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Old 09-15-2017, 12:37 AM   #1
victory_angel
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Plot lines we wish they expanded on

With this incarnation coming to a close, there is still so many stories and plot lines that we wish the writers had expanded on.

Some popular examples are who was April's mother and what happened to her.
Or the fate of Mutagen Man and what becomes of him.
Or even how Mona Lisa is faring with the Mutanimals.
Tiger Claw's backstory with Alopex.
ETC.

One such story I wished they had expanded on was the Retromutagen. I know this is sort of my Donatello Bias talking, but hear me out.

In season two we have Donnie finally create retromutagen. It's a reoccurring plot point within season two up until Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman when it's successfully created.

But then when it's finally created Donnie says he intends to use it to cure April's father and Splinter.

We know Donnie's needed to cure Timothy and Kirby, but the desire to cure Splinter doesn't entirely come from out of nowhere. After all, the turtles had likely seen Splinter mourning his lost humanity more than once over the years he had raised them. So it's only logical that Donnie would have wanted to give his adoptive father a means to regain some of what he had lost. But as they didn't have any samples of the Mutagen to work with, that had to be a dream that would go unfulfilled.

And that desire to cure Splinter could start with a flashback moment. It doesn't even have to be that long ago after all the turtles wouldn't look that much different at 13 then they would at 16. Heck their 14 when they are officially given the title of Ninja. In this flashback Donnie is shown telling Leo that if he ever figures out a way to reverse Mutations, he will cure Splinter first. Then shift to Donnie successfully creating the Retromutagen.

Following that with the exception of a few mutations such as stockman and the entire city of New York, the retromutagen ceases to work and it's never explained why. The only thing we can assume is the mutagen is too refined for the retromutagen for the retromutagen to fix, or Multiple mutations cause the retromutagen to have no effect.


But this whole plot line could have been really expanded on. For example, the Shredder likes to believe he holds all the cards in the farce between him and Splinter. As such if his enemy has something that could be used against him as any sort of advantage, he wants to claim it for himself or destroy it and its source so it isn't of use to any one.

That is why he forces Karai to be his living puppet because, in reality, she is the only card he has to play. That's why he chooses to help the Kraang because he shares a common enemy with them. And his short sightedness prevents him from seeing how much more of a problem the Kraang are when compared to the Turtles.

The issue doesn't need to be brought up in the Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman. But maybe at some point, like later that season or even the third season has one of the characters such as Casey or Mikey points out how disastrous it would be if their enemies got their hands on the retromutagen or learned about it.

After all, Stockman and Rahzar only learned about the retromutagen in its initial episode. Stockman is even seen trying to create retromutagen for himself and hides it when Shredder walks into the lab.

Stockman is more or less a prisoner of the Shredder and was forcibly mutated because he wasn't successfully coming up with effective hench-mutants. So it would be understandable that he wouldn't want to let on to the Shredder he is trying to become human once again.

Rahzar is loyal to the Shredder so why wouldn't he want to report the retromutagen to Shredder. And the reason for it is because he only wants to cure himself only. If he reports it to Shredder, that means that Fishface would also learn about it and want to use it instead. Plus the Shredder isn't likely to let either of them use it, but instead, want he himself would want to use it to restore Splinter to a man so that he doesn't have the advantages he has as a mutant.

Then in season three, Bebop and Rocksteady learn about the Retromutagen. Like Stockman, they are also prisoners of the Shredder. If either of them found a way to return to human and escape they would take it, the other be damned.
And while they aren't the bunglers their Fred Wolf Counter Parts are. But they also aren't the brightest bulbs on Shredder's roster of Hench Mutants. Both of them are foolish enough to mention the Retromutagen's existence while Shredder is in ear shot.

Also there is the Kraang. They want to mutate the Earth into the new Dimension X. In Serpent Hunt there is a moment when Donnie openly says he's nearly done with making his latest batch of Retromutagen, just seconds before they are confronted by the Kraang. There is no way the Kraang would allow anything that can botch their efforts to freely exist.
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Old 09-15-2017, 12:55 AM   #2
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Nothing much for me, although they could have made an arc of April's mother in the final season.

Anything else they either finished, or not something I care about much.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:03 AM   #3
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I don't think there is much that I needed more clarification on, sometimes I have found I was expecting them to go a little deeper into something but I always put it down to it being a kids show with shorter episodes.

I wondered about Splinter when they did have enough mutagen to cure the city but then Splinter is supposed to be a rat. I wondered if he would return to form in the after life, but again he is recognisable to the Turtles as a rat.

I always wondered if the 7 teens all not having a mother (of course we know the turtles wouldn't) was intentional but I figured it was. Casey never showed that he had an issue with it nor do we know why he didn't have one...I'm curious but it's not something I feel I must know before the show ends.

I guess we'll see what is left after the finale
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:12 AM   #4
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TMNT as a whole has a problem with absent mothers...I'd almost say worse than Disney .

April's heritage is an obvious problem, and that really could have been handled in part with breaking the Kraang hive mind and delving into the backstory of the Council and scientist Kraang's betrayal. Especially with Knight going Anakin Skywalker on everyone.

I'm not saying that being an Utrom person (exclusively), but because I think it could have been really, really good material to cover. Especially with the Kraang being the first Utroms that I started to enjoy.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:29 AM   #5
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This isn't exactly what the thread is about, but so I'll just add on what stories they could have 'expanded on'...

*The Slash Story Line. Instead of quickly turning him good? They could have created this 'parallel with Raph' dynamic. Raph is 'Raph' because of his family, while Slash is what Raph would be without the love from his family. But in MY opinion, they dropped the ball on that.

*The Raph 'Mind Control' Story Line. I wish they really would have expanded on that plot and made that into an emotional arc...at least two episodes. I think it would have been fitting if Raph seemed like he was ready to give a killing blow to Leo but then Mikey brought him out of it. Perhaps by replaying/re-doing his hug as a remembrance for Raph to snap him out of it.

*The Don/April thing. Some will feel that is dumb to say. But instead of relying on whatever this 'finale thing is' (aka 'We Loved Mad Max Fury Road, so let's reference that instead of doing an actual finale with the characters'). But if they wanted to bring it up? Actually go through with them having a relationship. You can still do that in a respectable 'family/kids' show. This 'maybe/maybe not for 5 years' was silly and stretched out way too long.

*This isn't an 'expanded on'...but it's too bad that there wasn't a Mikey and Raph episode where those two were the centerpiece and had to work together to 'save the day'.

*I know everyone and their buddy will groan on this...but I wish Raphael had been way, way better used. I even gave recent episodes a chance. But whether he was turned int a plant, or turned into a vampire way early on in an arc and was deemed useless/a hassle to deal with, not doing anything with the fact that it was him and April with Splinter when Splinter was killed (the second time...you think maybe they could have done something with Raph witnessing that firsthand and right in front of him), getting mind-controlled, and so forth...as well as most of his story lines were just him needing to 'fix his own mistakes' (dealing with Spider Bytez in a situation he created, dealing with Slash in a situation he created, Raph accidentally damaging a Kraang machine and thus having him switch brains with a Kraang...

I know 99% will disagree but for me personally? Part of me distancing away from the series was this stuff. At least Leo was able to kill the Shredder, Donnie making the retro-mutagen, and Mikey either getting electrical powers/stopping the Parasitica/being the King of Dimension X and an expert in it. Pretty much all I could give you is 'Raph helping Leo a little bit when he was healing'. But that's it.

And no one needs to get nasty or mean if they read this. This is just me giving my own personal/thoughts on what I wish they would have expanded/done differently with the show.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:41 AM   #6
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This isn't exactly what the thread is about, but so I'll just add on what stories they could have 'expanded on'...

*The Slash Story Line. Instead of quickly turning him good? They could have created this 'parallel with Raph' dynamic. Raph is 'Raph' because of his family, while Slash is what Raph would be without the love from his family. But in MY opinion, they dropped the ball on that.

*The Raph 'Mind Control' Story Line. I wish they really would have expanded on that plot and made that into an emotional arc...at least two episodes. I think it would have been fitting if Raph seemed like he was ready to give a killing blow to Leo but then Mikey brought him out of it. Perhaps by replaying/re-doing his hug as a remembrance for Raph to snap him out of it.

*The Don/April thing. Some will feel that is dumb to say. But instead of relying on whatever this 'finale thing is' (aka 'We Loved Mad Max Fury Road, so let's reference that instead of doing an actual finale with the characters'). But if they wanted to bring it up? Actually go through with them having a relationship. You can still do that in a respectable 'family/kids' show. This 'maybe/maybe not for 5 years' was silly and stretched out way too long.

*This isn't an 'expanded on'...but it's too bad that there wasn't a Mikey and Raph episode where those two were the centerpiece and had to work together to 'save the day'.

*I know everyone and their buddy will groan on this...but I wish Raphael had been way, way better used. I even gave recent episodes a chance. But whether he was turned int a plant, or turned into a vampire way early on in an arc and was deemed useless/a hassle to deal with, not doing anything with the fact that it was him and April with Splinter when Splinter was killed (the second time...you think maybe they could have done something with Raph witnessing that firsthand and right in front of him), getting mind-controlled, and so forth...as well as most of his story lines were just him needing to 'fix his own mistakes' (dealing with Spider Bytez in a situation he created, dealing with Slash in a situation he created, Raph accidentally damaging a Kraang machine and thus having him switch brains with a Kraang...

I know 99% will disagree but for me personally? Part of me distancing away from the series was this stuff. At least Leo was able to kill the Shredder, Donnie making the retro-mutagen, and Mikey either getting electrical powers/stopping the Parasitica/being the King of Dimension X and an expert in it. Pretty much all I could give you is 'Raph helping Leo a little bit when he was healing'. But that's it.

And no one needs to get nasty or mean if they read this. This is just me giving my own personal/thoughts on what I wish they would have expanded/done differently with the show.
Amen to all of this. My thoughts exactly. He was very badly handled and horribly underused. Really good way to alienate a lot of Raph fans. Totally unacceptable and very disappointing but yeah, express your dissatisfaction with the way your favorite turtle is handled and for some reason you're suddenly seen as a villain on the forums.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:03 AM   #7
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I honestly feel since season 1 or even late season 2, the majority of the show has been scattered with plot developments. Although some issues have been addressed, such as dealing with Karai's mind control, Super Shredder, and a few others, some really felt prolonged. Others just didn't have the oomph; whether it comes to writing or maybe budget reasons, some things I hoped for didn't get used. I'll leave what I think in spoilers to not take up much room. Here we go:

Spoiler:
1. Northampton- After dealing with The Invasion (arguably one of the best episodes of the series), this is what we deal with? Primarily horror tributes in a changed environment?

While I prefer horror over sci-fi (I'll get to that soon), the change of location made season 3 really slow paced until Battle for New York, where the Kraang issue was squared away. What could've been a great opportunity to build character and emotion just turned into a monster of the week I expect out of an old superhero cartoon.

Something that should've been done is bring the episode length down to 7 or 6. Keep Buried Secrets and In Dreams, I felt those were the best of the seven horror episodes. Use about three episodes to build on issues the character face (I would say Foot Too Big could apply if you wanted). Then, maybe an origin for the Mutanimals instead of just an Amazing Adventures comic (I still think it's non-canon) and finally a two-parter on Vision Quest. Move Bebop and Rocksteady to midway in the season though, focus on the Kraang first to get them out of the way, preferably permanently.

2. Mutagen Man- As constantly mentioned, the bit of evidence we've heard is "He'll play a role in the second season" and then he only got one episode, Mutagen Man Unleashed. More than likely it's due to Roger Craig Smith, his VA, who does various cartoon roles such as Sonic (both Sonic Boom and the games), Captain America, and more.

Mutagen Man did offer a different dynamic, even if Timothy was among the weaker of the new characters introduced in this series. However, I almost feel that had the season 1 team stayed, he would've been an active force. I always thought he'd be the reason for the creation of retromutagen, possibly even being a sacrifice if he wasn't going to stay.

I'm not sure if Mutagen Man was extremely popular with his toy in the FW days (can someone verify?), but he held almost no purpose. He could've helped Donatello grow, but otherwise, he was fodder to the bigger picture of season 2.

3. Slash and Newtrailizer- I put these two together because both suffered a similar issue. Both of them started off as badasses, but then after Newtrailized!, they changed. I'm not sure if writing or because of contracts, but it felt questionable.

To begin, Slash. His debut in Slash and Destroy was awesome, probably one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. Following it, Slash's turn to the good side was a bit forced. Obviously, there's the example of "The mutagen warped my brain," but the change was out of nowhere. What could've been an intense rivalry between pet and owner/family and it turned into a simple goodbye and then changing his allegiance? I wish it were more gradual.

As for Newtrailizer, his expansion stems from appearing minimally. It keeps him from being overexposed as the Kraang and instead like Rat King, where things would go down when he shows up. The problem I have is there was a golden ticket during the space arc to bring him back. It could've been a fun dynamic to serve as an anti-hero for a bit and later betray the Turtles and his people. I've yet to watch When Worlds Collide, but I did read he teamed with Dregg. I just wish he was used a little more, especially because season 4 was perfect to use him.

4. Mind Control Serum- What was the point of this? Prolonging Karai becoming a full-fledged ally to the Turtles after her mutation. It took up the majority of season 3's second half with some exceptions (Mondo Gecko and the Triceratons mostly). Despite hinting at the Triceratons, I almost felt their appearance dampened the end of season 3; they raised the stakes but didn't fit in with the rest of the season.

For the serum, there are two things that happened: Karai remaining a slave and Raphael, Slash, and Dr. Rockwell being test subjects for an episode. I'll start with the former. Despite the imagery featured in Attack of the Mega Shredder! and The Deadly Venom with forcing the worms into Karai, using this felt convenient and at the same time rough. Convenient because it can keep the stakes up for Shredder and Splinter's feud. Rough because they were so many possibilities following it. Karai could've attacked the lair in a home invasion, she could've kidnapped Splinter (even if done before), there were different scenarios that would've made some suspenseful, even horrifying, episodes. Also, healing hands.

As for "Dark Raph," I really don't have much to add to it. That story ties directly into season 3's biggest faults: its pacing and especially the storytelling being more all over the place. I almost felt like the story could've been two parts or even at the end of the season instead of the Triceratons.

The story I would've done is this: Raph is feeling bad for Splinter and Leo about Karai and decides to team with the Mutanimals (or Mikey and Donnie) to break her free. However, Raph gets captured during the rescue and is subjected to experimentation. Then you can hide him until the end of episode 1, glimpses of his training and shock everybody when we see him gone rogue. Mikey could then break him free as a callback to The Invasion, Karai's story could end strongly, and it could be the end of Shredder for a bit of time. It also lessens the impact of Splinter's second death in Requiem.

I'm not sure how to fully rebook it without changing season 4 drastically, but that's a concept I would like to play with.

5. The crushes/relationships- Most of them are downright putrid and one of my least favorite aspects of the series. Not enough clever or witty writing to make them engaging and not enough chemistry for me to buy into it either. This applies to pretty much every relationship except Leonardo and Karai (until Broken Foot, at least).

Those are my thoughts for now. There's probably more, but these come the most in mind. I skipped one major one: the space arc. That's a story for another time.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:28 AM   #8
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I honestly feel since season 1 or even late season 2, the majority of the show has been scattered with plot developments.
And that's exactly what's being the undertaker of this show (love your profile picture, kudos from a WWE fan, YOU JUST MADE THE LIST). But, on the other side, I'm barely glad they left some problems unsolved because them trying to finish the storyline could create even more questions than before. Baxter's retro-mutation, for example. What was the point of doing that if he possibly died in that fire? And if he didn't, where is he now? And there's much more examples like that. Honestly, fans should finish these storylines all by themselves (normal fans, might I add).

I extremely love this show, but seriously, this is killing me. That's exactly what's being discussed as show's fails because nobody is interested in investigating show's pluses, nobody simply cares about them, for most people it's much more entertaining to roast everything on their path.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:33 AM   #9
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Baxter's retro-mutation, for example. What was the point of doing that if he possibly died in that fire? And if he didn't, where is he now? And there's much more examples like that. Honestly, fans should finish these storylines all by themselves (normal fans, might I add)..
What? Baxter being de-mutated was the end of his character arc. What else did you want them to do? Give us every little detail of what Baxter did with his life afterward?

I find it bizarre you'd bring that up of all things, his character was wrapped up.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:40 AM   #10
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What? Baxter being de-mutated was the end of his character arc. What else did you want them to do? Give us every little detail of what Baxter did with his life afterward?

I find it bizarre you'd bring that up of all things, his character was wrapped up.
They left him laying on the floor in a burning building. Of course, I'm interested what happened to him next. Could've at least mentioned him, but no (I doubt he'll be brought up in the finale). Now I don't even know what to think. If there's no further info, I'm just going to assume that he died and retro-mutation wasn't needed because I bet he would still be knocked out as a fly.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:43 AM   #11
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Mike knocked him out and he most likely got up and left the burning building not to long after. They obviously didn't intend for him to die. That's not a plot line, you're just making a big deal out of something that was meant to end his role in the show.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:31 PM   #12
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Lone wolf and cubs also could have been more of a stand alone episode. Have the Turtles, April, Casey, and Karai enter Splinters room and finally deciding to clean it out. They come across a journal that Splinter wrote about them growing up and that gives them some better understanding of the man who had been Splinter.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:39 PM   #13
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I agree with a lot of what has been said and I agree that Raph could have been used more or storylines could have been used more for him. Leo had some good stuff, but I do feel they could have expanded more on his healing because they barely covered it. I think showing him having nightmares about getting attacked would have been a good touch and I think that his dream in In Dreams should have involved Shredder too as it would have made things more dramatic.

I also would have loved to see something with Kirby and more about him as there seemed to be something off about him. Sadly, we won't know if that was really Kirby or if that was a clone of him or something. Wasted potential if you ask me as well as the whole thing with April's mom and April's origins.

I thought the Karai stuff was beautifully done myself, but did feel there could have been a bit more there.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:05 PM   #14
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Maybe the finale will deal with that since the future only consists of mutants.

My final wish for the show is to have the Kraang as the big bads of the finale, nothing else.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:41 AM   #15
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pretty much any of the mutants that were introduced in the motw episodes.

I mean I would love more Squirrlanoirds and I would like the dream beavers to return
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Old 09-28-2017, 12:37 PM   #16
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pretty much any of the mutants that were introduced in the motw episodes.

I mean I would love more Squirrlanoirds and I would like the dream beavers to return
That's what the Nick comics IDW published did. They brought back a lot of the one-off mutants the cartoon only have 1-2 episodes too and gave them more stories.

Baxter and Spiderbitez team up to rob a bank, the Squirrelnoids got another story, Napoleon and the Punk Frogs visited New York, we got another Muckman story, Snakeweed appeared in about 3 more issues, and I'm pretty sure Sir Malachi appeared again.

The Nick comics may have been "filler" but they did give more stories to the random mutants of the show.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:35 PM   #17
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Shame they were sh!t
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:39 PM   #18
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Shame they were sh!t
The stories themselves weren't bad, it was just filler. I mean the average plot in those stories aren't much different than the show.
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:57 PM   #19
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That's what the Nick comics IDW published did. They brought back a lot of the one-off mutants the cartoon only have 1-2 episodes too and gave them more stories.

Baxter and Spiderbitez team up to rob a bank, the Squirrelnoids got another story, Napoleon and the Punk Frogs visited New York, we got another Muckman story, Snakeweed appeared in about 3 more issues, and I'm pretty sure Sir Malachi appeared again.

The Nick comics may have been "filler" but they did give more stories to the random mutants of the show.
But a lot of the one-off mutants were celebrity voices that Nick couldn't afford to have large contracts with. Steve Blum for example is an anime voice actor and likely is part of a different union if at all.

There were some exceptions such as with David Tenant (though his lines were recorded off-site. They didn't fly him from the UK to America).

Even if they weren't celebrities these characters and their voices still have to be factored into an episodes budget.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:57 PM   #20
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Some plotlines I wished they had used was psychological issues with the Turtles in regards to their adventures.

I mean they sort of do that with Leonardo with his PTSD, where his leg would seem to heal. But then he would get reminded about how he got injured and see himself as too weak to lead the team so his injuries would hurt him again as a result.

And of course, Raph being scared of bugs and how he reacts to them in Insecta Trifecta. And how he emotionally just shuts down after Mona Lisa betrays them.

But Mikey spent months in Dimension X without his brothers, even though his brothers were just fifteen seconds behind him, the time spent there was still a long time in which he had to learn how to understand and survive that world. Or nearly being eaten alive by Mega-Shredder. Or heck, Mikey is one of the more volatile ones since his brothers don't listen to him or take him seriously because he's the youngest and he has a wild imagination.


Donnie also has some moments no one sane can just walk away unscathed. The whole possession thing...maybe he has no memory of that since the guy who was possessed before appeared to have blacked out between when he was possessed and removed from the car. But you can also make the whole arg+t of he doesn't remember because he doesn't want to. But then there is Donnie's death at the hands of April. Something like that is not something a sane person can walk away from and not seriously be affected by it in some fashion.


That would have been a good situation for Leo and Donnie to bond. Because Leo would be distressed that one of his brothers wasn't just murdered...his brother was executed, and there was nothing he could do to prevent it from happening. All he could do was stand by and watch. And because of that he feels he failed one of his brothers when they needed him most.

This could be do in part to Splinter's death. Leo could become militantly over protective of his brothers in regards to their fathers death and even bring up moments where they have died or nearly died as justfication. But in reality hes afraid of losing the rest of his brothers the same way they lost Splinter. After all the other turtles do have moments where they comment that being the head of the family is hard on Leo, but nothing really comes of it.

But this would be a perfect set up for Donnie and Raph to have a bonding episode. After all Raph has that mantra that Splinter taught him that translates to "This means nothing". Splinter then tells Raph not to tell his brothers because he wanted to use the same lesson on them in time. But of course, Splinter dies not long after this lesson.

So say Donnie is having some acute anxiety disorder if not full on PTSD about his own death experiences that are triggered by Splinter's death. Raph starts to grasp what's going on and then teaches that mantra to Donnie to help him brake his focus on the distress.
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