Please Read! Do not support HR669!!

[Buslady]

Call, write, spread the word!

Some idiots want to ban all non-native species as pets that includes most mammals, birds, reptiles & amphibians!

No more budgies, ball pythons, hamsters, chinchillas! No more redfoot tortoises, russian tortoises, and greeks would be illegal to breed them, take them cross state lines, and no pet store would be allowed to carry them. No more canaries...macaws...African Greys...cockatiels...amphibians...you like those cute little african clawed frogs? Bye bye to them too.

This WILL effect your ability to buy and keep these common pets.

http://www.nohr669.com/

go to this site, see what you can do about it.

[Raph's Girl]

Wow.. that would kill the Aquarium industry...

[Candy Kappa]

this is already happened in Norway with reptiles and birds.
a year ago they tightened the laws about reptile keeping.
the old law said it was illegal to import(smuggle) reptiles, and sell them in stores, but it was legal to sell them private or if a zoo had too many and wanted to sell them.
now it illegal to own reptiles, and if the authority knows that you own a reptile, they can come with the police and take the reptiles away to be killed.

a guy in the animal care department (or what ever its called in english) came out in the news paper about the ways they put the animals to "sleep" by torture.

but I think animals that are already in the country before the law change are legal to keep, so my turtles are safe for now.

but due to a lot of complaints they are gonna open up for a few reptiles as pets

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Buslady

Call, write, spread the word!

Some idiots want to ban all non-native species as pets that includes most mammals, birds, reptiles & amphibians!

No more budgies, ball pythons, hamsters, chinchillas! No more redfoot tortoises, russian tortoises, and greeks would be illegal to breed them, take them cross state lines, and no pet store would be allowed to carry them. No more canaries...macaws...African Greys...cockatiels...amphibians...you like those cute little african clawed frogs? Bye bye to them too.

This WILL effect your ability to buy and keep these common pets.

http://www.nohr669.com/

go to this site, see what you can do about it.

Such animals shouldn't be kept as pets at all, to begin with. Their lives belong to the wilds.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Buslady

...you like those cute little african clawed frogs?

No, not really.

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

Wow.. that would kill the Aquarium industry...

Don't aquariums have special permits? I mean, I don't see many people owning seals and whales and sh*t.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by Mino

Such animals shouldn't be kept as pets at all, to begin with. Their lives belong to the wilds.

We belong to the wild as well I guess, humans aren't native to the USA either. Native Americans traveled over the land bridge eons ago. So I guess we should ban ourselves. This law is a ridiculous as my statement.
Er we're talking Hamsters...a clearly domesticated small mammal commonly kept as a pet. You gonna throw a ham out in the wild where he wouldn't know where to get food? Rats and Mice aren't native either. Dogs and cats, imported years ago...not native, although they're exempt which doesn't make sense. There are how many millions of each in shelters?

Many of these animals are therapy pets as well, gives folks a reason to live by lavishing their critters with care.

Big cats, and canids....those shouldn't be kept or crossbred...that I agree with, but this is focusing on common pets like hams, budgies, chinchis, turtles, lizards, snakes...virtually every fish species we keep aren't native. Guppies? Trinidad. Bettas, Thailand...plecostomus is also Thailand I think. African butterfly fish, thats obvious. Chichlids are afican and south/central america. Goldfish aren't even native...

Just about all of these common pet animals ARE domesticated cos they're bred like crazy in captivity, most of these critters wouldn't be able to survive in the wild. For example- A beardie dragon couldn't live in South Florida, they're hot dry climate animals.

I know there was someone who breeds Leopard geckos here, it'd be illegal for her to continue to do this.

It'll destroy lives, hobbies, businesses, all pet stores, big and little would crash, jobs lost and the way it is out there, people NEED jobs.

These wankers are worried about people dumping these critters, hell, they ought to be worrying about people dumping red ear sliders(a native species) cos they're a dime a dozen in chinatown! thats what destroys natural areas.

They won't be coming in taking pets, those will be grandfathered in. But I couldn't breed Red if I wanted to when s/he grew up in 10 years...If I moved from Ca, I couldn't take him with me, or my two kids Steve & Herbie, Spot or Cody. All captive bred, and hatched turtles, wouldn't know a thing about the wilds, couldn't survive in this climate.

This is a violation of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...this is happiness of a lot of folks who are responsible pet keepers.

Cure - heh some folks like those little frogs. I dont, pain in the butt to care for...


Anyways...this country is turning into a "big brother" government, cant do this, can't do that...freaking government needs to get their nose out of people's lives, and out of the animal keeping hobbies.

[Peanut]

I can see some of the stuff MAYBE, but f*cking hamsters and budgies and stuff like that? That's just DUMB! Do these fat-cat assholes have nothing better to do all day than come up with junk like this?

Originally Posted by Cure

Don't aquariums have special permits? I mean, I don't see many people owning seals and whales and sh*t.

Considering the aquarium industry probably isn't pertaining to SEA WORLD, that doesn't make much sense. I'm guessing she's talking about aquarium stores and such.

Either way, this law is so backwards and retarded, I don't see it getting passed, but who knows. CRAZY WORLD IMIRITE!?

[Sewer Bull]

I've googled out his infamous act.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-669 - you can get to the summary and the full text (still at works) from that side.

Apparently, this bill's main purpose is:

To prevent the introduction and establishment of nonnative wildlife species that negatively impact the economy, environment, or other animal species' or human health, and for other purposes.

Fancy how the guy in the video quotes the statement wholly, but then he omits the second part and starts to bitch over the Big Man trying to ban cute pets, like hamsters.

But let's carry on. Let's actually read the sole act, instead of listening to some guy over the Internet.

1/26/2009--Introduced.
Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act - Requires the Secretary of the Interior to promulgate regulations establishing a process for assessing the risk of all nonnative wildlife species proposed for importation into the United States, other than those included in a list of approved species issued under this Act.

So... there might be a list of the allowed species? Awesome! Let's read some excerpts from the full text of the proposed bill:

(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall include in the preliminary list under this section nonnative wildlife species that the Secretary finds, consistent with the factors described in section 3(b) and based on scientific and commercial information that is provided in a proposal under paragraph (2) or otherwise available to the Secretary--

(A) are not harmful to the United States’ economy, the environment, or other animal species’ or human health; or
(B) may be harmful to the United States’ economy, the environment, or other animal species’ or human health, but already are so widespread in the United States that it is clear to the Secretary that any import prohibitions or restrictions would have no practical utility for the United States.

Sooo.... maybe hamsters and turtles will be saved, since they are "so widespread in the US"?

Sets forth factors that must be considered, including the identity of the organism to the species level, the native range of the species, whether the species has caused harm to the economy, the environment, or other animal species or human health in similar ecosystems, and the likelihood of establishment or spread of the species in the United States.

So... actually nothing has been decided yet on what should be banned, hey?

Also, there was that Michigan guy in the video, who cried over the inability of having a class full of exciting animals. But there's still hope for him!

Authorizes the Secretary to issue permits authorizing otherwise prohibited importation for scientific research, for medical, accredited zoological or aquarium display purposes, or for educational purposes that are specifically reviewed, approved, and verified by the Secretary if the Secretary finds that there has been a proper showing by the permittee of responsibility for the specimen and continued protection of the public interest and health.

To sum up - that video and the whole noHR669 meme is just hysteria-provoking bullsh*t, probably inspired by some guys who make a living out of importing the rare and dangerous species to the U.S.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by Mino

Sooo.... maybe hamsters and turtles will be saved, since they are "so widespread in the US"?

By that rational, I wonder if they would then legalize some species that are illegal in some territories but ARE widespread nevertheless such as ferrets (in California and Hawaii), skunks, and fennec foxes.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Ah, Buslady, I fear Mino has outresearched you-meaning he looked at the upcoming law more closely than you. Which means it is not a stupid law but a smart one, at least overall.

As for skunks, they are legal as pets in a few states such as Florida and Indiana. But they are extremely difficult to take care of compared to say cats and dogs. Which is not to say certain animals cannot be pets, but the owners should know exactly what they are doing.

[Buslady]

I read what I read, they want to ban pets.


I dont have time but I'll look at it again, but the bottom line is yes they want to ban common household pets.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Ah, Buslady, I fear Mino has outresearched you-meaning he looked at the upcoming law more closely than you. Which means it is not a stupid law but a smart one, at least overall.

As for skunks, they are legal as pets in a few states such as Florida and Indiana. But they are extremely difficult to take care of compared to say cats and dogs. Which is not to say certain animals cannot be pets, but the owners should know exactly what they are doing.

Skunks are no more difficult to take care of than a ferret (They are both weasels), which are legal in 48 states.

[Buslady]

ferrets aren't native, those legal ferrets will be grandfathered in but owners cant breed them or take them across borders...once they're gone, that's it.

more reading
http://turtleforum.com/images/HR669_3_31_09.pdf

i doubt this thing will actually pass, there's too much money at stake...the big players like petsmart & petco have lots to lose.

(D) does not include any cat (Felis catus), cattle or oxen (Bos taurus), chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus), dog (Canis lupus familiaris), donkey or ass (Equus asinus), domesticated members of the family Anatidae (geese), duck (domesticated Anas spp.), goat (Capra aegagrus hircus), goldfish (Carassius auratus auratus), horse (Equus caballus), llama (Lama glama), mule or hinny (Equus caballus x E. asinus), pig or hog (Sus scrofa domestica), domesticated varieties of rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus), or sheep (Ovis aries), or any other species or variety of species that is determined by the Secretary to be common and clearly domesticated.

So then do we get to keep horses in the back yard? Goats? Mules?

this part is good at least:
f) Animals Owned Lawfully Prior to Prohibition of Importation- This Act and regulations issued under this Act shall not interfere with the ability of any person to possess an individual animal of any species if such individual animal was legally owned by the person before the risk assessment is begun pursuant to subsection (e)(3), even if such species is later prohibited from being imported under the regulations issued under this Act.

grandfathered in basically.

(2) transport between any State by any means whatsoever any nonnative wildlife species that is not included in the list of approved species issued under section 4;

this is unfair - those who want to move from one state to another simply can't. They can't give away their unapproved pets, they can't cross lines, they can't do anything without turning their animals over or just killing them off.
I couldn't take Red, Steve, Cody, Herbie across lines but I can take Spot since she's native. This is retarded. You trap people doing this. All they can do is turn over their animals which will probably murdered.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by Buslady

I couldn't take Red, Steve, Cody, Herbie across lines but I can take Spot since she's native. This is retarded. You trap people doing this. All they can do is turn over their animals which will probably murdered.

Or continue to keep their questionable exotic pets with a degree of discretion... which is what most of them do now anyway.

[ThirdMarioBro]

(D) does not include any cat (Felis catus), cattle or oxen (Bos taurus), chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus), dog (Canis lupus familiaris), donkey or ass (Equus asinus), domesticated members of the family Anatidae (geese), duck (domesticated Anas spp.), goat (Capra aegagrus hircus), goldfish (Carassius auratus auratus), horse (Equus caballus), llama (Lama glama), mule or hinny (Equus caballus x E. asinus), pig or hog (Sus scrofa domestica), domesticated varieties of rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus), or sheep (Ovis aries), or any other species or variety of species that is determined by the Secretary to be common and clearly domesticated.

Yeah, basically anything that is considered "show worthy", "mainstream" or edible. Fu*king bastards.

This is the most goddamned crazy thing I've heard in a long time. And I can see those crazy assholes in congress passing it too. It's not like they're doing anything else useful. I've got a Red Eared slider, and a Bearded Dragon. I have to take them with me three times a year out of state when I take Dad on his hunting trips. I can't leave them at home because they would die, and I don't have anyone in the state who I would trust in my home unattended to take care of them. This is ****ing ********. Smuggling wouldn't be an option much longer because I keep hearing rumors that Oklahoma wants to build boarder checkpoints. They probably would have already if the economy hadn't died. Congress is filled with a barrage of c***suckers.

I swear, my relationship with this ****ing nation grows thinner by the month.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Yeah, basically anything that is considered "show worthy", "mainstream" or edible. Fu*king bastards.

This is the most goddamned crazy thing I've heard in a long time. And I can see those crazy assholes in congress passing it too. It's not like they're doing anything else useful. I've got a Red Eared slider, and a Bearded Dragon. I have to take them with me three times a year out of state when I take Dad on his hunting trips. I can't leave them at home because they would die, and I don't have anyone in the state who I would trust in my home unattended to take care of them. This is ****ing ********. Smuggling wouldn't be an option much longer because I keep hearing rumors that Oklahoma wants to build boarder checkpoints. They probably would have already if the economy hadn't died. Congress is filled with a barrage of c***suckers.

I swear, my relationship with this ****ing nation grows thinner by the month.

Yeah you can take your Red ear fine, they're native but the Beardie wuold have to stay. Who can you trust to check on him and not over feed him?

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

Or continue to keep their questionable exotic pets with a degree of discretion... which is what most of them do now anyway.

Most of this i feel is targeting the more common animals...turtles and torts aren't "questionable"...they're not vicious man eating beasts.

Yeah they do, that dumb broad who had the chimp who practically slaughtered that lady friend of hers. I felt sorry for both the chimp and the lady he attacked.

[Andrew NDB]

It just pisses me off that tax dollars are being spent bickering about something like this when there's so much else that should be worried about.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Yeah, the whole goddamn nation is bankrupt and on the brink of collapse, and Congress is too busy taking some people's only comfort away, aside from bringing about the collapse of the damned pet industry. Create jobs my ass. Mother****ers. Every one of them is a conniving, self serving power monger on their own agenda. I support our president, but I wouldn't blink an eye if every single person in congress was hit by a bus tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Buslady

but the Beardie wuold have to stay. Who can you trust to check on him and not over feed him?

Nobody. The only aunt I have in the area who "could" do the job is so scared of him, she'd probably squash him and tell us she did us a favor. Either the lizard would have to go, or I'd be permanently stuck in my state.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It just pisses me off that tax dollars are being spent bickering about something like this when there's so much else that should be worried about.

exactly they have more pressing issues than peoples pets it's rediculous

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Buslady

exactly they have more pressing issues than peoples pets it's rediculous

And what has been so much in the news media lately? What sort of dog the Obamas were going to be getting! Sheesh.