TMNT Macro-Series: Raphael Preview and Discussion

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Igglet

I think that has to do with the Turtles being... well, the Turtles. Bishop mentions that they seem to be special for some reason.

Which we can assume is either QNA-related (Krang's involvement) or reincarnation-related. Or both.

Originally Posted by Igglet

I found Mikey being stupidly naive to be one of the best parts of the issue and it absolutely nailed his character. Mikey's SUPPOSED to be stupidly naive. The plot didn't treat it as him making the correct choice or whatever because it was apparent that he had no idea what he was doing and that the entire thing was doomed to fail from the start. He's naive, childish but always out to do the right thing. The issue just nailed his characterization for me and every moment was so fun, I swear I was giggling like a 6 year old as I was reading through it.

Eh, I was okay with Mikey being naive many issues ago, but I really wish he'd grow up a little. It's unrealistic to me that he could be SO naive still. It works, but it's a minor irritant to me. Nothing as bad as it's been in previous Splinter/Mikey conflict issues, though.

Originally Posted by Igglet

I think that you pretty much nailed my thoughts about the Donnie issue. It didn't really have anything that blew me away and the plot itself just felt like a complete side-story but the character interactions carried it all and made it one of the best issues of IDW TMNT in my opinion, the level of quality was consistently top notch.

Yeah, of the four character issues, Donnie's had the least magnitude to it. Leo didn't fight Karai and Koya, Mikey argued with Splinter, Raph went PG-rated berserk against Bishop... and Donnie had Metalhead and Grumpy Harold. Not the same level of existential threat. But deeply compelling nonetheless!

Originally Posted by Igglet

I've talked about why I don't like the Leo Macro a couple of times already so I'm not gonna rant about that again so I don't sound like an ass again

I don't remember your thoughts at all... gonna have to go dig that thread up again.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

So for those of you who dislike Kevin's dialogue, how do you feel about Tom Waltz's dialogue for the main series?

I'm in no way contending that Kevin is better than Tom at writing. Like I said, I understand the complaints regarding Kevin's dialogue.

That said, I much prefer Kevin's dialogue because while it's often basic/simple, it has a charm to it! Whereas, I'm guessing many prefer Tom's dialogue, and all due respect to the man (I enjoy his concept/plot ideas), I find it much harder to get through the dialogue than with Kevin. It just lacks any sort of personality or charm to me.

Strictly talking dialogue here. I wouldn't leave it up to Kevin to write/plot the entire series over Tom. And for the record, I think they're both talented dudes.

Ugh, man. UGH UGH UGH. I cannot comprehend how you like Kevin's dialogue but not Tom's. I've never had a problem with Tom's dialogue. Each character has a different voice, his Splinter is great, and the villains are always well done, too. I love it. But hey, to each their own!

Now, I have issues with pacing and "written-for-trade" stuff, but that's not a dialogue issue...

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Ugh, man. UGH UGH UGH. I cannot comprehend how you like Kevin's dialogue but not Tom's. I've never had a problem with Tom's dialogue. Each character has a different voice, his Splinter is great, and the villains are always well done, too. I love it. But hey, to each their own!

Now, I have issues with pacing and "written-for-trade" stuff, but that's not a dialogue issue...

I'll have to re-read some issues so I can better articulate my position.

It may have something to do with how brisk Kevin's dialogue typically is, compared to Tom's.
Often, IDW TMNT is filled with bubbles of dialogue, but I don't really "get anything" out of it. Also, there is a lot of exposition.
Props to Tom for trying to build distinct voices for characters like Professor Honeycut or Chet, but it's often overdone or just downright silly in a bad way. It feels forced, as opposed to natural or effortless.

Whereas, at least with Kevin's dialogue, I'm chuckling to myself as I breeze through the book. The dialogue isn't as detailed or expansive, but it offers me something digestible and enjoyable.

Like you said, to each their own, but it sure is fun to discuss.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Which we can assume is either QNA-related (Krang's involvement) or reincarnation-related. Or both.



Eh, I was okay with Mikey being naive many issues ago, but I really wish he'd grow up a little. It's unrealistic to me that he could be SO naive still. It works, but it's a minor irritant to me. Nothing as bad as it's been in previous Splinter/Mikey conflict issues, though.



Yeah, of the four character issues, Donnie's had the least magnitude to it. Leo didn't fight Karai and Koya, Mikey argued with Splinter, Raph went PG-rated berserk against Bishop... and Donnie had Metalhead and Grumpy Harold. Not the same level of existential threat. But deeply compelling nonetheless!



I don't remember your thoughts at all... gonna have to go dig that thread up again.

Yeah, I agree with everything you said there except for the part about Mikey, him being so naive and nice is genuinely one of the main reasons why he's my favorite Turtle in the IDW run. In most versions, he's just the comedic relief, honestly. Here, though, he is always pushing to do the right thing no matter what happens, and that trait serves as both his biggest strength, as he's sort of the emotional core of this run and is always able to push the Turtles towards doing what's morally right, and his biggest weakness because sometimes it leads to him trying to do the impossible. It just makes his character so much more enjoyable in my eyes. I wonder what Slash's death will do to him, though.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I'll have to re-read some issues so I can better articulate my position.

It may have something to do with how brisk Kevin's dialogue typically is, compared to Tom's.
Often, IDW TMNT is filled with bubbles of dialogue, but I don't really "get anything" out of it. Also, there is a lot of exposition.
Props to Tom for trying to build distinct voices for characters like Professor Honeycut or Chet, but it's often overdone or just downright silly in a bad way. It feels forced, as opposed to natural or effortless.

Whereas, at least with Kevin's dialogue, I'm chuckling to myself as I breeze through the book. The dialogue isn't as detailed or expansive, but it offers me something digestible and enjoyable.

Like you said, to each their own, but it sure is fun to discuss.

The only time I hate Tom's dialogue is the FCBD issues, but that's not Tom, that's the nature of the business. "Free issue to generate new business and grab new readers... so STUFF THAT PUPPY FULLA EXPOSITION!"

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I'll have to re-read some issues so I can better articulate my position.

It may have something to do with how brisk Kevin's dialogue typically is, compared to Tom's.
Often, IDW TMNT is filled with bubbles of dialogue, but I don't really "get anything" out of it. Also, there is a lot of exposition.
Props to Tom for trying to build distinct voices for characters like Professor Honeycut or Chet, but it's often overdone or just downright silly in a bad way. It feels forced, as opposed to natural or effortless.

Whereas, at least with Kevin's dialogue, I'm chuckling to myself as I breeze through the book. The dialogue isn't as detailed or expansive, but it offers me something digestible and enjoyable.

Like you said, to each their own, but it sure is fun to discuss.

I have to disagree there. I don't particularly mind Eastman's dialogue but I much prefer Tom's. It all feels very natural to me, every character sounds different and it never feels weird, it's all really organic and natural to me. Eastman, on the other hand, makes every character sound exactly the same. Or, more specifically, every character sounds like Raph or Casey. As I said, I think it actually works REALLY well with the two of them but the rest of the cast? Ehhhh, not so much.

[Cloudrunner]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

Oh, I definitely take responsibility for cute fluffy Alopex. Although I always draw Alopex as taller than the Turtles, Mateus is the one who later made her short and wee! And he and other artists took cues from me, nobody forced them, but yeah I got the ball rolling on Cute Alopex for sure.

I never had a problem with fluffy "cute" Alopex, art-wise. I think that fits her look as a fox more than the viscous monster she was in earlier issues (which made her look more like a wolf). I do, however, have an issue with how she was written in the Toad Baron arc. She was far too childish and bubbly compared to how she's written in the rest of the comic.

I understand she's just as young as the turtles and you maybe wanted to show a playful side. But I think you went too far towards Mikey when she's definitely more of a Leo or Raph. Or more specifically, she felt like the Alopex from your own comic rather than the IDW continuity.

I think the two parter with her and Raph infiltrating Null's base handled well. She's not above being playful and cracking jokes, but she's more disciplined than Raph. Which makes for a good dynamic where sometimes she's gotta smack him upside the head for being too brash.

[CyberCubed]

This was a really good issue, I think people's expectations of some Bishop fight or revelation was off, what we got was fine. Only thing I didn't really like was that Buck character retconned into Raph's backstory when we never heard about him before, but no big deal.

We got more insight into Raph's anger and his backstory and seeing him fight all the EPF agents was great. I also liked how Angel/Alopex didn't come to the rescue like it seemed, Raph got out on his own and they only caught up to him. Glad we didn't go with the cliche Angel/Alopex save the day again. Even Casey didn't really do anything, lol.

Bishop really is an evil bastard, he's definitely not going to become an ally in this series like the 4kids or Nick version. Not after he killed Slash and everything he's done. This issue also marks the "Turtles captured and experimented on by Bishop" story checkmark we were expecting for awhile, so I'm glad they got this subplot out of the way.

Another thing is all these new EPF guys, are they going to be important? There was a new scientist guy in this issue, then that other tall man Bishop was talking to when he first appeared. Dr. Shelvin strangely wasn't here when he was in the Ravenwood issues. I wonder if all these guys are just one-shots or important.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This was a really good issue, I think people's expectations of some Bishop fight or revelation was off, what we got was fine. Only thing I didn't really like was that Buck character retconned into Raph's backstory when we never heard about him before, but no big deal.

We got more insight into Raph's anger and his backstory and seeing him fight all the EPF agents was great. I also liked how Angel/Alopex didn't come to the rescue like it seemed, Raph got out on his own and they only caught up to him. Glad we didn't go with the cliche Angel/Alopex save the day again. Even Casey didn't really do anything, lol.

Bishop really is an evil bastard, he's definitely not going to become an ally in this series like the 4kids or Nick version. Not after he killed Slash and everything he's done. This issue also marks the "Turtles captured and experimented on by Bishop" story checkmark we were expecting for awhile, so I'm glad they got this subplot out of the way.

Another thing is all these new EPF guys, are they going to be important? There was a new scientist guy in this issue, then that other tall man Bishop was talking to when he first appeared. Dr. Shelvin strangely wasn't here when he was in the Ravenwood issues. I wonder if all these guys are just one-shots or important.

I don't think Buck was retconned into his backstory. That part of Raph's history was an absolute blank slate. We just got more info.

And yeah, I do agree with everything you said tbh, though I doubt any of these new characters will be important.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Bishop really is an evil bastard, he's definitely not going to become an ally in this series like the 4kids or Nick version. Not after he killed Slash and everything he's done. This issue also marks the "Turtles captured and experimented on by Bishop" story checkmark we were expecting for awhile, so I'm glad they got this subplot out of the way.

Another thing is all these new EPF guys, are they going to be important? There was a new scientist guy in this issue, then that other tall man Bishop was talking to when he first appeared. Dr. Shelvin strangely wasn't here when he was in the Ravenwood issues. I wonder if all these guys are just one-shots or important.

I wanted the "Turtles captured by Bishop" to be a much bigger story arc. But then, I guess that's what the Slash story arc was... just the other (bigger) Turtle, with a much worse outcome.

And I'd assume only Ravenwood and (obviously) Bishop are important. Shevlin and this new dude are just second-tier. We'll keep seeing them, but nobody really cares about them. They're just down the food chain, keeping the evil wheels turning.

[TomWaltz]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

So for those of you who dislike Kevin's dialogue, how do you feel about Tom Waltz's dialogue for the main series?

I'm in no way contending that Kevin is better than Tom at writing. Like I said, I understand the complaints regarding Kevin's dialogue.

That said, I much prefer Kevin's dialogue because while it's often basic/simple, it has a charm to it! Whereas, I'm guessing many prefer Tom's dialogue, and all due respect to the man (I enjoy his concept/plot ideas), I find it much harder to get through the dialogue than with Kevin. It just lacks any sort of personality or charm to me.

Strictly talking dialogue here. I wouldn't leave it up to Kevin to write/plot the entire series over Tom. And for the record, I think they're both talented dudes.

Waltz is a hack!

And his hairline is receding, so he's a half-bald hack to boot!



Talk soon...

Tom W.

[martinitolove]

Didn't like this issue, but I don't need to

I hope phase two will be EPF creating Tokka!!! Just mix some Slash' DNA with Raph's!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by martinitolove

Didn't like this issue, but I don't need to

I hope phase two will be EPF creating Tokka!!! Just mix some Slash' DNA with Raph's!

I'd be down for that. We are all down one mutant snapping turtle, and IDW needs to bring in Tokka and Rahzar at some point (I'd be happy with appearances in the next Bebop & Rocksteady mini-series, personally!)...

[Utrommaniac]

I'm more into the idea of the idea of a Mata Mata type for a new mutant turtle (antagonist)

With that big ol' weird head.

#LetRaphBeAFarmer

[neatoman]

That reminded me, ain't it weird that nobody has tried to do a TMNT story with the World Turtle?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

I'm more into the idea of the idea of a Mata Mata type for a new mutant turtle (antagonist)

Spoiler:

https://www.angelfishaquatics.co.uk/...ta--2839-p.jpg

With that big ol' weird head.

Oooooooooooooooh, I like that idea. Make Tokka a mata-mata!

[CyberCubed]

Also interesting they had Casey go to a new pizza place instead of going where Woody is. The new pizza girl looked oddly a lot like April...why.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Also interesting they had Casey go to a new pizza place instead of going where Woody is. The new pizza girl looked oddly a lot like April...why.

Maybe Woody had a day off?

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by TomWaltz

Waltz is a hack!

And his hairline is receding, so he's a half-bald hack to boot!



Talk soon...

Tom W.

Mine is receding as well

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Also interesting they had Casey go to a new pizza place instead of going where Woody is.

New York City is big. It was probably closer to Central Park than Rupert's is. Plus it gave us a sweet Keno name-drop.

Spoiler:

Another random name drop... on the two-page spread, check out the shoulder of the EPF goon grabbing Raph's head