Thoughts on Bojack Horseman

[PApagreg]

Well I got a good idea what the forum thinks of Rick and Morty now I want to know what their thoughts on Bojack Horseman is. I personally think its one of the finest adult animated programs out there in fact I think its much better than Rick and Morty in a lot of ways(not saying Rick and Morty is bad) especially in terms of character and how the show go on about its themes.

[Utrommaniac]

Oh, BoJack Horseman is better than Rick and Morty by miles . Even with a lot of the characters paralleling - especially BoJack and Rick.
The difference is that the audience doesn't miss the message that they shouldn't aspire to be like BoJack...unlike the "fans" of Rick who completely miss the point of Rick being an awful person who is petrified by the idea of changing himself for self-improvement.

And for as badly as BoJack treats Todd, he'd never do any of the sh*t Rick does to Morty.

They're both terrible people, but BoJack at the very least has made attempts to be better and wants to be better, even if he fails in the end.

Spoiler:

But maybe Hollyhock can be his force for change. She's an entirely new relationship for him. She's not a co-star, or a best friend, or an ex, or a moocher roommate, and isn't even his daughter.
She's his sister. Something he's never had before, not even a sister figure.
She's his clean slate for self-improvement. She's the one that he absolutely cannot mess up with (again) because he's her brother and that's a whole new set of expectations for himself.

That and he'll probably be beaten up by her eight dads if they find out he messed up again

Also, Princess Carolyn is my favorite character and I just want her to have a baby like she always wanted!

The fifth season will probably be the start of developing and filming Philbert and I hope that goes well for everyone.

[dl316bh]

I think Rick and Morty wallows in nihilism too much to ever have anything meaningful to say.

Bojack's all about trying to have an honest look at depression between the gags and jokes, without ever selling out its themes or papering over the actions of the protagonist, much less the consequences.

They seem like two entirely different shows now that it looks like Rick and Morty isn't really going to dig too deep on Ricks issues.

[Utrommaniac]

"Wallows in nihilism" is probably the best way I've ever seen it described . I mean, I thought John Gardner's depiction of Grendel was a wallower, but man...Rick.

I think BoJack's "nothing matters" schpiel to Sarah Lynn in the planetarium is a more accurate analysis on nihilism than Rick could ever belch. Mostly because it begins with "We aren't doomed"

(also it's a beautiful scene even with it ending with BoJack realizing that Sarah Lynn has died)

It's a more profound and hopeful version of Morty's "nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's going to die, come watch TV."

[raph27]

Bojack Horseman is probably the best show I've watched this year. Just started it in October, went through all 4 seasons and now I'm rewatching season one.

It has the best cut to credit moments as well. Helps that the credit music is so great, though I always have to make sure Netflix doesn't skip ahead to the next episode. The first time I saw that planetarium scene my jaw dropped.

I'm excited for season 5.

Spoiler:

Are Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane getting a divorce? It seemed like they were leading to that at the end of season 4.

[TigerClaw]

All the stuff I'm hearing about Bojack Horseman sounds like a really depressing show, so I guess its not for me.

[Utrommaniac]

Not always. It's a pretty good show and does have some pretty funny moments.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Not always. It's a pretty good show and does have some pretty funny moments.

Yeah but if a person told me they don't like to watch depressing things I would't show them Bojack, the show gets real and this is coming from a guy who watched season 1 of Boondocks

Going back to the whole Rick and Bojack comparisons, one of the things that I think makes Bojack more of an interesting character is that compared to Rick he feels more mortal and vunerable. Whenever Rick is an trouble there aren't a lot of instances where I think he is an danger and whenever he ****s up it doesn't feel like it really hurts him, worst case secnario its back to the status quo for Rick. Whenever Bojack screws up however he burns bridges and forever damages to relationship between the person he did wrong. It actually feels like Bojack suffers through consequences instead small quagmires

[TigerClaw]

I like watching stuff that are feel good and fun, not that depressing stuff, Rick and Morty on the other hand, I know its a series aimed at adults, but sometimes the adult stuff doesn't appeal to me, when the characters on the shows are just plain terrible people, I can't relate to that stuff.

[Utrommaniac]

I personally don't think it's as depressing as some people make it out to be. Is it about characters dealing with Depression? Yeah, but it's not a constant drag. And does it cover some dark material like Chicken 4 Dayz? Yes. (That's actually my favorite episode though; it's one of the more "wacky romp" ones that doesn't end with someone shooting themselves in the foot somehow)


And that's a good point about Rick too! Especially when he seems basically unstoppable and lets it get to his head. He's overpowered - though that seems to be knocked down a lot at the end of season 3 when Jerry comes home.

[dl316bh]

I actually avoided Bojack entirely up until about a year ago for the same reason of fans making it sound depressing and not wanting any part of that.

Having seen it now, I don't really think it's depressing, necessarily, so much as it's just about depression. There are plenty of heart wrenching moments, but there are good ones too, and it's almost funny to me that the funny animal show is the most real show of all about its subject matter. It has good payoffs too.

I think part of the shows craft is knowing just where the line is for falling into something too depressing and expertly dancing around it. A lot of the lowest moments of the show, characterwise, are buffered by great jokes or funny situations that help soften the blow and keep it from being too much. It's worth the ride, trust me. You really get to love these characters and this silly ass world.

Originally Posted by raph27

Spoiler:

Are Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane getting a divorce? It seemed like they were leading to that at the end of season 4.

It was bound to happen. The seeds for the fall were there from the start. I did a rewatch recently for season four and a lot of things really jump out at you when you go through the whole thing.

Whenever Rick is an trouble there aren't a lot of instances where I think he is an danger and whenever he ****s up it doesn't feel like it really hurts him, worst case secnario its back to the status quo for Rick.

That's why the show will probably never have anything worthwhile to say. I said it wallows in nihilism and I mean it. It's entire point is "nothing matters", which informs Ricks entire character. The only way to do anything is to deconstruct that, to have Rick realize there are things that do matter - his family, so on and so forth - something I'm not sure the show will do. It also undermines anything emotional about the show. Sure, the psychiatrist speech was great, but when you've got a character who doesn't learn anything, is portrayed as the coolest and thinks it's perfectly fine to just slip into another dimension with other versions of his family if things go south, how can you really make that hit home for the show or the audience?

Which is fine, I suppose. Plenty of funny shows don't have a point. I loved a lot of the first few seasons of Aqua Teen Hunger Force and that show wasn't much more than an acid trip vomited onto television screens. But it'll be interesting to see how audiences end up reacting to it if it keeps going as it has. Thinking a show is going to be one type of it and realizing it's another can change how people think or feel about it a lot.

[Utrommaniac]

I do hope Diane and Mister Peanutbutter stay together. Mostly because I think a lot of their problems are within themselves as individuals.

Mister Peanutbutter hasn't gotten it to his head that Diane doesn't like grand gestures and Diane is uncomfortable with Mister Peanutbutter's attempts to go all out for her. It seems like the one time they were both at the same level as one another was the "Brap Brap Pew Pew" episode - especially on Mister Peanutbutter's part.

[TigerClaw]

I can't watch a show that's about depression, cause that is depressing in itself for me, which is why I prefer watching shows that are more fun and full of life, I know Depression is a serious problem, but I never experience such things myself, so I don't know what its like, which is why I can't relate to this show.

I know it has talking animals and such, but that isn't going to get me to check out the show, when the subject matter isn't something I'm interested in.

[sdp]

I keep getting this recommended like Rick & Morty and while I loved R&M I just don't want to get into another show, I already lack the time for most other shows I'm already into.

I know it's a dumb question since it's already being discussed but is it really that good?

[TigerClaw]

TMNT was the only show I ever watched, its difficult for me to watch other shows, cause they require a commitment to watch every episode.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

I do hope Diane and Mister Peanutbutter stay together. Mostly because I think a lot of their problems are within themselves as individuals.

Mister Peanutbutter hasn't gotten it to his head that Diane doesn't like grand gestures and Diane is uncomfortable with Mister Peanutbutter's attempts to go all out for her. It seems like the one time they were both at the same level as one another was the "Brap Brap Pew Pew" episode - especially on Mister Peanutbutter's part.

Spoiler:

It's more than that, though. They both want very different things out of life and as much as they've tried they can't really seem to make it work. Mr. Peanutbutter himself admits in season two that he's an "old dog" and that he's not going to change, which is unfortunate because he really needs to. He flits from thing to thing in desperation to avoid the sad or depressing aspects of life, but that leads to him essentially ignoring his wife for long periods of time. Season four was just the worst example of it, but it's been happening the entire show and Bojack Horseman is the kind that does things for a reason. He also has a tendency to make a lot of their arguments about him or how he feels about things.

More than that, his way of living is kind of no way to live. Just trying to forget the bad things. There's a speech near the end of season one where he confides in Todd that he has nightmares about breaking up with Diane and that he ends up okay with it, even relieved, and just moves on and forgets her. Which, in a way, is what he's done with Katrina and Jessica Biel. The way he interacts with them in season four, it's like he never shared a life with them at one point or anything, they're like people he works with who he happened to be married to at one point.

Not that Diane doesn't have her issues, but it was a little weird how few people seemed to catch all the hints that the last couple scenes of season four were almost inevitable. It's also oddly refreshing, in a way. Most shows would have these deep fissures that threaten a marriage, but it pulls back near the brink and they go on like everything is fine. The two did it in the earlier seasons. Hell, Simpsons was still milking that every other season last time I saw it. Few go through with it. We'll see if Bojack does. They could still try and work it out, but it would require a lot of effort and quite possibly just break down again.

I can't watch a show that's about depression, cause that is depressing in itself for me, which is why I prefer watching shows that are more fun and full of life, I know Depression is a serious problem, but I never experience such things myself, so I don't know what its like, which is why I can't relate to this show.

It kind of helps make it easy to understand, but hey, if it's not your bag, it's not your bag. Not gonna force you to watch it or anything. Just saying, I felt the same way, ended up watching it at a friends insistence it was top shelf, but not only found it not as depressing as I feared, it's one of my favorite shows now.

I know it's a dumb question since it's already being discussed but is it really that good?

Yes. Even if you just like shows that pay off even minor things. There are small plot points and jokes that can come up or be called back to even in season four. It feels like a show that doesn't forget anything, to the point where, when you go back through it now, you see things pointing to a revelation that comes up later, suggesting they really planned a lot of things ahead of time.

People at the time - and even today - said the first half of season one is shaky but it quickly becomes much watch television a third to half of the way through the season. I still don't know what they're talking about. It was great from episode one. Bojack vs The Troops - the second or third episode, I believe - is still a favorite of mine. It might just be because season one doesn't really start getting into the heart of the show or its themes in any depth until, like, episode five of the first season.

Definitely watch it. There are four seasons right now and each has twelve half hour episodes. As far as TV shows go, it's kind of a light commitment.

[Utrommaniac]

When Ceres visited me for a week, we actually ended up watching all of BoJack instead of Stranger Things - even though the latter show is more her cup of tea. Couldn't even finish the first season because she got burned out. Given the option between the two, she went with this instead.

We determined that it was because BoJack episodes are half the length of a Stranger Things episode and each of those episodes were far less of a slog to get through plot points.



I realized later we forgot to watch the Christmas special, which was quite a lot of fun. Even if it was just 90% Horsin' Around and 10% BoJack and Todd talking over it. It's one of the more interesting ones and it was nice to actually see a (mostly) full Horsin' Around episode.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I decided to give it a try based on THIS thread, and I'm loving it. Season 2 and counting...

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I decided to give it a try based on THIS thread, and I'm loving it. Season 2 and counting...

Also check out F is for Family

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Also check out F is for Family

I've seen enough Bill Burr already to last me the rest of my life.