Super 7 thundertank... maybe a party wagon is next???

[ls1z28]

Saw the awesome looking thundertank pic yesterday, along with the not so awesome price tag. This gives me hopes that maybe they’ll do a party wagon at some point. But boy, is it going to be expensive.....

[Dask]

Super 7's $450 Thundertank may actually determine whether we will get a Cat's Lair (perhaps, $700-900) or the Turtles Party Wagon.

I would expect the Super 7 Party Wagon to cost between $300-450

alternatively,

NECA is also making a a Party Wagon (I would expect it to be a NECA store exclusive for $150-300)

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Dask

Super 7's $450 Thundertank may actually determine whether we will get a Cat's Lair (perhaps, $700-900) or the Turtles Party Wagon.

I would expect the Super 7 Party Wagon to cost between $300-450

alternatively,

NECA is also making a a Party Wagon (I would expect it to be a NECA store exclusive for $150-300)

A Cat's Lair will be $1200-$1400 Easily. All this stuff is over priced

[ls1z28]

Originally Posted by Dask

Super 7's $450 Thundertank may actually determine whether we will get a Cat's Lair (perhaps, $700-900) or the Turtles Party Wagon.

I would expect the Super 7 Party Wagon to cost between $300-450

alternatively,

NECA is also making a a Party Wagon (I would expect it to be a NECA store exclusive for $150-300)

Really? I didn’t know Neca was making one... any pics out there yet?

[Dask]

Originally Posted by ls1z28

Really? I didn’t know Neca was making one... any pics out there yet?

It's confirmed and completed. Check out the interview (time stamp at 51:35):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqOIq2Uc-3I

[Ace Conrad]

I would imagine that a S7 Party Wagon would look something like this (just at a 1/10th scale):


It makes me wonder if S7 would need to contact VW for any licensing issues since the vintage Playmates Party Wagon looks the most like a VW bus (as opposed to the cartoon version).

[Leo656]

A lot of fans are pissed about the back seat of the Thundertank prototype being too small to actually fit any figures in and still be able to close the roof, and are hoping that (and many other errors in the prototype, including the wrong Thundercats logo) are fixed for the final product.

But based on dimensions and the general lack of "gimmicks" on the 'Tank that a Party Wagon is sure to have included, if Super 7 does do one and you can comfortably fit in at least four figures plus have similar weapons or gimmicks to the original, you're looking at about $600, easy. Maybe even more. The 'Tank is already a beast but the Van would be even bigger.

I mean you just have to figure. The 'Tank is low to the ground with minimal moving parts and might only fit about three figures, maybe only two if you want to close the roof (we'll see if the final version fixes this). The Turtle Van would be much taller by comparison and have a lot more moving parts.

I do think they'll probably do one, but I expect people to pitch a fit when they see the actual price tag. No WAY it's gonna be any cheaper than the 'Tank, if anything it'll cost way, way more.

[snake]

Are people actually going to buy a $450 Thundercats vehicle? The property is already niche as all hell.

[Leo656]

Yes, several. You just don't travel in the right circles to know, it seems. Plenty of people are already talking about pre-ordering it as soon as possible.

The entire raison d'etre of these things is that they're niche. That's why they're boutique made-to-order items and not being mass-produced.

Same reason why Super 7 made an $800 Snake Mountain that sold out immediately and is going for $1400 on the secondary market.

"Niche" is not the same thing as "Nobody cares". And frankly, I honestly think more people are gonna buy the $450+ Thundertank than would honestly buy the inevitable $700 Party Wagon. TMNT has a bigger fanbase than MOTU or Thundercats but they're arguably not as passionate. They also tend to have much lower-income jobs; not throwing shade just stating a fact. The Thundercats and MOTU fanbases skew older and are full of doctors, lawyers, etc. Tons of the most vocal TMNT fans are on public assistance or live with their parents or whatever. Again, not being mean, but I've been here a while, you notice things.

I mean if NECA announced tomorrow that they were going to produce a full-scale TMNT Sewer Lair playset, but it was gonna cost $800-1000, how many people here would honestly buy one? A few, sure, but how many REALLY? Meanwhile both the MOTU Classics Grayskull and the Super 7 Snake Mountain sold out their preorders immediately and people still think nothing about paying well over a grand for them on the secondary market. Somebody buys one one and shows it off on FB almost every day. These are the same people who think nothing of dropping $500 on a MOTU Classics Fisto, or even $200 on a Man-At-Arms. Maybe they do it through gritted teeth, but they do it, every singe day.

Just different fanbases, different levels of passion. "Niche" is not the same as "Nobody cares". Don't get me wrong, nobody is thrilled about the price of the Thundertank, but they're not annoyed about that, not in and of itself. They're not happy that the prototype has a bunch of mistakes - the wrong logo being used, the "jaw" opening from the top instead of the bottom, tank treads being too small/narrow, and the fact that the backseat might not properly fit any figures in it. But plenty of people are openly declaring that they'd absolutely pay that price in a heartbeat IF they fix these problems. Nobody's really griping too much about the sticker shock, only the fact that for that price they expect a better product than what the prototype suggests.

I, personally, don't plan to grab it. Much more of a MOTU fan than a Thundercats one, and so far I've only picked up Lion-O and pre-ordered Cheetara from this line, and there's a ton of MOTU Classics stuff I missed that I'd rather spend that money on. But as for "Is anyone going to buy that?", the answer is "Yes, Absolutely." I'd definitely be more inclined towards it IF I wasn't missing so much MOTU stuff, and the prototype was better. But plenty of people are looking forward to it, they're just hoping the prototype gets some serious revisions before the final product drops.

They definitely lost a few people who were on the fence with that prototype. BUT, those same individuals are saying that they'll jump right back on it if the final version gets fixed. We'll have to see how that goes.

[italianice388]

Originally Posted by Leo656

TMNT has a bigger fanbase than MOTU or Thundercats but they're arguably not as passionate. They also tend to have much lower-income jobs; not throwing shade just stating a fact. The Thundercats and MOTU fanbases skew older and are full of doctors, lawyers, etc. Tons of the most vocal TMNT fans are on public assistance or live with their parents or whatever. Again, not being mean, but I've been here a while, you notice things.

All respect to you man, but you have no way of knowing this at all. This is literally impossible to verify, and it makes little sense. The few people you've spoken with anecdotally in no way represent an entire demographic of people.

[italianice388]

My bet, Super7 goes for the technodrome before the party wagon.

A.) They know NECA is already working on a wagon.
B.) They do what they think is cool first, and what they think will sell best second. I have a feeling Brian would find the technodrome cooler–but just a guess.

[Leo656]

- The most "hardcore" TMNT fans in the entire world are Here on this specific forum.
- I've been here for almost 20 years.
- I pay very close attention to what these people say.

Sure, I speak in broad, general terms, but nothing I've said is altogether False.

To be blunt, the "TMNT fandom" outside of this forum, if social media is to be believed, are almost nothing but drooling imbeciles. At best, they're the kind of people who watched the original cartoon as kids, own a few toys, and haven't thought about the brand in 25+ years. Personally, I don't really count them as "fans", but even if they are, the type of "fan" who ignored the franchise entirely after 1993 most likely aren't going to drop $700 on a Party Wagon when it comes out.

No, the majority of the ones who WILL do that, or would LIKE to do that, are the people on this forum. And if you actually pay attention, a lot of the people on this forum aren't all doing so incredibly great. Some are doing very well, others are Just Getting By. Lots of reasons for this, and I shame no one for whatever their life situation is. I'm simply pointing out Things I Know To Be True.

A very large number of the more vocal and active people on this forum live with their family for one reason or other. I do, too, so I'm not pointing this out to be nasty or anything. I'm just saying, it's rather common with this particular fandom, and people with that kind of life circumstances, regardless of the Why, are generally not in a position to drop half a grand or more on a single toy.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure that WHEN Super 7 eventually announces the Party Wagon, and it costs about $600 or more, you'll see a ton of people on this forum saying "Man, why can't it cost like, $100? I want one!" regardless of how little economic sense that would make, but very few people will actually go ahead and buy one. Some definitely will, but nowhere near as many as the ones who won't be able to. Most of them will be stuck on "I Wish..." That's my prediction, we'll no doubt eventually get to see if I'm wrong.

Again, yes it was a general statement, but it's also pretty much What I Know Is True from being here for so long. Sorry if that rankles you, but them's the breaks. Wasn't starting "A Thing", it was merely an observation.
-----------

My only problem with your Technodrome thesis, is that if there's any kind of scale involved then it's gonna be twice as much as the damn Thundertank, and again, who here is realistically gonna be able to buy that?

Snake Mountain was like $800 when it came out and goes for $1300+ on the secondary market... the Technodrome doesn't necessarily need to be THAT big, but it would probably be close. Just out of curiosity, I invite a Show Of Hands of everyone here in this "room" who absolutely both Can and Will pay $800-1000+ when the time comes, for this hypothetical Technodrome playset.

Again, I don't doubt they'll announce one, it's a no-brainer of an idea. How many people Right Here are gonna get it, though? I'm genuinely curious, so I'm asking now. I predict about three or four "Yes, definitely", and a whole lotta "Man, why's it gotta cost so much?" But again, if I'm wrong then let's hear it out loud.

I personally don't think the average TMNT fan, not even the "hardcores", have a spare mortgage payment laying around for a toy Technodrome. Maybe Yes, my gut says No. If these same people think that the Thundertank and Snake Mountain are outrageously priced, what are the odds they'll have the means to grab the Party Wagon or Technodrome? They won't be any cheaper. If people think they will be, they're nuts.

[italianice388]

Ah yeah, I hadn't even considered that about the technodrome's size. It would have to be absolutely gigantic to pull off accurately. Would LOVE to see that, though, just out of the sheer feat of engineering required to pull it off.

[Leo656]

Agreed! It would be a majestic thing to look upon, for sure! I'd love to see it!

...But going by how other "big ticket" items from Super7 have fared, and how they really do try and go for at least a reasonable sense of scale as much as possible - again, just LOOK at Snake Mountain! - there's no way it wouldn't cost a fortune. They'd want it to be big enough to fit more than one or two figures on it. Folded out, it would definitely be close to Snake Mountain, although I can't see them actually making it any bigger. Plus all the inevitable gimmicks and moving parts. Supposedly that's why the Thundertank costs so much, more so than the size of it; it's the size AND all the gimmick.

A Technodrome OR a Party Wagon from Super 7, in-scale (and knowing Super 7 there's no reason to expect they wouldn't be in-scale), would absolutely be expensive as hell. There's no getting around it. They'd both be way bigger and have way more gimmicks than the Thundertank. Nothing you can really do about that.

That's not to say either one is impossible; I do expect that we will see at least one or the other eventually, and maaaaybe both, possibly. Just saying, people better start saving their pennies Right Now and not keel over when they see the inevitable price tag.

[Technorover85]

Tmnt collecting is a very expensive hobby. A Turtle Van or Technodrome priced at $800 to $1000 seems par for the course.

[snake]

As much as I agree with you about demographics of the TMNT fandom that would be remotely interested in buying this stuff, there’s absolutely no reason for companies like *Super7, Hasbro, and Neca to charge the amounts they do for certain products when the costs to produce them are astronomically low in comparison. Yeah, Snake Mountain is big, but these are ultimately companies looking for a profit. They charge what they do because they know people will pay it, not because a $475 vehicle is ‘economically feasible’. Plastic is cheap as hell and has only gone down in price in recent years. Fanboyism has gone up. I don’t blame these companies for taking advantage of the easy money, not at all.

*Regarding Super7, they might actually have some troubles producing products because of their smaller status as a company that justifies the prices they charge. Still, they managed to get a goddamned Snake Mountain out. Neca? Not so much. Hasbro? They could bleed money for a thousand years and still be afloat.

[Leo656]

I do think Super 7's size (or lack thereof) as a company has a lot to do with their pricing structure on various products. Like I'm not in the room or anything, but that goes with everything I've heard. Like they manage to get big-name licenses but they're still very much "up-and-coming" as toy companies go. A couple of years ago they weren't even really in the game until they started working with Mattel on the He-Man license. But they don't have the same amount of resources Mattel does, so it figures that their stuff would be more expensive to make up the difference. Their MOTU Classics were like twice what Mattel's cost at retail, for example. Everything they do is more expensive than their brethren, and the fact that they're still rather small and new to game probably has a lot to do with that.

I do also think the fact these are mostly "made to order" rather than mass-produced items is still a factor, though. When you're printing a million of something, you generally use cheaper materials and the end result is a lot more slapdash. Versus when something is a "limited edition", regardless of if it's toys or bath towels or whatever, it's made with higher-quality materials and with a more careful eye for quality and detail. Generally-speaking. Which goes back to the conversations I've been hearing about the Thundertank, and how people don't necessarily love the idea of it being $500, but are MORE concerned about how for that price it isn't as faithful as it should be, and that all of the problems should be easily fixable. "I'll pay $500, but not for 'almost-perfect', it better be Perfect-Perfect." And I kinda get that. But I mean, nitpicks aside, even if a bigger company put it out there, at that size there's no way it would be cheap no matter what. I think a big part of why even at retail, vehicles and playsets are "dead" is because companies can't find a way to find a balance of "Cost Effective + Actual Quality" and still manage to sell enough of them to make a profit. And since you can't find a "cheap-o" retail version of these kinds of things, the "boutique" ones gain even more inherent value because "It's This, or It's Nothing." It's not like Mattel or Bandai or anyone is gonna come out and make a $50-100 Thundertank that fits 7-inch figures anytime soon, or ever.

Regardless of the variety of factors and which ones weigh more, whether people gripe about it or not plenty will still find a way to get these type of things even if they don't think the price is altogether justified.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I do think Super 7's size (or lack thereof) as a company has a lot to do with their pricing structure on various products. Like I'm not in the room or anything, but that goes with everything I've heard. Like they manage to get big-name licenses but they're still very much "up-and-coming" as toy companies go. A couple of years ago they weren't even really in the game until they started working with Mattel on the He-Man license. But they don't have the same amount of resources Mattel does, so it figures that their stuff would be more expensive to make up the difference. Their MOTU Classics were like twice what Mattel's cost at retail, for example. Everything they do is more expensive than their brethren, and the fact that they're still rather small and new to game probably has a lot to do with that.

I do also think the fact these are mostly "made to order" rather than mass-produced items is still a factor, though. When you're printing a million of something, you generally use cheaper materials and the end result is a lot more slapdash. Versus when something is a "limited edition", regardless of if it's toys or bath towels or whatever, it's made with higher-quality materials and with a more careful eye for quality and detail. Generally-speaking. Which goes back to the conversations I've been hearing about the Thundertank, and how people don't necessarily love the idea of it being $500, but are MORE concerned about how for that price it isn't as faithful as it should be, and that all of the problems should be easily fixable. "I'll pay $500, but not for 'almost-perfect', it better be Perfect-Perfect." And I kinda get that. But I mean, nitpicks aside, even if a bigger company put it out there, at that size there's no way it would be cheap no matter what. I think a big part of why even at retail, vehicles and playsets are "dead" is because companies can't find a way to find a balance of "Cost Effective + Actual Quality" and still manage to sell enough of them to make a profit. And since you can't find a "cheap-o" retail version of these kinds of things, the "boutique" ones gain even more inherent value because "It's This, or It's Nothing." It's not like Mattel or Bandai or anyone is gonna come out and make a $50-100 Thundertank that fits 7-inch figures anytime soon, or ever.

Regardless of the variety of factors and which ones weigh more, whether people gripe about it or not plenty will still find a way to get these type of things even if they don't think the price is altogether justified.

I agree with your assessments. There's definitely demand for the Thundertank and I wonder if there is some cross-over from the MOTU fanbase in terms of interest since they are both in the same universe. I recently sold an extra set of Mattel Thundercats to a person who is looking forward to purchasing the Thundertank. Personally, I was a bit hesitant in ordering the thing but I did preorder from BBTS since I don't have to worry about payments until 2022. For $450+, I would have expected all the bells and whistles, light-up electronics and roaring sounds (or at least throw in some obscure figure like Haslabs to soften the deal)

The only thing that confuses me is why don't these companies make "cheap-o" versions of vehicles (well, not cheap-o but not over-the-top boutique). They could keep the size correct scale wise but make the parts super hollow. I think if it looks aesthetically pleasing it should suffice. NECA, for example, is not making one fixed Party Wagon; they are incorporating all the features from all the episodes, a swiss army knife type of wagon. However, no one asked for it. They could have simplified the formula and just worry about making it large enough to fit the turtles and call it a day. I almost feel like all this padding is unnecessary. NECA and Super 7 are not Sideshow or Hot Toys so I don't understand why they are going for that replica approach.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Dask

I agree with your assessments. There's definitely demand for the Thundertank and I wonder if there is some cross-over from the MOTU fanbase in terms of interest since they are both in the same universe.
----
I almost feel like all this padding is unnecessary. NECA and Super 7 are not Sideshow or Hot Toys so I don't understand why they are going for that replica approach.

- Yes, quite a lot. MOTU and Thundercats had their heyday at around the exact same time and have very similar tone and subject matter so there's tons of crossover with the fanbases. The fact that the Thundercats figures are in the same style and scale as MOTU Classics is a really big deal among fans of either brand, since having both universe's characters be in-scale with each other has always been a dream.

- They're doing it because if they don't, either 1. Nobody does it, and leaves everyone asking Why Not, or 2. Eventually someone else does it, so they might as well do it now, themselves, while they have the opportunity.

Again, I don't know if you are overly familiar with the He-Man/Thundercats fanbases, but they're a bit more "sophisticated", one could even be forgiven for saying "snobbish", when it comes to stuff like this. They're incredibly demanding and will nitpick any little thing that isn't perfect, or could even just be done better. They spend more money than most on their collecting, and in return they demand high-end, near-perfect stuff. Even if someone DID make a more reasonable retail-level product at an affordable price, they'd turn their noses up at it, the way some of them are right now with the Origins line.

That's a great example, really. The new Castle Grayskull coming out at retail is about $85, it's modeled after the vintage one from 1982 with a bunch of improvements but a slightly-brighter paint job. Most people in general think it's awesome. The "hardcores", though, the ones who actually care the most about this kind of stuff? Woof. They hate it. They think it's garbage. They'll openly declare, "I don't care if it IS less than a hundred bucks. I'd gladly prefer to drop a grand on something that's 'perfect'." A lot of them wish that Mattel wasn't even doing Origins, so they could keep paying $100+ per figure and $300+ per vehicle on the 7-inch Classics line, because again, it's not about being more affordable, it's about being "Perfect". And "Perfect" is all they'll settle for.

So again, why would a company like Super 7 put out a "cheapo" retail-level variant on something when they know 1. It's not what their audience REALLY wants, and 2. That same audience will gladly pay five times the price of a retail product, so long as that product is awesome? Especially right now, when vehicles and playsets are completely "dead" at retail, and a $50-100 Thundertank wouldn't even sell at Walmart, anyway. Why not "Go Big", in that case? If you can make more money selling 1000 of a Big Thing than you would trying to sell 10,000 of a smaller, cheaper thing... why even waste the time on the "smaller" thing? That's the logic.

Again, it's just an entirely different, altogether more "hardcore" type of collecting fan. They demand more, BUT, they also altogether spend a lot more money than "casuals" do. So who do you think a company like Super 7 is going to cater to?

I mean, in theory, Playmates could do all kinds of retail-level "cheap" vehicles and stuff for TMNT, which would probably be "good enough" as far as most TMNT fans are concerned, they just don't, or at least haven't yet. But I promise you, even if they came out with one tomorrow that was exactly like the one they put out in '89 or whenever it was, a ton of people here would STILL say, "Eh, I'll just wait for the NECA one, because even though it's more expensive, objectively it's better." Everybody except the ones who literally couldn't afford it would ignore the Playmates van and wait for the NECA van. It becomes increasingly harder to settle for "Eh, Good Enough" when something "Perfect" is like, right over there.

There's a whole psychology to these things.

[ToSte]

Some folks have mentioned NECA producing a Party Wagon. Shouldn't they be working on a Turtle Van instead of a Party Wagon since that would go with NECAs toon line?