tmnt 120 discussion

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Bahamut810

Lets go with she is being told what to write, do you have a link to where she said this? Did she say what her direction was? If she said she is being told 'what not to write' and is just barred from writing about the pantheon....this is still her story that her name is attached to.

I haven't heard that here. Though it'd make a little bit of sense, in the bigger picture.

Pure speculation on my part:

* Tom gets all the way to #100 writing things as he will with minimum interference from Nick/Viacom.

* Suddenly Nick/Viacom takes an interest in IDW's TMNT comic. Maybe it's because of all the press Jennika garnered during that "Reveal," or maybe there it's just coincidental timing. Anyway, they start dictating to IDW that the comic be more "diverse," less about violence and more about inclusion and hand-holding, and so on. All of those kind of talking points.

* Tom sees the writing on the wall with the core IDW TMNT book and, together with Kevin (and Peter, in a roundabout way) pitch/resurrect/develop "The Last Ronin" to Nick/Viacom as a "way out" of being kind of forced to write the core book in the way that Nick/Viacom wants them to. Nick/Viacom bites. Tom goes full-time on "The Last Ronin," with the expectation/hope that Nick/Viacom would maybe stop being so heavy handed with their mandates after a certain point.

* The core book is handed over to Sophie, with the expectation being she'd fill in until Nick/Viacom stops wanting things to be "a certain way" on it.

* Years pass. Nick/Viacom still want the core IDW book to be done "a certain way." Sophie's run gets extended.

Does this sound... kind of right?

[ChosenOne]

Campbell wanted to kill off Hob and wasn't allowed. That's what she was referring to, probably among other things in a similar vein. I guess he didn't fit in with her fluffy, furry, kumbaya-let's-all-be-friends-but-first-dispose-of-everyone-I-don't-like fanfic vision of what TMNT is supposed to be.

[Bahamut810]

Does this sound... kind of right?

There is no telling. It doesn't sound wrong.

Campbell wanted to kill off Hob and wasn't allowed.

If we are lucky she will get her wish, at least something meaningful will happen...

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Bahamut810

If we are lucky she will get her wish, at least something meaningful will happen...

On the contrary, that would be the final straw.

[Andrew NDB]

I doubt Sophie would even attempt to kill off Old Hob without at least consulting Tom. So if it even got on the docket at all for Nick to say "yes" or "no," I'm assuming it was with his blessing.

That in itself is a little worrisome, though, isn't it? Like IDW could create a brand new TMNT character tomorrow, then want to kill them off a year later... and Nickelodeon could just be like, "No, you can't do that"? Apparently? Yeesh. Or was the "no" from Tom and/or Bobby and not Nickelodeon?

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I doubt Sophie would even attempt to kill off Old Hob without at least consulting Tom. So if it even got on the docket at all for Nick to say "yes" or "no," I'm assuming it was with his blessing.

That in itself is a little worrisome, though, isn't it? Like IDW could create a brand new TMNT character tomorrow, then want to kill them off a year later... and Nickelodeon could just be like, "No, you can't do that"? Apparently? Yeesh. Or was the "no" from Tom and/or Bobby and not Nickelodeon?

I don't know the specifics, only that it happened. Apparently she intended to have Hob lynched/beaten to death by the mob in the current arc, and it was soundly - and wisely - shot down.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Even if certain things were off limits, that in no way absolves Sophie. This arc sucks because it sucks, pure and simple. Sophie clearly has talent, but is not using any of it to write this story. It's up to a writer to make a story good, regardless of any "limitations" put upon them (and this really sounds like a copout to me). Look at Tom Waltz. Go back and read the early stories in this run. They weren't even allowed to have blood for the longest time, and he still managed to create a compelling narrative, which only got better as restrictions were lifted and he was allowed to do more of what he wanted. Sophie has no excues. This run has sucked because Sophie took a good concept, focused on none of the interesting parts of that concept, and then dragged it out far past the point when we should have moved on, in addition to all of the incredibly shoehorned "diversity" that's making the comic insufferable.

[Bahamut810]

More then anything I hope that this does not end with hob rolling over and admiting that he was totally wrong about everything forever. One of the things that I like about him in what I have read so far is that he is not 100% right or wrong. I can understand why he is doing what he is doing. It would feel like a betrayal of the character for him to go all 'gooey' like Aleopex and to a lesser extent Raphael have become.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

They weren't even allowed to have blood for the longest time

Did this ever change? As I recall, there was never a moratorium on blood or killing even at the beginning... but only as long as the blood wasn't being spilled by the Turtles themselves and they themselves weren't doing the killing. Like, they could have Shredder or some random villain kill someone on-panel with blood, but when it came to the Turtles... no go.

Which when that became clear (particularly during "City Fall"), coupled with the bandanna bait-and-switch, is when I had to let the book go.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Did this ever change? As I recall, there was never a moratorium on blood or killing even at the beginning... but only as long as the blood wasn't being spilled by the Turtles themselves and they themselves weren't doing the killing. Like, they could have Shredder or some random villain kill someone on-panel with blood, but when it came to the Turtles... no go.

Which when that became clear (particularly during "City Fall"), coupled with the bandanna bait-and-switch, is when I had to let the book go.

Yeah, this changed. In the very first fight with the Shredder, for example, he beats the crap out of Splinter and no blood is spilled. In the earliest issues, not even the Villains spilled blood, and the very few times it happened, it was colored black. Later, they were allowed to have actual blood spilled by all parties, and the fights were actually allowed to be violent. The only thing that never truly went away was the moritorium on the Turtles themselves killing anyone, but I think Waltz managed to create a good story regardless of this.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Bahamut810

It would feel like a betrayal of the character for him to go all 'gooey' like Aleopex and to a lesser extent Raphael have become.

You just know Campbell would love to push a love triangle between Raph, Alopex and Hob.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

You just know Campbell would love to push a love triangle between Raph, Alopex and Hob.

In the name of all that is holy, spare me.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

In the name of all that is holy, spare me.

You and me both.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I don't know the specifics, only that it happened. Apparently she intended to have Hob lynched/beaten to death by the mob in the current arc, and it was soundly - and wisely - shot down.

A visual metaphor of destroying the book's roots, how fitting.

[Andrew NDB]

I really tend to believe such a thing was shot down on the editorial or writer side level, unless there's any proof otherwise.