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Old 10-02-2019, 10:50 PM   #121
Andrew NDB
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Originally Posted by AquaParade View Post
You don't think that a groundbreaking film, when it comes to content and creative freedom, could meaningfully elevate or grow things?
Maybe for more "movies in a bottle" like it. But we've rattled sabers about that before and can agree to disagree about what overall is the best outcome.

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I mean, seriously. Did you guys see King of the Monsters? So bad.
The human stuff (which was quite good in the first one, if not at the best balance with the monster stuff) was appallingly bad in it.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:47 PM   #122
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Whenever anyone here talks about movies, I'm immediately reminded why I don't talk about movies here anymore.
--------------------------------

I expect to see this if a whole week goes by without a theater shooting, but I'm not expecting to be Wow'ed. It definitely looks like an interesting character study, but the folks who are saying it's basically a lazy "Taxi Driver" remake with a popular brand name slapped on top to ensure tons of ticket sales are probably dead on the money. Because that's exactly what it looks like.

Which doesn't mean it's bad. It doesn't look "bad", exactly. It looks like it would be a good movie if it wasn't called "Joker", and that it's specifically called "Joker" for nothing but cynical financial reasons.

As a general rule, if your "adaptation" goes out of its way to disavow and reject the source material, I'd prefer you not piggyback on someone else's work to get more attention for yourself. It's cheap heat. But I know I lost that battle forever ago.

Looks intriguing. Probably decent. Doesn't need to be called "Joker", though. That's all a work, and it irritates me.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:59 AM   #123
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Maybe for more "movies in a bottle" like it. But we've rattled sabers about that before and can agree to disagree about what overall is the best outcome.



The human stuff (which was quite good in the first one, if not at the best balance with the monster stuff) was appallingly bad in it.
True and true. I respect your opinion, but I have to call oit the idea that a film can't meaningfully elevate things because it's not in a cinematic universe. Just crazy to me. But I guess you mean it wouldn't...elevate things for you. Which is fair.

The human stuff was abysmal. I wanted to ignore it and just be able to appreciate the monster stuff but apparently I wasn't capable.

Leo, I get where you're coming from regarding the source material. The team has pretty much gone out of their way to essentially say "this isn't a silly comic" which turns me off a tad, but I also think it's the nature of the press junket. You have to maybe overcorrect a tad so people understand this isn't your typical comic movie - it's quite different, and audiences should be aware.
Those are my feelings on comments from Joaquin and Todd.

As for the movies actual resemblance to the source material, I'm quite flexible. The craft is what matters most to me. I mean, i do need enough of a tug to feel like it's at least roughly based on the source material, and apparently there is enough there for me in that sense. It's a radical departure but still feels like Joker to me based on footage I've seen and specific comic-inspired plot elements. People say that if it wasn't called "Joker" then no one would know it's a Joker movie, but that is what I call an exaggeration. "Wannabe comedian in Gotham City has a bad few days and turns into a homicidal maniac in clown paint?" Yeah, that's Joker alright. At least one interpretation of him, of which there are many, each with their own variances.

Again, I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to adaptation, but this is recognizable as Joker from a mile away.

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Old 10-03-2019, 06:03 AM   #124
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Seen it, enjoyed it.
Funny, I thought this was on past your bedtime.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:01 PM   #125
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Movie is down to 70% now:

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Joker is a bad movie, yes: It's predictable, clichéd, deeply derivative of other, better movies, and overwritten to the point of self-parody.
https://slate.com/culture/2019/10/jo...-violence.html

Yikes, looks like DC is back in the rut again.

Shame because I had high hopes in this one.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:08 PM   #126
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Movie is down to 70% now:



https://slate.com/culture/2019/10/jo...-violence.html

Yikes, looks like DC is back in the rut again.

Shame because I had high hopes in this one.
I don't know. That seems like a lot of weight to put into one review to me.

I'd focus more on the bigger picture when it comes to reviews, box office, etc.
For instance, If we are going to use Rotten Tomatoes as the keeper of truth, lets use the Rotten Tomatoes Joker Consensus:
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Joker gives its infamous central character a chillingly plausible origin story that serves as a brilliant showcase for its star -- and a dark evolution for comics-inspired cinema.
Movie is likely to set box office records for October this weekend, according to Fandango. And the people enjoying it are reviewing it quite highly. Maybe it's not for you? I don't know. I just am trying to understand the idea that DC is back in the rut again because not everybody loves this film.

I guess it depends on what you compare it to...which can be kinda sticky when we are talking about DC movies. I mean, I absolutely loathe Suicide Squad, but it made a lot of money and a chunk of fans. I can't really label it a failure, but I consider it a part of the terrible streak DC was on.

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Old 10-03-2019, 06:20 PM   #127
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There's over 200 reviews on rotten now so the score dropped to 70%. Wouldn't be surprised if it drops to the 60% range like Aquaman did.

DC just can't catch a break, other than Shazam I guess.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:23 PM   #128
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There's over 200 reviews on rotten now so the score dropped to 70%. Wouldn't be surprised if it drops to the 60% range like Aquaman did.

DC just can't catch a break, other than Shazam I guess.
Aquaman broke 1 billion in the box office. You don't get a bigger break than that. Maybe critics didn't love it, but they liked it, generally speaking. It did wonderfully. I didn't like it, but it doesn't change anything.

I didn't see Shazam, but it it's the lowest grossing DC film since the DCEU began. I guess you must be speaking to your personal satisfaction with the DC films, because financially, and even critically to an extent, you seem to be confused.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:35 PM   #129
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Funny, I thought this was on past your bedtime.
Come on, man. That joke doesn't really work for movies in movie theaters. They play at any time. You're cleverer than this.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:49 PM   #130
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I've actually seen this movie now.
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Some aspects, such as Arthur's relationship with a single mother, is clearly shown to be part of his schizofrenic imagination. And it's heavily implied that much of the bad stuff that happens to him are also schizofrenic delusions. At first it seems like his problems are genetic, but when it's revealed that he's adopted it's implied that his illness instead stems from head trauma and repressed memories of his mother beating him as a child.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:58 PM   #131
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Funny, I thought this was on past your bedtime.
Aww, someone pissy cause they didn’t change your diaper? Thought this wasn’t shown at your elderly home? Why bother with this movie old man? Stick to yelling at clouds and people walking on your lawn, you’re good at that.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:01 PM   #132
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I've actually seen this movie now.
Spoiler:
Some aspects, such as Arthur's relationship with a single mother, is clearly shown to be part of his schizofrenic imagination. And it's heavily implied that much of the bad stuff that happens to him are also schizofrenic delusions. At first it seems like his problems are genetic, but when it's revealed that he's adopted it's implied that his illness instead stems from head trauma and repressed memories of his mother beating him as a child.
Yeah that’s sad.
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I didn’t get how she, a mental patient gets to adopt a child legally though. Isn’t that weird or just a negligence case that allowed her such custody.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:59 PM   #133
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Movie discussions on The Technodrome Forums:

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Old 10-03-2019, 08:05 PM   #134
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There's over 200 reviews on rotten now so the score dropped to 70%. Wouldn't be surprised if it drops to the 60% range like Aquaman did.

DC just can't catch a break, other than Shazam I guess.
See, I'm on the fence now. I was calling this movie as a failure and waste of resources since I first heard about it.

But then it got all of this good traction and I was wondering if, inexplicably, it was going to be a good flick. Now this.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:13 PM   #135
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And here we go..



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Old 10-03-2019, 09:48 PM   #136
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As for the movies actual resemblance to the source material, I'm quite flexible. The craft is what matters most to me. I mean, i do need enough of a tug to feel like it's at least roughly based on the source material, and apparently there is enough there for me in that sense. It's a radical departure but still feels like Joker to me based on footage I've seen and specific comic-inspired plot elements. People say that if it wasn't called "Joker" then no one would know it's a Joker movie, but that is what I call an exaggeration. "Wannabe comedian in Gotham City has a bad few days and turns into a homicidal maniac in clown paint?" Yeah, that's Joker alright. At least one interpretation of him, of which there are many, each with their own variances.

Again, I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to adaptation, but this is recognizable as Joker from a mile away.
Right, because he's wearing clown paint. And they call it "Gotham", but it could easily be the exact same story if it were any big city and it wouldn't change anything. He could have Tourettes instead of a "laughing disorder", and it would be the same movie. Thomas Wayne could be called "Edgar Payne", and as long as he was a rich guy/Trump stand-in, the story would be the same. All of the "Joker" trappings are completely superficial, and don't ultimately affect much of the actual story of, "Mentally Ill Person Snaps After Being 'Pushed Too Far'."

Make no mistake, though, that probably works in the film's favor. That's why I think it's going to appeal quite a bit to a large group of people who would not normally see a movie (ostensibly) based on a comic book character. Because while they're using the name "Joker" to sell a tickets, it could ultimately be a story about any guy, in any city, and nothing would be different. He could be wearing a Guy Fawkes mask instead of clown paint, and it would be exactly the same thing, but probably wouldn't get as much attention.

Like I said, I think it's ultimately going to be a good "movie" movie and probably a pretty good character study of a mentally ill person. I just think it's only called "Joker" for publicity reasons and that's annoying.
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Old 10-03-2019, 11:06 PM   #137
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Right, because he's wearing clown paint. And they call it "Gotham", but it could easily be the exact same story if it were any big city and it wouldn't change anything. He could have Tourettes instead of a "laughing disorder", and it would be the same movie. Thomas Wayne could be called "Edgar Payne", and as long as he was a rich guy/Trump stand-in, the story would be the same. All of the "Joker" trappings are completely superficial, and don't ultimately affect much of the actual story of, "Mentally Ill Person Snaps After Being 'Pushed Too Far'."

Make no mistake, though, that probably works in the film's favor. That's why I think it's going to appeal quite a bit to a large group of people who would not normally see a movie (ostensibly) based on a comic book character. Because while they're using the name "Joker" to sell a tickets, it could ultimately be a story about any guy, in any city, and nothing would be different. He could be wearing a Guy Fawkes mask instead of clown paint, and it would be exactly the same thing, but probably wouldn't get as much attention.

Like I said, I think it's ultimately going to be a good "movie" movie and probably a pretty good character study of a mentally ill person. I just think it's only called "Joker" for publicity reasons and that's annoying.
This same logic could be applied to Batman. Give him a spider mask and put him in Chicago and it's still the same story...it just looks weird.

If you change superficial aspects and it is still a Joker movie, that supports the argument that it's a Joker film at its core.

Which is essentially a failed comedian who's life comes crumbling around him until he snaps and turns to a murderous life free of rationality or ideals. And of course, there's the shaky narration aspect - maybe it's all bs. This film has all of that. It has legit elements of The Killng Joke and Dark Knight Returns. It's a full blown Joker movie in my eyes. I am a hardcore fan, and I've seen the film, which counts for something.

That's how I see it, but maybe we are just seeing things differently.

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Old 10-03-2019, 11:33 PM   #138
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Saw the film and thought it was fantastic. I agree with the reviews that it is gorgeously shot, sounds beautiful, and has a captivating performance by Joaquin. It may be an even slower burn than I expected (so yeah, not perfect - the plot didn't always have a sense of urgency for me) but I already have several favorite scenes. Some scenes are actually quite haunting. That is not something I can say sincerely about any other comic movie. Really pleased with this film. It was a pleasure seeing such a down n dirty, realistic take on a character/franchise/genre I love.

For me, it was almost like a hyper-realized version of seeing live action Spider-Man, or another live action comic book movie, for the first time. That might come off stronger than I intend, but it's about that excitement that comes from seeing something "brought to life" on screen. The realistic take really does that for me. It feels alive. It's potent.

Side note: It's really odd what scenes some audiences will laugh at. Roaring laughter at parts I really didn't find comedic. And they weren't laughing at it for being bad, like Spider-Man 3. It was clearly people laughing at what they thought were jokes. Sorry to say, it actually kind if annoyed me. My solace being that I'm not the only person to have this experience, based on other online comments I've seen.

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Old 10-04-2019, 12:25 AM   #139
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For what it's worth, the more centric, non-SJW you tube reviewers are saying great things about the flick. I'm not trying to elevate Youtube reviewers, but I'm just more ensconced by this than I have been for a movie in - I don't know... forever because I've gone from waving this sucker off to actually being interested in it.
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Old 10-04-2019, 03:08 AM   #140
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I don't know why people are talking about source material in here when it's an origin film about a character who doesn't traditionally have an origin. I thought the film was excellently executed. I never saw Taxi Driver, but I've been meaning to for ages now, so I don't know how similar the films are, but I don't think that takes away from the fact that this works as a Joker origin.

This isn't a movie about the Joker, it's a movie about the guy that becomes Joker and how our cruel society can be very dismissive of people with mental illness, which leads to things like mass shootings, suicides, and all sorts of horrible tragedies. That's why the film was treated so realistically and not like a comic book movie. Arthur's tragedy feels very real in this film, even if generic to some of you, but that's kind of the genius of it. The film doesn't have to be called Joker, you can change names around and it can literally be a story about anyone. But isn't that kind of the point of the Joker? Anyone can become just like him after one bad day. I was even reminded of the Bjork stalker suicide tape at one point in the film which hammered home just how real Arthur's emotions are.

I had no expectations going into this film, and I was rather mixed on how they were going about portraying the Joker and whether or not they would go the stupid anti-hero route that glorifies a mentally deranged man. But I always kind of trusted that whether I liked the film or not, that it would at least be a solid film due to the people and passion behind it, and I honestly think they nailed it. I didn't expect the movie to go anywhere near the Batman mythos, but they did an amazing job setting it up with that ending.
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