
  4. Sally
  5. Lindsey
  6. Kitsune
  7. Chi-You
  8. Alopex
  9. Herman
  10. Woody
  11. Pepperoni
  12. Zodi
  13. Jennika
  14. Harold
  15. Libby

And that's about as many as I can list and almost feel comfortable with, I don't really feel it's fair to list the individual Neutrinos or cameos like Wingnut, but if we want to challenge the "70% FW" estimate, fine.

This has 16 Mirage characters, 15 FW characters, 9 Archie characters, 6 4Kids characters and 15 Original ones which adds up to 61 characters total . I think you can already figure out the rough results but let's go ahead anyway:

26% Mirage
25% FW
14% Archie
10% 4Kids
25% Original

Not the exact percentage but a rough estimate, a much more even spread than what Andrew initially put forth. Let's alter the FW and Archie groups to increase the percentage of FW characters, add all the overlapping characters to the FW group:

32% FW
6% Archie

The FW characters, while now making up the majority, still isn't 70%. It's not even above 50%.

Now again, this actually up in the air and a lot of these characters are basically just given cameo roles. Like I said before, I don't think you can really put a number on influence and my sample size isn't all the characters but if we have to try, at least this isn't quite as arbitrary as just proclaiming 70%.


Edit: Dear God this is long now that I look at it.

TL;DR, A rough quarter of the characters are Mirage Originals, two fifths are certainly not FW characters and only about a third CAN be thought of as FW characters. The actual amount of influence can't really be pinned down though, that's not how art works.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:40 PM   #55
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Yeah, neatoman is right. Also if you count the Neutrinos all as one unit rather than 6 separate characters, then the percentage goes down even more. You can probably do the same for Traag/Granitor since they're indistinguishable as characters.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:01 PM   #56
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Yeah, neatoman is right. Also if you count the Neutrinos all as one unit rather than 6 separate characters, then the percentage goes down even more. You can probably do the same for Traag/Granitor since they're indistinguishable as characters.
I think of it as Tragg and generic rock soldiers. Granitor got attention between 1987-1989,but is just another rock solider. In this case I will grant you are correct.

Also,how would the individual utroms be counted from Krang's father to Ch'rell's sister and the others?

Also Detective Sara Lewis and Officer Lin. Time will tell if Officer Lin is a one-shot character due to Lewis not being in the line of work that would have allowed her to invesitgate the sewers.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:32 PM   #57
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Holy crap, I just noticed I missed Donatello of all characters!

Oh well, adding one more character would only cause a slight shift in percentage. It's not meant to be a complete list or even an accurate measurement, it's just meant to show that you can't really say it's mostly Fred Wolf inspired, I even tipped groupings in favor of the Fred Wolf cartoon and I still only came up with 25-32%

Like you guys said, if I were to group in characters that aren't really individuals and scratch cameos, the results would look more like this:
Mirage, 30%
FW, 20%
Archie, 13%
4Kids, 10%
Original, 27%
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:26 PM   #58
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While it's hard to pin down to a percentage, because of how you can't really put a percentage writing and art style, even less so with revisions. The only concrete thing we have is tracking down series of origin for the characters and that can be kind of weird...

...Bah, screw it, let's pretend this isn't nebulus and try to put an actual percentage on this:

Mirage
  1. Leo
  2. Mikey
  3. Raph
  4. Splinter
  5. Shredder
  6. Karai
  7. April
  8. Casey
  9. Fugitoid
  10. Renet
  11. Savanti
  12. Rat King
  13. Leatherhead
  14. Zog
  15. Baxter Stockman
  16. Tang Shen

Fred Wolf (this might be a bit unclear given the overlap with Archie and the toyline, let's just give most of the "toy" characters to Archie they made better use of them):
  1. Krang
  2. Traag
  3. Granitor
  4. Bebop
  5. Rocksteady
  6. Mutagen Man
  7. Metalhead
  8. Dask
  9. Kala
  10. Zak
  11. Trib
  12. Zenter
  13. Gizzla
  14. Knight
  15. Winter

Archie (again, not sure if I really should put someone like Mondo here given the overlap but I'll do it based on how how the characters were used.)
  1. Mondo Gecko
  2. Ray
  3. Null
  4. Jagwar
  5. Manmoth
  6. Slash (I really don't know where to put him)
  7. Wyrm
  8. Wingnut
  9. Scumbug

4Kids
  1. Hun
  2. Bishop
  3. Ch'rell
  4. Angel
  5. Darius
  6. Jammer(head)

Originals
  1. Hob
  2. Bludgeon
  3. Koya
  4. Sally
  5. Lindsey
  6. Kitsune
  7. Chi-You
  8. Alopex
  9. Herman
  10. Woody
  11. Pepperoni
  12. Zodi
  13. Jennika
  14. Harold
  15. Libby

And that's about as many as I can list and almost feel comfortable with, I don't really feel it's fair to list the individual Neutrinos or cameos like Wingnut, but if we want to challenge the "70% FW" estimate, fine.

This has 16 Mirage characters, 15 FW characters, 9 Archie characters, 6 4Kids characters and 15 Original ones which adds up to 61 characters total . I think you can already figure out the rough results but let's go ahead anyway:

26% Mirage
25% FW
14% Archie
10% 4Kids
25% Original

Not the exact percentage but a rough estimate, a much more even spread than what Andrew initially put forth. Let's alter the FW and Archie groups to increase the percentage of FW characters, add all the overlapping characters to the FW group:

32% FW
6% Archie

The FW characters, while now making up the majority, still isn't 70%. It's not even above 50%.

Now again, this actually up in the air and a lot of these characters are basically just given cameo roles. Like I said before, I don't think you can really put a number on influence and my sample size isn't all the characters but if we have to try, at least this isn't quite as arbitrary as just proclaiming 70%.


Edit: Dear God this is long now that I look at it.

TL;DR, A rough quarter of the characters are Mirage Originals, two fifths are certainly not FW characters and only about a third CAN be thought of as FW characters. The actual amount of influence can't really be pinned down though, that's not how art works.
That list of characters is pretty meaningless when the ones from Mirage that also appear in Fred Wolf are portrayed as they are in Fred Wolf in IDW.

I mean, is IDW Mikey more like FW Mikey or more like Mirage Mikey? It's not even close. Donnie? Pfft.

And what about things like pizza obsession? I wonder what universe started that...
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Old 03-18-2017, 01:52 AM   #59
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That list of characters is pretty meaningless when the ones from Mirage that also appear in Fred Wolf are portrayed as they are in Fred Wolf in IDW.

I mean, is IDW Mikey more like FW Mikey or more like Mirage Mikey? It's not even close. Donnie? Pfft.

And what about things like pizza obsession? I wonder what universe started that...
Well yeah, of course the list is meaningless, it was the first and last thing I admitted about it.

Though I wouldn't really agree the characters are more similar to their FW counterparts. The pizza thing is there but it's not really highlighted and it's at no point implied their diet only consists of pizza. Silly things like that aside, when was the last time FW Shredder stabbed someone in the gut to prove a point? Or FW Baxter was confident? Even FW originals like Krang don't come across like their original counterparts.

But fine, let's paint a grossly unfair picture here and assume all the characters are more similar to their cartoon counterparts:

FW
  1. Leo
  2. Mikey
  3. Raph
  4. Don
  5. Splinter
  6. Shredder
  7. April
  8. Casey
  9. Rat King
  10. Leatherhead
  11. Baxter Stockman
  12. Krang
  13. Traag
  14. Granitor
  15. Bebop
  16. Rocksteady
  17. Mutagen Man
  18. Metalhead
  19. Dask
  20. Kala
  21. Zak
  22. Trib
  23. Zenter
  24. Gizzla
  25. Knight
  26. Winter
  27. Mondo Gecko
  28. Ray
  29. Slash
  30. Wingnut
  31. Scumbug

4Kids
  1. Hun
  2. Bishop
  3. Ch'rell
  4. Angel
  5. Darius
  6. Jammer(head)
  7. Karai
  8. Fugitoid
  9. Renet
  10. Savanti
  11. Zog
  12. Tang Shen

Archie
  1. Null
  2. Jagwar
  3. Manmoth
  4. Wyrm

Orignals
  1. Hob
  2. Bludgeon
  3. Koya
  4. Sally
  5. Lindsey
  6. Kitsune
  7. Chi-You
  8. Alopex
  9. Herman
  10. Woody
  11. Pepperoni
  12. Zodi
  13. Jennika
  14. Harold
  15. Libby

Oh gee, look at that: 50% FW, 20% 4Kids, 6% Archie, 24% Original and literally 0% Mirage. Ain't that bitch! If only they could have remember great characters like... Uhm... Radical? And... Uh... Gosei?
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:34 AM   #60
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I'd say he's more similar to Mirage, but not close enough. But he's still very vastly different from FW Mike.

To say that IDW shares the most trends in common with FW is...in a video.

The pizza obsession is virtually absent, save for the very beginning where they were literally depending on it for survival, and it's not even an obsession. Michelangelo doesn't even make pizza from scratch and put unthinkable toppings on it (the kid can't even make toast without burning it to a crisp).
Save for some characters and one storyline, it doesn't really connect all that much. Krang and Shredder hate each others' guts and have repeatedly shown that they'd rather tear each other apart rather than work together. And the Attack on Neutrino - the one storyline that I can think of that is exclusively from FW - only shares a few threads of story. The turtles protect the princess, yes. But she's not a baby with a "silly baby, you have magic; silly baby, you can't go climbing out windows" story. Krang captured her parents, yes, but they didn't escape from him.

Also, the Utroms as were mentioned earlier and a few others make an additional eight original characters.
Mirage
  1. Leo
  2. Mikey
  3. Raph
  4. Splinter
  5. Shredder
  6. Karai
  7. April
  8. Casey
  9. Fugitoid
  10. Renet
  11. Savanti
  12. Rat King
  13. Leatherhead
  14. Zog
  15. Baxter Stockman
  16. Tang Shen

Fred Wolf
  1. Krang
  2. Traag
  3. Granitor
  4. Bebop
  5. Rocksteady
  6. Mutagen Man
  7. Metalhead
  8. Dask
  9. Kala
  10. Zak
  11. Trib
  12. Zenter
  13. Gizzla
  14. Knight
  15. Winter
  1. Mondo Gecko
  2. Ray
  3. Null
  4. Jagwar
  5. Manmoth
  6. Slash (I really don't know where to put him)
  7. Wyrm
  8. Wingnut
  9. Scumbug

4Kids
  1. Hun
  2. Bishop
  3. Ch'rell
  4. Angel
  5. Darius
  6. Jammer(head)

Originals
  1. Hob
  2. Bludgeon
  3. Koya
  4. Sally
  5. Lindsey
  6. Kitsune
  7. Chi-You
  8. Alopex
  9. Herman
  10. Woody
  11. Pepperoni
  12. Zodi
  13. Jennika
  14. Harold
  15. Libby
  16. Quanin
  17. Lorqa
  18. Ma'riell
  19. Kleve
  20. Leeshawn
  21. Montuoro (possibly built up from Mortu? I mean, who names their kid the backwards version of his species name???)
  22. Churk
  23. Yoom

16 Mirage characters, 15 FW characters, 9 Archie characters, 6 4Kids characters and 23 Original ones which adds up to 69 characters total.
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