Democrats gear up to investigate Trump - Page 4

*Andrew NDB* · 01-18-2019, 10:40 AM

More "bombshell" and "smoking gun":

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...sia/index.html

*Vegita-San* · 01-18-2019, 11:00 AM

you honestly don't know WHAT to believe anymore. you see tweets ranging from the outrageous, to stuff like this..

>https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1086270133503324161>

that sounds more like it could be the beginning of the end.

I mean...if you got rid of every politician who told a lie, Washington would be empty.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-18-2019, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

I mean...if you got rid of every politician who told a lie, Washington would be empty.

Be a damn good start to fixing $hit, no?

*Vegita-San* · 01-18-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Be a damn good start to fixing $hit, no?

yep. not saying it's a bad idea....but it would take an awful long time to replace and train new honest people

~~BartAllen~~ · 01-22-2019, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

More "bombshell" and "smoking gun":

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...sia/index.html

Mueller said the buzzfeed article is fake.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...eed/index.html

American media is broken.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-22-2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

yep. not saying it's a bad idea....but it would take an awful long time to replace and train new honest people

I'm willing to be an only somewhat morally-bankrupt little duke or regent or bishop of my region.

Gimme a crown and a throne, I'll rule some $hit.

*IndigoErth* · 01-22-2019, 01:45 PM

Please note that "fake" and "not accurate," as articles about it quote, are not the same and can be very different.

Maybe it's fake. Or maybe it isn't and the details are just not entirely spot on and he is trying to reign in something, or a portion of something, he doesn't really want in the news yet. Could really go either way.

*Andrew NDB* · 01-22-2019, 04:27 PM

Looks like Mueller is redirecting his investigation into potential Russian collusion

away from Russia and... to the NRA.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/22/polit...nra/index.html

Dumb. Why wouldn't the NRA support Trump? They throw in behind all Republican presidents. They're in the business of protecting gun rights, aren't they?

*IndigoErth* · 01-22-2019, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Maria Butina, a Russian national, pleaded guilty in DC federal court in December to engaging in a conspiracy against the US. As part of her plea, she acknowledged that she attempted to infiltrate GOP political circles and influence US relations with Russia, in part by building ties with prominent members of the NRA.

Torshin had hoped to use the NRA meeting to initiate back-channel lines of communication between then-candidate Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. While he failed to land a meeting with Trump, he and his associate, Butina, encountered Trump Jr. at a dinner with NRA officials.

Well, I can see why Mueller may be interested. After all, it's an investigation... leave no stone unturned. Even if some want to wave something off as nothing -- whether it actually seems like it or they just want it to be nothing -- ya still gotta check to see if there are any worms under that rock first, else you aren't doing your job.

Even if this Torshin guy never succeeded, it's still sketchy what his motives were. Nor is he necessarily alone in trying.

*Voltron* · 01-22-2019, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Well, I can see why Mueller may be interested. After all, it's an investigation... leave no stone unturned. Even if some want to wave something off as nothing -- whether it actually seems like it or they just want it to be nothing -- ya still gotta check to see if there are any worms under that rock first, else you aren't doing your job.

Even if this Torshin guy never succeeded, it's still sketchy what his motives were. Nor is he necessarily alone in trying.

Yeah, but just because she's going to plead guilty to infiltrating the NRA doesn't mean the NRA should be investigated.

That's like if someone pleads guilty to lying to Congress and says they broke the law at the behest of their boss. It doesn't mean their boss should be investigated.

Also, I'm being sarcastic.

*Leo656* · 01-22-2019, 09:12 PM

Well, where would we be as a species without plausible deniability?

"Do the thing, but I don't wanna know the details." Nothing new. Be pretty weird if we suddenly started being upset about that kinda thing NOW, wouldn't it? Or if we actually tried getting along without it? Society would collapse.

We had thousands of years NOT to allow for a system that only rewards people who lie, cheat and steal, but we kinda dropped the ball. Seems a little late to be outraged at people behaving exactly the way they're expected to.

*IndigoErth* · 01-22-2019, 10:22 PM

Or... humans are continually trying to improve as a species (with plenty of growing pains in between) and slowly but surely realizing over time (despite some trying to keep a death grip on the past) that certain things are pretty crappy to be doing or allowing?

After all, even if we had "thousands of years" not to reward it, we're now finally starting to realize that we shouldn't. And a whole lot of other things that were really incredibly stupid for a long time.

It may be things that work for a minority of people, but it's not working for the rest of the people, and the rest are seemingly starting to realize that what works for that small amount eventually isn't really sustaining for the rest if its being done to their disadvantage.

*Leo656* · 01-22-2019, 11:39 PM

Fair enough.

Broad point, non-political example: I don't want my shoes to cost $500. I don't want to pay $30 for a hamburger. We rely on things we have, as a way of merely existing, because of literal slave labor. It happens "way over there," so collectively, we're all "okay" with it, because that allows us to have things we want for whatever WE feel is "fair", regardless of what they're actually worth.

We're NOT okay with it, of course, it's terrible. But that's how society survives. By looking the other way while saying, "Gosh, that ain't right." We're all equally complicit.

Plausible deniability.

*Voltron* · 01-23-2019, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Fair enough.

Broad point, non-political example: I don't want my shoes to cost $500. I don't want to pay $30 for a hamburger. We rely on things we have, as a way of merely existing, because of literal slave labor. It happens "way over there," so collectively, we're all "okay" with it, because that allows us to have things we want for whatever WE feel is "fair", regardless of what they're actually worth.

We're NOT okay with it, of course, it's terrible. But that's how society survives. By looking the other way while saying, "Gosh, that ain't right." We're all equally complicit.

Plausible deniability.

That's a false equivalence.

Just because it happens and we can't stop it doesn't mean we can't try to stop other things that are bad.

*IndigoErth* · 01-25-2019, 12:32 PM

Unrelated, but can I just say that it has just oddly dawned on me how surreal is it that we live in an age where not only do we have a president that is a Twitter addict, but that I replied to him via a mildly Leo themed account... (Mildly being the use of image and @name is TMNT related, but the displayed name is not. Not my original primary account, but I rarely use Twitter and it's the one I'd left logged in a long time and never had much need to switch it.)

The president of the United States was basically just told by a Ninja Turtle that maybe he should care less the media's coverage of stock market earnings and more about the workers who aren't getting their paychecks.

That's either kinda awesome or really kinda dorky. There is no help for me.

*Andrew NDB* · 01-25-2019, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I'm really, really angry at Donald Trump!

Yeah, uh-huh.

*IndigoErth* · 01-25-2019, 07:23 PM

Taunt all you like sir, it isn't too happy of a day for those that support him... or did. Ah well.

*Leo656* · 01-25-2019, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron

That's a false equivalence.

Just because it happens and we can't stop it doesn't mean we can't try to stop other things that are bad.

Well, I'm not sure if it's actually a "false equivalence", because I never said they were sins of equal measure.

Just making a very broad point that we only get to enjoy the lifestyle we have, because we've all decided that "ignoring that we're only 'happy' because other people suffer so we can reap the reward" is an acceptable state of being.

Sure, we can step in and try to stop bad things that we can control, but the simple fact is, we really COULD enact "real change" on a grander scale if we WANTED to, but... we don't. Because while it would be great for "everyone", it would really hurt us, specifically. Nascar fans don't want to be told how sh*tty and pointless their sport is while gas prices inflate; people who play golf don't wanna hear about how several states' worth of land that could support low-income housing, or SOME form of shelter for our many homeless or struggling people, is essentially being "wasted" so rich white assholes can chase a tiny ball across many acres of open field.

It's not that they don't care about those problems, or the less fortunate. They do care. But only to the effect that "making things better" should have NO impact at all on the lifestyle they choose to live.

We all want the world to be a better place... I think. BUT, we're all equally guilty of the same thing: If "solutions" are a personal inconvenience to us, then suddenly they're not our problems anymore. We want those cheap sneakers, those fast food burgers, those fancy iPads, and if it means some 5-year old Chinese kid loses a thumb in the never-ending effort to keep those things "reasonably" priced for First-Worlders like us, well... that's about the limit of our empathy.

That's what I mean by "plausible deniability". It's ultimately the only reason any of us can think of ourselves as "good people"; we pretend we're ignorant of how we benefit from other peoples' suffering and mistreatment, and it comes with the bonus of allowing us to throw shade at people we don't like because they're REALLY bad people, on account of, like, saying mean things or whatever, or using their status to break the law when we ourselves benefit from those kinds of loopholes every day, we just don't generally go around boasting about it. But since "WE personally didn't do the Bad Thing", we're clean. No, not really, we just get to say we didn't SEE it happen, and would stop it if we could have, maybe. Plausible deniability isn't just a tool of the rich or the powerful; it's entirely how we, as a species, sleep at night.

I don't take great personal offense at the words and deeds of people like Trump, or anyone in a position of power, because when you step back and look at the Big Picture... there's no such thing as "good people", just people who virtue signal and those who admit that the game is rigged and are just trying to get by, niceties be damned. Nobody on this Earth is frankly in any position to play "Righteous Moral Crusader". Gandhi, maybe, but that's it.

*Andrew NDB* · 02-01-2019, 02:05 PM

So Trump is pulling us out of a nuclear arms treaty with Russia that's been in place since the Cold War, as a result of Russia not honoring it.

https://www.apnews.com/13bee012befd4f989ab9ae108d1ca729

I'm not hearing much from the left on this but I'm curious what the narrative on all of this will be. If Trump is supposed to be working for Russia, how does this compute? If they say "Trump is being stupid again!" (and you know they want to) then they have to admit the Russian collusion thing has always been FAKE.

I wonder if it will be something ridiculous like, "Trump made a DEAL with Putin to pull out of the arms treaty so that it LOOKS like he is tough on Russia, so that Mueller will leave him alone!"

*IndigoErth* · 02-01-2019, 03:30 PM

I'm sure you'll disagree 110%, but I wouldn't put it past him and would not surprise me one bit to be yet another redirection stunt which is far too much of his go-to when news of investigations are getting a bit heated... He doesn't get tough with Putin face to face, instead he just decides on something as simple as pulling out of an old treaty that would simply allow for talks with allies over it and not necessarily something that would actually go anywhere. It's a safe move to try to distance himself if that were in fact the case...

01-18-2019, 10:40 AM	#61
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,274	More "bombshell" and "smoking gun": https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/polit...sia/index.html __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

01-18-2019, 11:00 AM	#62
Vegita-San Emperor Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,915	you honestly don't know WHAT to believe anymore. you see tweets ranging from the outrageous, to stuff like this.. >https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1086270133503324161> that sounds more like it could be the beginning of the end. I mean...if you got rid of every politician who told a lie, Washington would be empty. __________________ 'Wrong, April. We've Been upgraded to Women hating TROLLS' ?The force is not female, the force is not male, the force is for everyone?

01-22-2019, 04:27 PM	#68
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,274	Looks like Mueller is redirecting his investigation into potential Russian collusion away from Russia and... to the NRA. https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/22/polit...nra/index.html Dumb. Why wouldn't the NRA support Trump? They throw in behind all Republican presidents. They're in the business of protecting gun rights, aren't they? __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

01-22-2019, 09:12 PM	#71
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	Well, where would we be as a species without plausible deniability? "Do the thing, but I don't wanna know the details." Nothing new. Be pretty weird if we suddenly started being upset about that kinda thing NOW, wouldn't it? Or if we actually tried getting along without it? Society would collapse. We had thousands of years NOT to allow for a system that only rewards people who lie, cheat and steal, but we kinda dropped the ball. Seems a little late to be outraged at people behaving exactly the way they're expected to. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

01-22-2019, 10:22 PM	#72
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Or... humans are continually trying to improve as a species (with plenty of growing pains in between) and slowly but surely realizing over time (despite some trying to keep a death grip on the past) that certain things are pretty crappy to be doing or allowing? After all, even if we had "thousands of years" not to reward it, we're now finally starting to realize that we shouldn't. And a whole lot of other things that were really incredibly stupid for a long time. It may be things that work for a minority of people, but it's not working for the rest of the people, and the rest are seemingly starting to realize that what works for that small amount eventually isn't really sustaining for the rest if its being done to their disadvantage. Last edited by IndigoErth; 01-22-2019 at 10:34 PM.

01-22-2019, 01:45 PM	#67
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Please note that "fake" and "not accurate," as articles about it quote, are not the same and can be very different. Maybe it's fake. Or maybe it isn't and the details are just not entirely spot on and he is trying to reign in something, or a portion of something, he doesn't really want in the news yet. Could really go either way.

01-22-2019, 11:39 PM	#73
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	Fair enough. Broad point, non-political example: I don't want my shoes to cost $500. I don't want to pay $30 for a hamburger. We rely on things we have, as a way of merely existing, because of literal slave labor. It happens "way over there," so collectively, we're all "okay" with it, because that allows us to have things we want for whatever WE feel is "fair", regardless of what they're actually worth. We're NOT okay with it, of course, it's terrible. But that's how society survives. By looking the other way while saying, "Gosh, that ain't right." We're all equally complicit. Plausible deniability. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

01-25-2019, 12:32 PM	#75
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Unrelated, but can I just say that it has just oddly dawned on me how surreal is it that we live in an age where not only do we have a president that is a Twitter addict, but that I replied to him via a mildly Leo themed account... (Mildly being the use of image and @name is TMNT related, but the displayed name is not. Not my original primary account, but I rarely use Twitter and it's the one I'd left logged in a long time and never had much need to switch it.) The president of the United States was basically just told by a Ninja Turtle that maybe he should care less the media's coverage of stock market earnings and more about the workers who aren't getting their paychecks. That's either kinda awesome or really kinda dorky. There is no help for me.

01-25-2019, 07:23 PM	#77
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Taunt all you like sir, it isn't too happy of a day for those that support him... or did. Ah well.

02-01-2019, 02:05 PM	#79
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,274	So Trump is pulling us out of a nuclear arms treaty with Russia that's been in place since the Cold War, as a result of Russia not honoring it. https://www.apnews.com/13bee012befd4f989ab9ae108d1ca729 I'm not hearing much from the left on this but I'm curious what the narrative on all of this will be. If Trump is supposed to be working for Russia, how does this compute? If they say "Trump is being stupid again!" (and you know they want to) then they have to admit the Russian collusion thing has always been FAKE. I wonder if it will be something ridiculous like, "Trump made a DEAL with Putin to pull out of the arms treaty so that it LOOKS like he is tough on Russia, so that Mueller will leave him alone!" __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

02-01-2019, 03:30 PM	#80
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	I'm sure you'll disagree 110%, but I wouldn't put it past him and would not surprise me one bit to be yet another redirection stunt which is far too much of his go-to when news of investigations are getting a bit heated... He doesn't get tough with Putin face to face, instead he just decides on something as simple as pulling out of an old treaty that would simply allow for talks with allies over it and not necessarily something that would actually go anywhere. It's a safe move to try to distance himself if that were in fact the case...