Should TMNT 1990 be considered a Cult Classic?

[Warhorse]

All I know is when I went to go see this thing on opening night when I was a kid, it was the first time I had to stand in a really long line. They also had to open a few more screens to compensate the heavy crowd. You would think the mania surround it at the time would have leveled up to cult classic status today.

[Zachatello00]

I was going to say "no", until I actually took the time to look at the specific definition of the term "cult classic."

So, "yes."

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by mikey0

The 1990 TMNT movie is the highest-grossing independent film of all time. It deserves something for that alone. It’s not Tim Burton’s Batman from 1989 like another user in this thread point out already,

But it was successful. Perhaps as TMNT is seen as a fad the movie automatically gets less exposure by the media.

Originally Posted by mikey0

None of the movies based off of comic strips or independent comic books that came after the 1990 TMNT in the 90s were as successful as the first ever TMNT film.

Personally I'd take those movies over modern comic book movies any day of the week but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by mikey0

TMNT 1990 made the TMNT become a household name, but it does not have a cult following like Donnie Darko, Mean Girls, or Hocus Pocus.

Does a cult classic apply to big studio movies? I ask because two of the movies you've listed were put out by major studios.

Originally Posted by mikey0

Perhaps, there needs to be a documentary on cult classic films like Mean Girls, Hocus Pocus, The Room, Donnie Darko, Heavy Metal, and The Rocky Horror Picture Show to explain what makes a film a cult classic.

Arrow Video had a recurring segment on their YouTube channel about this. Check out their YouTube channel for the answer to this question. They ask lots of people this question: https://www.youtube.com/user/ArrowVi...rch?query=cult

[cloud]

It's actually not. Because TMNT was never a cult. The comic was indie but was popular and sold out right away. That immediately says it's not a cult.
Cult in pop culture usually means something that didn't do well initially and gain popularity after awhile through mouth to mouth.

TMNT is just too popular to be a cult. It's a classic for sure.

[sgtfbomb]

Cloud is right. "Cult classics" are the kind of film that didn't find an audience at the theater, but later became popular on home video.

However, as a film gets to be as old as this film is, whether or not it was successful seems to become less relevant, and at some point, it seems like a movie that made bank at the box office and was one of the most talked about movies of that year, starts to exist on the fringe. (Tim Burton's Batman is a great example of this.)

Outside of this forum, I can barely find people to talk to about this film. Most people my age have only a vague recollection of it and the conversation ends there.

So I think an argument can be made that as a film gets older and less a part of the public consciousness, it can retroactively become a "cult classic."

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by sgtfbomb

However, as a film gets to be as old as this film is, whether or not it was successful seems to become less relevant, and at some point, it seems like a movie that made bank at the box office and was one of the most talked about movies of that year, starts to exist on the fringe. (Tim Burton's Batman is a great example of this.)

I agree, there's a lot of examples of movies that were successful at the time that have faded into obscurity. The 1990 TMNT movie outside of fandom has done that. The 1989 Batman movie will however always be remembered.

[sgtfbomb]

Originally Posted by pferreira

The 1989 Batman movie will however always be remembered.

I live and die for Batman '89. But to me, it seems to have fallen out of the pop culture lexicon. Apart from the Batman fandom, I rarely see it being discussed in the wild, with most of the discussions leaning to Nolan trilogy and Ben Affleck.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by sgtfbomb

I live and die for Batman '89. But to me, it seems to have fallen out of the pop culture lexicon. Apart from the Batman fandom, I rarely see it being discussed in the wild, with most of the discussions leaning to Nolan trilogy and Ben Affleck.

Well I can tell you with 100% whenever I see retrospective articles on the mainstream media discussed about Batman they do refer in some way to the 1989 movie.

[neatoman]

Literally nothing is safe from fading from the public consciousness. To paraphrase Fight Club: "On a long enough timescale, the popularity of everything drops to zero". Batman has been around for 81 years yet the earliest Batman thing "everyone knows about" is less than 55 years old.

[PizzaPower1985]

If I might chime in a bit late here.... First, as much as I love it and as much as it remains my fav. TMNT thing ever , I DO NOT believe the term cult classic applies. CyberCubed was correct when he called it the "Citizen Kane of Comic Book movies" but, even by cult standards, TMNT 1990 is too niche to be cult or classic. My generation, the old millennials (I was born in 85 hence my username) will know this film well. TMNT fans obviously will know this movie, but as wonderful as the film is for us fans, as faithful as it is, it has largely been forgotten if not ignored by the masses and anyone outside of TMNT/comic book/superhero fandom. Therefore it aint no classic. As far as being cult? Well, how large a cult are we talking? How big is the fandom for this one truly?

[AquaParade]

Debate aside, I’m watching this movie, like, every few months now. I just love it so much, and more every time. Either that or I’m having some sort of breakdown and clinging to the familiar. I’m really just sort of blown away by how much I enjoy it - broken record here.

I miss the more violent edge and revenge aspect from Mirage, but the emotional beats and the ways the puppets and actors portray them make the movie a pure joy to me. I find myself rewinding parts here and there just to appreciate the emoting done by the puppets.

The character work is great too and I’m still noticing new touches to this day. Like how focused in on Splinter’s teachings Leonardo is when they first return home at the start of the film. They don’t have Leonardo explain to the audience aloud that he is especially invested, nor do they use context to hint at it - they simply give us a quick closeup or Leonardo intently focused, as Splinter speaks, and that’s enough. And how about Splinter’s sit-down with Raphael after his encounter with Casey Jones? It’s incredible the illusion that is created with the powerful dialogue, sincere voice acting, and innovative puppetry all coming together.

Raphael has so many great moments and has become my favorite character in the film over the years. Little touches - every time he screams “damn!” In this film, I actually believe him and sort of feel for him. Casey calls him a freak and Josh Pais, the actor, does a great job at selling just how much that hurts him.
After Raphaels verbal argument with Leonardo in April’s apartment, he gets to the roof and curses once again. The guy is constantly at odds with himself and you get the impression that he is still pissed while simultaneously regretting everything he just said. How relatable is that?

And the movie is actually pretty funny when it tries to be. I can’t say that about most versions of TMNT.

[Leo656]

Aside from Raph being my favorite I wholeheartedly agree with all of everything else. I don't watch it as often as you do, probably, but it's one of those movies I could easily watch anytime and I always get a little bit more out of it each time. Like you said, there's a lot to notice upon repeat viewings.

I feel pretty much exactly the same way on almost every single thing you said.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by sgtfbomb

I live and die for Batman '89. But to me, it seems to have fallen out of the pop culture lexicon. Apart from the Batman fandom, I rarely see it being discussed in the wild, with most of the discussions leaning to Nolan trilogy and Ben Affleck.

All of the American superhero flicks (Batman ‘89, TMNT, Dick Tracy, TMNT2 SOTO, The Rocketeer, and Batman Returns) from the Bush 41 era seem to be ignored nowadays. Those films were last relevant when we were living in the years 1989 to 1992.

[AquaParade]

That's awesome. I've also been glad to see a the film recognized for it's timelessness in a lot of online discussions these days. Anecdotal, but it's nice to see the film get some respect. It seems to be a pleasant surprise for a lot of fans who watched it in their childhood and then forgot about TMNT for 20 years. Pay attention, PD.

Yeah, I have a special soft spot for Raphael in this film, but all the characters are at their best here, in my opinion. Michelangelo, who seems especially tricky for writers, is great here - we really need to see his cut scenes. I love the relationships.

[Leo656]

The 1990 film is pretty much my headcanon version of all the characters' personalities. Mikey's a great example. He got to do some great emotional stuff which you rarely ever get to see. They kind of revisited the concept with him in the third one but it's entirely absent from the second as he's firmly back in Clown Mode for that.

But yeah, there are a lot of great character moments in that film which no TMNT movie since has ever come close to matching.

[AquaParade]

So true about Mikey. The great thing is the characters are able to live outside of their typical archetypes and show depth. Leonardo goofs around with the others to jazz music, Donatello is somewhat of a peacekeeper if you pay attention, Mikey is actually charming as opposed to simply braindead (and then there's the cut scenes which give him more of an emotional arc), and of course there is Raph who is a hot mess of emotions.

It's a subtlety I really appreciate, because I can see the temptation and the reasoning for shoving each character into a box, personality-wise, and letting the dynamic between those personalities do the heavy lifting.

[Leo656]

It's the way things should be.

It only makes sense that each of them would have a singular dominant personality trait, but the film version maintains that while also allowing each of them to be a fully three-dimensional character. In most versions they don't have much depth beyond the dominant trait. Which is a shame.

In reality, they'd each have a lot of the same traits, just to different degrees.

[sgtfbomb]

Originally Posted by mikey0

All of the American superhero flicks (Batman ‘89, TMNT, Dick Tracy, TMNT2 SOTO, The Rocketeer, and Batman Returns) from the Bush 41 era seem to be ignored nowadays. Those films were last relevant when we were living in the years 1989 to 1992.

Relevancy to the current era has never really been something that's interested me. There's over a century's worth of films to digest and admire, I'd hate to get caught up just on movies that's come in the last few years.

For me, it's how a movie makes me feel that makes it relevant.

Originally Posted by Leo656

It only makes sense that each of them would have a singular dominant personality trait, but the film version maintains that while also allowing each of them to be a fully three-dimensional character. In most versions they don't have much depth beyond the dominant trait. Which is a shame.

I recently completed a lengthy retrospective on the film and that's something I mention throughout. It's the only Ninja Turtles film that treats them like human beings. For example, Mikey is still the "Party Dude," but he's allowed to be affected by grief. In fact, of all the things removed from the film, the subplot in which he isolates himself from the other characters is the one I wish to be restored the most. It really fleshes out a character who is typically very one-dimensional.

[Leo656]

Also, I hear/see people talk about Burton's two Batman flicks ALL the time. You literally can't click on ANY article about a Batman movie project, either real or hypothetical, without tons of people commenting on how those were the only two good ones and will never be surpassed.

I don't agree with their opinion at all, but those films are still a huge topic of conversation 30 years later. It's constant and ongoing.

Likewise, it's a much quieter and less often repeated conversation, but the same is true whenever a new TMNT movie comes out or is teased. Tons and tons of "The first one was the only good one" comments. I don't think that movie's been forgotten or ignored either. I just think that most people simply aren't generally in the habit of having outspoken conversations about films from 30 years ago, no matter what they are.

I kind of agree about Dick Tracy and The Rocketeer not being spoken of much anymore, but the former never had a single sequel or follow-up in the three decades since, so that obviously mutes the conversation. The same is true for the latter film as well, BUT The Rocketeer also wasn't very well-received even when it was new, so regardless of its quality that film was never destined to have a very long tail, anyway.

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Original Movie Series Mikey is really the only Mikey I can stand much of, anymore. He's really been dealt a crummy hand overall. He was definitely the most fleshed-out in the first movie but even in the second and third films he was never as insufferable as he's been since. I don't remember him being especially terrible in the Archie books, either.

[sgtfbomb]

I guess I should re-phrase. I'm approaching this from a critical perspective. I don't see many articles written/retrospectives about Burton's Batman anymore.

Even with TMNT's 30th anniversary, most of the retrospectives were extremely brief and barely discussed the film at all. One even used an image from SOTO for its header.