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Old 09-15-2011, 05:56 PM   #21
CyberCubed
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The reviews are great and informative as usual.

The only thing that irks me about the site is the constant jabs at David Wise or the Fred Wolf cartoon in general. I know its just opinions and all, but sometimes I feel like I'm reading Peter Laird's blog!
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:07 PM   #22
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Well, I have a starkly different opinion of David Wise than a lot of fans, I'll freely admit. I think the guy was a total hack.

A real nice guy who shows genuine enthusiasm for his work. But still a hack.


And if it makes you feel any better, I plan on reviewing the Fred Wolf cartoon soon, so I'll be suffering beyond compare.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:18 PM   #23
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That'll be an interesting change of pace that I can look forward to seeing as I do all new posts.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:18 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DrSpengler View Post

And if it makes you feel any better, I plan on reviewing the Fred Wolf cartoon soon, so I'll be suffering beyond compare.
Oh, man, I can't wait (Just please don't give half the episodes grades of D & F)! And, Mark, is there any chance you might consider joining Jester and I on a fan commentary?
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:22 PM   #25
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I don't think I have any means of recording my voice, I'm afraid.

And I probably won't grade the episodes. I plan on doing them in episode batches, basically broken down by the disks of the Lions Gate releases. They won't be as "in-depth" as my comic reviews, but I'll give them all fiar appraisals. I want to do the 4Kids series and the movies, too, at least at some point.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:22 PM   #26
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Meh, if you don't go into the original cartoon with the right mindset, there's no reason to get into it at all.

I think the reason so many of us still enjoy the old cartoon is because we know what it was intended to be, a fun mindless cartoon show.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:17 PM   #27
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Yes, because everyone should love the Fred Wolf series. If you don't you should burn....BURN!!!

Seriously Cubed, the man is entitled to his opinion, no matter how wrong he is....
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:19 PM   #28
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Some of us have limited interest in fun mindless cartoon shows. (mostly it's the mindless part that rankles.)
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:27 PM   #29
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I was gonna hold my tongue, but... like Jester said, everybody's entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong, so...

The OT was many things, but "mindless" wasn't one of them. In order to truly enjoy the show, you have to be paying attention, i.e. use your brain. Pop-culture and literary references, dry-pan humor, puns, subtle in-jokes, complicated psuedo-scientific explanation for things, etc.... all these things require mental effort to notice and appreciate. It's fair to say stuff like that hurt the show's status as an "action show" or a "real drama," but it isn't mindless.

Explosions are cool, but they are by definition mindless and require no real effort on the viewer's part to comprehend what just happened. But the humor of the OT, no matter how corny, requires one to listen carefully to the dialogue. Try watching episodes without the sound off sometime, it's just about impossible to follow the plot. Indeed, the mind is a must to appreciate its brand of humor.

Anyway... looking forward to Speng's reviews! Whether you end up agreeing with him or not, he just about always expresses himself well.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:30 PM   #30
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To be honest I always thought the OT's strength was simply the way every character played off one another.

The 4 Turtles, Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady, and April/Irma/Vernon/Burne specifically.

They all were such obvious foils of each other and all had comedic banter. And then when all 3 groups interacted with the others and outside their little quartet, it was hilarious.

The fact that the cartoon made fun of itself, with all the 4th wall breaking and basically acknowledging the plots were ridiculous, was basically the best part of it all.

It knew it was a cartoon and completely ran with it.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:16 AM   #31
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I don't hate the series as much as some of you see to be making me out to be (or, at least one of you, anyway). If I did loathe every inch of it, I wouldn't have included several episodes in my "25 Greatest TMNT Moments" article some years ago, right?

When the show was trying, it was genuinely entertaining. I love the first season and most of the second. The Red Sky seasons, now that I've finally been able to watch them on DVD, have been surprising me with how tightly written they are.

But I'd wager about 75% of the show is still pretty awful. I love the characters and the characterizations unique to the universe and I enjoy quite a bit about the show.

However, I do not think it averages out to a good show, when you get down to it.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:05 PM   #32
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I'd wager Seasons 1-3 were great, Seasons 4 and 5 are a bit hit or miss, Season 6 is a really funny season with a bit more action, Season 7 was excellent, and Seasons 8-10 were pretty good for an action cartoon.

It's only the Euro vacation eps and some of the worst eps of Seasons 4 and 5 that dragged the show down.

That's how I view the show, anyway. Season 6 was almost as good as the later seasons.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:21 PM   #33
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Okay, even though were in the Comic Section we're discussing the OT, so I feel I have to throw my 25 cents in the pot: I don't remember laughing much at the OT. I love the hell out of it, which is obvious otherwise I wouldn't be here, but I just remember immensely liking the characters and enjoying the show over finding it funny. It doesn't change the notion that the OT was a comedy with action elements, I think I aid more attention to the action part over the funny part.

Then again, it could have been the Mirage Turtles pulling me in with their seriousness, I dunno.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:43 PM   #34
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I've been rewatching the DVD's recently and it surprises me how much fun I have with the series. I guess the reason some people forget why adults still find it entertaining is they only watch select episodes once every year, but never sit down to give it a regular watch through each DVD.

I can understand why people don't like the show, but to me the show was the perfect blend of being a cartoon to just watch for entertainment. The show smartly toes the line between smart and bizarre.

We'll never get another show like it.
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:52 PM   #35
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Count me as a fan of Spengler and his site.

It embarrasses me to admit that I haven't read all the TMNT manga issues, even though I really like them and am very grateful for the translations.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:02 PM   #36
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It embarrasses me to admit that I haven't read all the TMNT manga issues, even though I really like them and am very grateful for the translations.
As you should be!
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:29 PM   #37
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Well, I have a starkly different opinion of David Wise than a lot of fans, I'll freely admit. I think the guy was a total hack.

A real nice guy who shows genuine enthusiasm for his work. But still a hack.
By at least my definition of the word "hack", I don't quite think it's possible to both of those things at the same time. Not that I think Wise is a master storyteller, but my point stands.
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It was definitely not a kid's book.
That was the thing that always mystified me about the turn the franchise took when Eastman and Laird licensed the cartoon and the parallel comic book published by the same outfit that gave us Archie. The turtles' original origin story? The whole thing hinges on a for-Christ's-sake rape-murder!!!!
from here.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:38 PM   #38
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By at least my definition of the word "hack", I don't quite think it's possible to both of those things at the same time. Not that I think Wise is a master storyteller, but my point stands.
I see your logic, usually a hack isn't enthusiastic. Usually a "hack" will "phone it in." Enthusiasm is not something you think of when you think of hackery.

I dunna, I rather liked Wise. Some of the best Fred Wolf stories were penned by Wise, even if they were cobbled together from plots he used on Transformers and He-man.
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:02 PM   #39
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There's a reason why a lot of people felt the 4kids series weakest point was its humor. With the exception of some things here and there, the 4kids series was rarely funny. They also wound up ruining Michaelangelo as the series progressed.

They needed David Wise. He wrote the best and funniest banter between the Turtles of the franchise.

Man, I hope David Wise can write a few eps for Nick at some point.
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:15 PM   #40
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Not to disparage Wise or the 4Kids cast, but part of the success of the Fred Wolf humor may well have been the rapport that the voice cast had with one another. I really wonder how much of what we see was scripted and how much was ad-libed by the cast.

Also....Nice review of Credo. It is odd to see Ch'rell in a Mirage book. Kinda like Krang in Turtle Soup #1.
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