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Old 09-08-2020, 06:36 AM   #221
Leo656
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No, MK was bullsh**. If you're making a video game adaptation that can't even keep the same tone as what it's adapting... what are you doing?

I'll grant that the movie was moderately entertaining on its own... but jesus. And the sequel, Annihilation? Probably on my top 10 worst movies of all time list.
Cashing in. "Making hay while the sun shines". The same reason they forced out a cartoon show and toy line aimed at Very Young Children right after the movie came out, despite adamantly insisting "This thing we're making is in no way for Very Young Children. WINK. Ahem." They knew they very likely weren't going to be around forever with this "Mortal Kombat" thing and needed to pull in as much money from as many projects as possible before the bubble burst. They didn't have the luxury in 1994 of being able to look back 25 years later and say "We should've done This or That instead."

No WAY did they expect MK to still be a franchise in 20 years; hell, they probably half-expected the government to get their way and shut them down because at one point that was a VERY real concern. And if it wasn't that then it was gonna be another "fad" that people dropped out of quickly, which they had every right to expect as well. In any case, they very clearly and obviously figured, "This is our One Chance to make a movie so we might as well just get it done as best we can." They had no reasonable expectation that they'd ever get another chance. From their perspective all they had to concern themselves with was, "If it's even a little bit better than the Street Fighter or Double Dragon movies, then We Win." And they succeeded in that. That's the only bar they were concerned with clearing at that time.

And frankly the movie did have the exact same tone as the games did. It just didn't have the gore. The games were violent but even from the beginning were VERY tongue-in-cheek; by that, the movie was far more serious than it maybe still could have gotten away with. In any case, "Tone" and "Aesthetic" are not the same thing. And it wasn't going to have the gore in 1994, that was never going to happen. BUT, they had a very real impetus to still get a movie on the market and collect as much money as they could possibly get before either the MK fad died, the "video game movie" fad died, or BOTH died. They didn't have the luxury of waiting for the audience to grow a bit older or for cultural standards to relax themselves. "We have Five Minutes to cash in. Let's do the best we can." Compared to everything else in its genre - and I've said this about lots of things that were similarly Of A Certain Time - it's a miracle its as good as it is.

Their foresight was proven semi-correct as well. A few short years later the "Tomb Raider" movies made decent money based off of Jolie's chest prosthetics and nothing else, BUT the Video Game Movie fad DID die - MK pretty much being considered "The Only Good One Ever Made" until Sonic came out - and while MK did not "die" it DID go into a huge lull for several years very shortly after the movie's success when MK4 under-performed and "Mythologies" was terrible. SO, their "Let's just get it done within whatever limitations we have before people stop paying any attention to us" approach was not only proven to be wise, it was very successful because the movie was a decent hit and is still fondly remembered. Almost 25 years as "The ONLY good or even decent Video Game Movie" is nothing to sneeze at. If they'd waited for the kids playing the games to grow up and be able to buy tickets to see R-rated movies, they'd have missed their entire window. By 2004 when MK was back on the rise, video game movies were rightly seen as a bad joke, with the MK movie from the 90s being the sole exception to that "Rule." Remove the 1990s MK movie from existence, you don't get any of what came later. You maybe don't even still have an MK franchise at all after the bottom drops out of the franchise in 1997.

I keep noticing how a lot of people can't seem to properly put things like this into the proper historical context because they're too busy looking back through a modern lens with the "Would'a-Could'a-Should'a." You can't do that, as fun as it may be, because it simply doesn't work. Context is everything. Historical perspective is everything. Putting one's self "in the moment" while trying to make sense of these decisions is everything, if we're sincerely trying to understand the "Why". Despite their outward pretenses, in 1994/5 MK was a "kids property" (See: the fact of how they made kids' clothing and comic books and stuff like that already BEFORE the movie or cartoon ever came out), and in turn they made a movie reflecting that, which still stayed as close as anyone possibly could to the spirit of the games if not the ultra-violent aesthetic.

Anyway, that's the Very Long Answer to your question. "What Were They Doing?" The very best they could while having a gun pressed to their head and a ticking clock counting down the seconds remaining for them to remain culturally relevant, in a time and place where video game franchises didn't stay popular for 30 years. "You can do EVERYTHING from the games... except show blood" in all honesty wasn't even THAT bad of a compromise, all things considered. They could have gone the, "Just change everything, people are stupid and won't care" approach. Thankfully, they didn't.
---------------

"Annihilation" on the other hand truly IS godawful. Easily one of the worst movies ever made with no redeeming factors outside of maybe a couple hot chicks. Even "DOA: Dead Or Alive" was better because at least they knew they were making junk and leaned into it unapologetically. MK:A is just worthless.

Biggest difference I felt between the two MK films, was that with the first one, they at least TRIED to make a "good movie" and not JUST a cash-in. MK:A, they saw those last few sands in the hourglass about to fall and said "F*ck it. Let's cram in as many characters from MK2 and MK3 as we can, this thing's about to hit a wall anyway" and cranked it out in desperation. Same problems X-Men 3 had, "Let's just cram a million characters in for two-second cameos and not have them DO anything of importance. People will be too busy going 'Hey, it's ______!' to notice or care that they may as well be cardboard cut-outs." Except, people DID notice.

First movie is goddamn "Citizen Kane" compared to the SECOND one. Good Lord. I really don't actually get legitimately angry at movies very often because I have better things to do. BUT, MK:A is admittedly very bad for my blood pressure. No soul whatsoever. At least with the first one, they TRIED.
--------------

I'm actually not looking forward to the new MK movie very much, because it wasn't that long ago they were trying to sell a script with the main characters being teenaged kids and they wanted everybody to be all excited about it. I know that's not the project currently in development, but it tells me that, like TMNT, the people running the movie arm of the franchise don't know what they have and will just fling sh*t at the wall until they get something workable.

Wish I could be excited, but I'll believe it's worth being excited over when I see that for myself. They've made like two dozen announcements for MK movies "in development" over the last 20 years, all terrible, all never made. But NOW they suddenly figured it out? I don't buy it. But hey, I'd love to be wrong. The web series was great. BUT, they had a lot more freedom than a movie will have, though. Different stakes, different standards.

We shall see.
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Old 09-08-2020, 07:59 AM   #222
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Definitely reason to be skeptical over the new MK movie. As a fan of the franchise, I'm extremely curious to see what they come up with, and I expect to have a good time experiencing just that, but a great movie would certainly be a welcome surprise.

The producer's only comments so far seem to be that the movie will have fatalities and gore. That's a good message to get out there, but after a few of those comments I'm left thinking "okay, and what else?"
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Old 09-08-2020, 08:41 AM   #223
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They have a great lore and mythology and whatever else to work with, so I want to be excited. SF games might be "better" but I think part of why MK survives and occasionally thrives is that they have a MUCH better story and more memorable characters. I like SF just fine but by comparison it's very bland. MK just has a much richer tapestry of elements in play.

The "Raiden" spot from the web series with him stuck in the asylum and unable to summon his power is one of my favorite things ever. Felt like Snyder directed it. It amazes me how much people hate it, but then I read the comments and it's like, very clear they didn't "get it".

That whole entire series was great. A few creative choices I wouldn't have made but on the whole it felt like they did much more Right than Wrong. Any movie would do well to try and stick close to what they did there.
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Old 09-08-2020, 09:04 AM   #224
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I agree. I've always preferred the mechanics of Street Fighter, but I've played way more Mortal Kombat, just because I'm a sucker of that mythology and those characters.
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Old 09-08-2020, 11:52 AM   #225
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No, MK was bullsh**. If you're making a video game adaptation that can't even keep the same tone as what it's adapting... what are you doing?
MK movie was as close as you can get to MK1 aesthetics.
Original MK game was essentially "Bloodsport", but with ninjas and magic. Heck, whole MK franchise grew up out of attempt to make a video game based on Van Damme flicks, with him as the lead in the game, before he quit to make a game with Sega, which never came out.

Movie is essentially Bloodsport, but with ninjas and magic. And gore...MK1 gore was VERY mediocre. MK2 was where the meat is (mind the pun), but movie did its best with the climate it was made in.

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"Annihilation" on the other hand truly IS godawful. Easily one of the worst movies ever made with no redeeming factors outside of maybe a couple hot chicks. Even "DOA: Dead Or Alive" was better because at least they knew they were making junk and leaned into it unapologetically. MK:A is just worthless.
Annihilation was exactly that: execs believed that it'll make money on the name alone and released what was essentilally unfinished cut of the movie (which explains awful CGI and some other stuff, like Rain dying twice and embarassing green screen explosion).

In fact, this is what nearly killed the series, since Midway higher ups thought that slapping MK logo on a piece of **** would be enough to make it a blockbuster. They were in for a rude awakening, when MK4 was a mediocre success (outsold by all contemporaries, like Tekken and DOA and SoulEdge), MKM was a failure, MK Gold (on Dreamcast was unneeded and outdated), Special Forces and Advance (which got 0 score in some magazine) nearly put series into grave.

Gladly at this point Midway managers realized it was life or death situation for the series and gave developers enough time to make a decent game with updated mechanics, putting series back on the map.

I don't have faith in a new MK movie. Even if they nail gore, they need as well get fun and entertaining characters and some semblance of coherent plot.
Lately most blockbusters are lacking both of those elements, and most of the video game based movies, especially ones based on fighting games, end up as utter crap. We'll be lucky if it good enough to produce some memes. Last big Street Fighter movie was such garbage it was not even good for that.

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The "Raiden" spot from the web series with him stuck in the asylum and unable to summon his power is one of my favorite things ever. Felt like Snyder directed it. It amazes me how much people hate it, but then I read the comments and it's like, very clear they didn't "get it".
This was my favorite episodes in the web-series, alongside one with cyborgs. Because cyborgs doing martial arts is a sure way to make me orgasm.

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I agree. I've always preferred the mechanics of Street Fighter, but I've played way more Mortal Kombat, just because I'm a sucker of that mythology and those characters.
I always preferred MK control scheme, and this is why I hate MK11, since it plays more like hybrid between MK and SF, rather than MK game.
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Old 09-08-2020, 11:59 AM   #226
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It's been happening since they decided the "Mortal Kombat" movie needed to be OK for 13 year-olds. Beyond ridiculous. Before that, it'd be weird if such things weren't R. It wasn't even a question .
I still find it crazy how I was a Mortal Kombat fan at the time, but didn't notice the lack of...well...all the stuff that made Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat when seeing this film at the time because I was so focused on the story, the soundtrack, and the characters and liking all of those...especially after being disappointed with stuff like Super Mario Bros and Street Fighter. I think the only time while originally watching that had me react to the lack of signature Mortal Kombatish stuff was when Goro killed Johnny's friend. I was so waiting for that fatality that had been done to me countless times in the game. lol I was like...hey, wait! That's not a fatality! Ooo, stage fatality with Shang Tsung, cool... lol I was going on 14 at the time, I think.

My aunt was the one to point out how tame the movie was back then and then it hit me. I'd enjoyed it without all the gore without fully realizing it. lol
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No, MK was bullsh**. If you're making a video game adaptation that can't even keep the same tone as what it's adapting... what are you doing?
Because the ones who played the games wouldn't have been able to see it otherwise. They had to tone it down in some way. I know if this movie had been R-rated, I wouldn't have been able to see it because my mother wouldn't have let me see it. She was strict when it came to content in movies and television in regards to adult content and stuff. As for Mortal Kombat's game, she felt it was too silly to be taken seriously. Ironic, I know.
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I'll grant that the movie was moderately entertaining on its own... but jesus. And the sequel, Annihilation? Probably on my top 10 worst movies of all time list.
Ugh...Annihilation needed to be annihilated. Just a cash grab. Man, I remember how excited I was for it too. I remember Entertainment Tonight talking about it. I was hyped for it.

Then I saw it...not opening weekend, but the second weekend. My cousin and I should've seen the signs, but it's not like we could leave since we were dropped off. There were maybe about six people in the whole room. The reputation had gotten around, apparently, and I'd missed that.

Even though the first film wasn't gory or anything, at least, for the most part, they kept the story in-tact with borrowed elements from game 2. The acting was okay too and the music was cool. That dumpster fire of a second movie was just awful on all levels. They threw in characters just because. They turned Shao Khan into a whiny wimp with daddy and family issues that shouldn't have been there in the first place because they never existed! They made Shinnock unintimidating and unnecessary in general. The characters didn't seem to even know what they were supposed to be doing and nothing they did really accomplished anything. Jax was a walking stereotype. Raiden wasn't entertaining. They had a bajillion characters in the film that didn't need to be there. They threw in younger Sub-Zero but instead of having him help, he vanishes for the rest of the film and only had him fight Scorpion (who's just there for no reason) because people like Scorpion vs Sub-Zero and even then, they didn't do that right since Scorpion was more of a neutral character, not a bad guy lackey, which they messed up in the first film too. Nightwolf was pointless. Sheeva was pointless. Jade, one of my favorites in the game...pointless. Baraka was an abomination with his Party City mask, teased Kabal and Stryker, but didn't use them, tossed in Mileena just because,...ugh...

Geez, the story to MK3 was straight-forward and to the point in the game. Why didn't they just follow that plot and have earth's warriors gathering troops to go up against Shao Khan and his minions and get Sindell back to normal? They even had a bigger budget than the other film. Where did that money go? The Beast Wars CGI effects? >_>

I left that theater, my $6.50 (or whatever it was) completely wasted! I'm ashamed that I even contributed to their ticket sales!

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Old 09-08-2020, 12:24 PM   #227
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I think it says everything that needs saying about "Mulan" upon realizing that this is now the Mortal Kombat thread.

I also must say I admire Sumac's passion and knowledge with regard to the MK franchise. Jupi as well.

I personally can fumble my way through most fighting games okay against the computer but am very much an amateur. But I always found the MK games much easier and fun for someone like me who had neither the time, skill, nor inclination to "git gud" compared to the SF stuff. Not that MK is one-dimensional or anything like that, it's just much easier in general to pick up and play those games without a lot of experience, in my opinion. Like, you play video games to see and do Cool Sh*t, and the MK series has a much lower barrier for doing so compared to many other fighters. I probably wouldn't have gotten into other fighting series later on if I hadn't dabbled so frequently in the MK pool back in the 90s. Now, I pretty much play anything.

It's funny, because I didn't really consider myself "a fan" of the series back in the day, I just played the games once in a while at friends' houses and whatnot. I did have a sweatshirt featuring some awesome Tobias artwork of multiple characters after the first game came out (The series TOTALLY wasn't being marketed to kids, though. Having officially-licensed apparel designed and sold for 10-year olds was just a happy accident, really!), but I didn't pick it out, I got it as a gift from a well-intentioned but ill-informed relative for Christmas. Then I liked the movie alright. Then I really fell in love with "Juke Joint Jezebel" by KMFDM and thus bought the soundtrack for the movie... and then the OTHER movie soundtracks (including "More Kombat"). Then the "newer" MK games started coming out with "Deadly Alliance" and I had a lot of fun with all of those.

Yet, in spite of all that I've always been very hesitant to label myself a "fan" and I don't even know why. Maybe because I'm actually not that good at the games (least I don't think I am, I'unno) and thus labeling myself a fan seemed disingenuous. That's very silly, though, in thinking about it and realizing how much time and money I've spent on the brand. I guess I am a fan of the franchise when looking at the big picture, maybe even a pretty big one depending on criteria. I generally would have said "I merely enjoy and have a fond appreciation for the franchise and what it does" but I admit that REALLY seems like splitting hairs at this point.
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Old 09-08-2020, 02:34 PM   #228
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Mulan was possibly filmed next to concentration camps.

They've thanked/credited a number of organizations that are involved in the oppression of Muslim Uighurs.
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Old 09-08-2020, 09:28 PM   #229
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It's not going to look good, but let's be real here, I do not think China or Disney cares about this sadly. All Disney sees is Green and China can out right oppress it's people.
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Old 09-08-2020, 09:34 PM   #230
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They have a great lore and mythology and whatever else to work with, so I want to be excited. SF games might be "better" but I think part of why MK survives and occasionally thrives is that they have a MUCH better story and more memorable characters. I like SF just fine but by comparison it's very bland. MK just has a much richer tapestry of elements in play.

The "Raiden" spot from the web series with him stuck in the asylum and unable to summon his power is one of my favorite things ever. Felt like Snyder directed it. It amazes me how much people hate it, but then I read the comments and it's like, very clear they didn't "get it".

That whole entire series was great. A few creative choices I wouldn't have made but on the whole it felt like they did much more Right than Wrong. Any movie would do well to try and stick close to what they did there.
Back in the 90's LINES were drawn. You were either Team Street Fighter or Team Mortal Kombat. I choose Team Mortal Kombat. To this day I own at least some form of each game from Sega Genesis to the Switch. Hell I even have the 1up version of Mortal Kombat.

I think the reason MK is so strong today is because of Story, Characters, Blood, willing to go the extra rating were most fighting games are happy with Teen, and of course the battle stages. Each game is pretty good in it's own way. With all the hate MK4 gets, it was a pretty amazing 3D game at it's first attempt. Johnny Cage was always my favorite out of the cast.
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Old 09-09-2020, 12:48 AM   #231
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Y'all forgot that another reason the Mortal Kombat movie was better than the rest if because it had a story and they mostly stuck to it.

While I admit the Mario movie kept the bare essence of Mario and Luigi rescuing the Princess from Koopa, look at all the extra mess they threw in there to fill up the time slot.

The Double Dragon movie kind sorta kept the bare essence of Billy and Jimmy Lee saving Marion from gangs, but look at all the extra nonsense they threw in there to fill up the time slot.

The Street Fighter movie, which easily could have been about a gawd damn international martial arts tournament considering the fact that Van Damne has already been in similar movies, and we could have had Guile and Chun Li going after Bison for revenge was discarded for whatever the hell crazy-ass over-convoluted plot De Sousa was on. What pisses me off the most was the fact that in an interview in EGM (or Gamepro I forget) he literally he could have made the movie be about some martial arts tournament and maybe they discover Bison is a druglord or whatever, but that would be a small budget film, we got a big budget, we can do better!. WTF dude.

Mortal Kombat dealt with a deadly martial arts tournament, the last one that Earth simple HAS to win or Outworld will take over, and guess what... they kept all of those details in the movie! They kept stuff that was in the official lore like Sonya only being involved cause she was chasing Kano and such. The director didn't look at the game's lore and just said 'eh, we could do it better'. They actually stuck to the script! A movie based on a tournament fighting game that actually has a tournament in it, like who woulda thought right?

I swear De Sousa just took a look at Guile and Bison's uniforms and thought 'yeah, let's make this a military type movie about rescuing hostages! Let's rent some tanks and choppers! Cause that's Street Fighter! Not this Ha-Do-Ken crap."
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:45 AM   #232
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Yeah, I agree with all of that. I was always blown away by how faithful the MK movie was to what I knew of the story at that time - which wasn't much, but everything I recognized was in there in some form or fashion. It wasn't completely "In Name Only" like every other video game movie I'd ever seen up to that point or most of them since. I came away from it thinking, "Well it wasn't perfect, but overall, THAT's how you do these things." And then nobody ever bothered to try after that. It's still the only one I'm aware of that treats its source material faithfully even a little bit. No gore, sure... but everything else is there, and I'd honestly argue that's more important.

I mean let's be honest... if someone made a "Mortal Kombat" movie, and there were no recognizable characters or settings and it was set on Earth to save money, and there was no Outworld or tournament and Shang Tsung was just some international crime boss or whatever, and Goro was just a regular guy on steroids and so on... BUT, you had guys ripping heads off and ripping out hearts and all of that... would that HONESTLY be better? I think that'd be terrible, frankly. "Well, at least it was violent!" Yeah, but if they lost everything else, it'd have even LESS to do with MK than the sanitized and relatively bloodless original movie did. I think they proved that you CAN lose the gore and still remain faithful, but you can NOT lose the story, setting, or characters and still say it's Mortal Kombat. In the Big Picture, some things are ultimately much more important than others.

My wife still unapologetically loves the first SF movie, but she's biased as hell as a fan of the franchise and to this day is all "I'm just happy they even made it." Also Guile is her favorite character so again, more bias. We don't "fight" about it, but I'm totally not allowed to say it's bad without getting some kind of fierce rebuttal. It's SO bad, though. Guile's little "rah-rah" speech near the end was nice, but on the whole the movie is such crap. I really don't see how even a fan could ever excuse it. Like, I enjoy the DOA movie, but I'd never say it was GOOD, it ain't good, it's just a very entertaining Bad Movie that was at least faithful to its source material. SF wasn't even THAT; it was neither faithful nor particularly entertaining. Although by all accounts JCVD was absolutely coked off his tits for the entire duration of filming so that's sort of fun to watch once you know that. But by that point you're reaaaaally reaching for something to be entertained by if you're reduced to looking for that kinda thing.

Who ever thought they'd ever make a WORSE SF movie? And then, somehow, there's "Legend of Chun-Li". Full-Stop, pretty sure that's the absolute worst thing ever made. It's GOTTA be up there. The only entertaining thing about that movie wasn't even IN the movie; it was the time someone from the cast went on "Attack of the Show" and they played a clip from it, and when they came back you could just see Kevin Pereira trying harder than he'd ever tried in his entire life NOT to just rip the entire goddamn thing to shreds on live TV. How he ever kept a straight face, I'll never know, but you could see it in his eyes. I'm sure as soon as they cut to commercial he just exploded, but he kept it together until then and I tip my hat to him for that.

Like, Good LORD. There's Bad Movies, and then there's goddamn "Legend of Chun-Li." I don't understand how some sh*t even gets made. Seriously. They could've looked at the dailies on like, Day Two and realized that thing wasn't gonna work, and they should've cut their loses then. I'd be all about a REAL SF movie, but... Lord knows THAT ain't happening. I doubt any reputable studio would ever touch the brand again after "Legend of Chun-Li".
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:19 PM   #233
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One of the draws of MK over its competitors, was easier control scheme and the fact that characters only had different special moves, but their regular moves were the same.

Then all characters got different normal moves and then developers had started adding subsystems upon systems in the gameplay, catering to the competitive crowd, which I think is a mistake since MK was never popular competitive fighting game and it has become a best-seller solely because it was appealing to casuals. MK11 is especially guilty of this, IMO.

Even this days, when WB wasted crapton of money to the keep MK and Injustice tournament scenes alive, those games survive as active disciplines only for about 2-3 years before being replaced by their successors.

Street Fighter movie is a crap, but it is such hilarious and memetic crap, I can't hate it.

Double Dragon as well. Despite being made in the 90s it perfectly captured style of 80s schlockbuster movies. This alone is a good reason for me not to hate it.
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Old 09-10-2020, 04:39 PM   #234
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:25 AM   #235
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China ban all media coverage of the movie

https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2611FP


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Old 09-11-2020, 12:32 PM   #236
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I will never not be amused by fragility of Chinese state.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:49 PM   #237
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So how much money did Disney lose on this? Didn't it cost like 200 million or something?

No theatrical release, no release in China which it was made for, how much money did they lose? Not to mention most of the people watching it digitally are doing it either illegally or with a Disney + subscription already
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:12 PM   #238
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Hopefully they lost enough to put an end to this entire "live-action remake" experiment. Blech.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:03 PM   #239
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I've never watched the original Mulan as it came at a time that Disney's second golden age was waning and I was losing interest but I saw one of those budget DVDs they have by the the check out of supermarkets of it so I decided to check it out before going into the new version. It was actually much better than expected. I'd put it ahead Hercules and Hunchback of Notre Dame easily.

As for the new version I liked it fine. I tend to think these live action remakes are in an awkward position of recreating something which was not designed to be live. The new Mulan didn't even try to go in that direction and I think was better for it but I understand if people think otherwise.

Oh and...

As a kid I loved them both I lost track of Street Fighter mid way through the Alpha series though I did pick up Super Street Fighter IV and didn't pick up any Mortal Kombat game after III but going back and playing the series SF over MK.

Also the first Street Fighter movie is the anime it's also the only Street Fighter movie anyone should recognise. Not even Ming Na and Kylie Minogue could get me to watch the live version again.
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Old 09-11-2020, 08:14 PM   #240
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Kylie Minogue is Cammy in Street Fighter omg???
Just saw some vids she did okay in that campy movie I reckon.

But yeah the Street Fighter 2 animated movie is the best. It really hold up surprisingly - bloody brutal fights, engaging story and beautiful animation. Saw it like 2 weeks ago and I’m surprised people don’t talk more about it. One of the reason why I changed my avatar to Ryu heh.
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