Criticisms of the New Show

[LioConvoy]

Hello Technodrome!

It's been awhile since I posted here, but I've had an account for about a decade.

I plan on doing a TMNT anniversary video on my Youtube channel, and would also like to talk about the new show in it as well. I would like to address some of the criticisms people have of it.

While I'm generally more active on Twitter, I wanted to get the consensus of a group that I know are actual fans of TMNT, and not just random pundits.

So I'd like to know what your issues are with this show (if any) so I have a clear idea! Thank you for your time.

[leighonardo]

Personally I'd say character designs aren't great, especially Splinter. New villains are all pretty garbage. Some of the humour works but most does not and there's way too much of it and the shorter 10 minute episodes make most stories feel rushed and inconsequential.

Oh and Baxter stockboy.

[PApagreg]

If you are going to make an anniversary video why only make a thread on the criticism, isn't it fair to ask the people who like this show why they enjoy it. I'm not saying talk about this show as if its the greatest thing ever but if you want to know what the fans think and get a consensus, why focus only on a one-sided argument that's doing nothing but demonizing this incarnation

[LioConvoy]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

If you are going to make an anniversary video why only make a thread on the criticism, isn't it fair to ask the people who like this show why they enjoy it. I'm not saying talk about this show as if its the greatest thing ever but if you want to know what the fans think and get a consensus, why focus only on a one-sided argument that's doing nothing but demonizing this incarnation

Because I already know the positives. And when it comes to criticisms, I’d like to address direct statements.

[The Great Saiyaman]

The Turtles themselves, there's a little too much "teenage" and not nearly enough "Ninja"

- Raphael, stereotypical dumb jock.
Makes a pile of bricks look smart. Too easily distracted from what he has to do on a mission and rather makes videos of pigeons eating Pizza to put them online. He also (as do the others for that matter) has NO respect for other's property. Taking the wheels off of Donnie's Turtle tank so he can go rafting with the others. Endangering a rare plant because he wants to dare the others to smell it. Ravaging a hotel lobby to take out Mutagen mosquitoes (and leading to Bullhop's mutation), when Donatello mentions the fact that he handed out manuals for the Turtle tank, the scene shifts to Raph and the others rendering the said manuals to shreds when feeding them to a paper shredder.

- Leonardo, lazy bum.
Has leadership talents but chooses not to bother with them but he also loves victories so much that he willfully leads the team into battles they simply cannot lose if only because it can add up another notch to his victory list. And I haven't mentioned his "Wannabe Deadpool" motormouth yet, he's tiresome and blissfully unaware that people hate his tacky one liners.

- Michelangelo, back stabber.
Goes where ever the wind blows, does buddy-buddy with Meatsweats because at that moment he was cooler than Todd. Invited Bullhop to the lair and starts shouting at him when the latter turns out to be more than the turtles can handle. Has an eye for art but also has no problem with the destruction of that said artworks. His worst character trait however is taking credit for something he wasn't involved with. The wrestler episode being a good example, every single time Donatello wants to do something, Mikey jumps in and does it a second earlier and taking the credit for having done so.

- Donatello, Egomaniac.
Stereotypical "I-graduated-valedictorian-so-I'm-better-than-all-of-you!" entitled nerd. Feels like he's never taken seriously by the others (As I mentioned earlier, the Manual for the Turtle tank scene) but on the other hand does very little to win their respect either. Forcing his rule onto the others with his inventions rather to be accepting that the others are individuals and won't change by force. His meticulousness to being perfect, leads to him flat out denying at ever making a mistake, the creation of Albearto "Wasn't my fault, who is Albearto anyway?" His closest ally is April, to such a degree that she's the only one who willingly hangs out with him, even when he treats her badly. And yes, he DOES treat her badly, when the Purple Dragons made their debut, April warned Donnie about them not being the cool whizz kids he thought they were and when the Dragons used his tech to commit crime, he had the nerve to tell her "You should have told me (she did) so I'm blaming YOU!"

[IndigoErth]

The Great Saiyaman put it well. While there are other issues with this series, including the arc being put aside too much, the changes to the personalities are also my biggest gripe. Save for the two decent choices of Raph not being angry and Mikey being less dumb, the changes to all of their personalities were otherwise however not in a positive direction.

[neatoman]

Criticism aside from adaptation related issues? Well, OK:

• The official episode order is clearly not the intended order
• Some aspects could stand an explaination, or at least one that comes a little earlier
• Too many pointless episodes like Mascot Melee
• Somewhat too silly for a show that also wants you to care about the storyline
• The characters could use a bit more depth
• There aren't any episodes that have mostly bad animation but there tends to be some notable drop in quality for some scenes

That's pretty much what I can criticise the show for without bringing up personal preference and/or previous TMNT material.

Here's what I don't like in regards to preference/familiarity:

• Being a straight up comedy is a big no no
• Never really liked the "humans become mutants" thing, if you want an amalgam of Splinter and Yoshi, please stick to the reincarnation angle. Having Yoshi mutate into a rat in the incident that turned the turtles into humanoids has always been contrived. Not to mention all the other scenarios in which you have to contrive why humans turn into different things.
• Not exactly a fan of Raph and Don's designs, not against making the turtles differ from each other (Mike and Leo look fine) but there is such a thing as overdoing it.
• The Turtles driving around in bizarre combat vehicles has always been a problem in the cartoons, but the literal movie prop from a space adventure film is easily one of the worst offenders.
• Splinter comes across like a parody of both Hamato Yoshi and Splinter, rather than a decent depiction of either.
• The cartoons have admittedly always ignored who April is as a character, but I'm not even that sure who this version of her is beyond a teenage girl who can't hold down a job and yells her own name a lot. Awkwardly trying to fit into a world of weirdness? Except when she tried to avoid it? We don't even know how or why she met the turtles.
• Other depictions of previously established characters, like Shredder and Baxter, also lacks their distinctive familiarity.
• And ignoring The Turtles, April and Splinter, that would mean Baxter and Shredder are the ONLY previously established characters. I guess I should be thankful the new characters aren't just wearing the skins and names of old Fred Wolf characters like in the previous show, but it is strange to see so few.

[Autbot_Benz]

My big criticism is they cancelled the Magnum Opus 2012 Show for this hot garbage. Id love to be in that meeting room of Viacom and Nick when they made that stupid decision.

Neatoman and The Great Saiyaman criticism's are basically mine too.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by LioConvoy

Because I already know the positives. And when it comes to criticisms, I’d like to address direct statements.

I'm just saying if you are coming here to listen to the true fans then should't you get everything both the good and the bad

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

The Turtles themselves, there's a little too much "teenage" and not nearly enough "Ninja"

- Raphael, stereotypical dumb jock.
Makes a pile of bricks look smart. Too easily distracted from what he has to do on a mission and rather makes videos of pigeons eating Pizza to put them online. He also (as do the others for that matter) has NO respect for other's property. Taking the wheels off of Donnie's Turtle tank so he can go rafting with the others. Endangering a rare plant because he wants to dare the others to smell it. Ravaging a hotel lobby to take out Mutagen mosquitoes (and leading to Bullhop's mutation), when Donatello mentions the fact that he handed out manuals for the Turtle tank, the scene shifts to Raph and the others rendering the said manuals to shredders when feeding them to a paper shredder.

Oh yeah because when I think of Raphael and the TMNT franchise as a whole I think of them respecting other people's private property like in the 1st episode of 2k12 where he breaks Donnies bo staff, turn it into escrima sticks and literally beat him like a drum or the time when he and Casey were PLAYING with weapons they don't own on an alien planet yeah thats an example of respecting personal property. If you want go far back enough 2k3 Raph where he and Donnie were throwing April's China while she let them live in her home, also speaking of 2k3 remember when they decided to skate in a MUSEUM and does not going into OT using things they find as weapons(because god forbid you actually use your weapons). Yep when it comes to TMNT the turtles are known nothing except being respectful to private property.

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

- Michelangelo, back stabber.
Goes where ever the wind blows, does buddy-buddy with Meatsweats because at that moment he was cooler than Todd. Invited Bullhop to the lair and starts shouting at him when the latter turns out to be more than the turtles can handle. Has an eye for art but also has no problem with the destruction of that said artworks. His worst character trait however is taking credit for something he wasn't involved with. The wrestler episode being a good example, every single time Donatello wants to do something, Mikey jumps in and does it a second earlier and taking the credit for having done so.

Hows the thing with Bullhop example with "goes where ever the wind blows" patience is finite and Mikey waiting for over a week to shout at them to leave tells you a lot about a character's patience also if you are talking about Hot Soup: The Game the kid was attacked by a Foot ninja and wasn't doing it on purpose unlike the 2k3 turtles. With Shell in the cell that wasn't him taking credit it was him unknowing stealing Don's stuff and finishing his sentences which he stopped doing at the end of the episode.

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

His closest ally is April, to such a degree that she's the only one who willingly hangs out with him, even when he treats her badly. And yes, he DOES treat her badly, when the Purple Dragons made their debut, April warned Donnie about them not being the cool whizz kids he thought they were and when the Dragons used his tech to commit crime, he had the nerve to tell her "You should have told me (she did) so I'm blaming YOU!"

Again that for was ONE episode and you know I would take ONE episode of Donnie being a jerk to April than him being a creepy stalker for two seasons.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

My big criticism is they cancelled the Magnum Opus 2012 Show for this hot garbage. Id love to be in that meeting room of Viacom and Nick when they made that stupid decision.

Neatoman and The Great Saiyaman criticism's are basically mine too.

Why do you want the show to get another season, the show was pretty much done and most characters arc ended in a some sort of resolution(even if some of them were clumsy) so having it continue would be unnecessary also I just gotta ask why do you think 2012 was a Magnum Opus

[LioConvoy]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

I'm just saying if you are coming here to listen to the true fans then should't you get everything both the good and the bad



Oh yeah because when I think of Raphael and the TMNT franchise as a whole I think of them respecting other people's private property like in the 1st episode of 2k12 where he breaks Donnies bo staff, turn it into escrima sticks and literally beat him like a drum or the time when he and Casey were PLAYING with weapons they don't own on an alien planet yeah thats an example of respecting personal property. If you want go far back enough 2k3 Raph where he and Donnie were throwing April's China while she let them live in her home, also speaking of 2k3 remember when they decided to skate in a MUSEUM and does not going into OT using things they find as weapons(because god forbid you actually use your weapons). Yep when it comes to TMNT the turtles are known nothing except being respectful to private property.



Hows the thing with Bullhop example with "goes where ever the wind blows" patience is finite and Mikey waiting for over a week to shout at them to leave tells you a lot about a character's patience also if you are talking about Hot Soup: The Game the kid was attacked by a Foot ninja and wasn't doing it on purpose unlike the 2k3 turtles. With Shell in the cell that wasn't him taking credit it was him unknowing stealing Don's stuff and finishing his sentences which he stopped doing at the end of the episode.



Again that for was ONE episode and you know I would take ONE episode of Donnie being a jerk to April than him being a creepy stalker for two seasons.



Why do you want the show to get another season, the show was pretty much done and most characters arc ended in a some sort of resolution(even if some of them were clumsy) so having it continue would be unnecessary also I just gotta ask why do you think 2012 was a Magnum Opus

I asked for people's input. You can argue in other threads.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

I just gotta ask why do you think 2012 was a Magnum Opus

simple it was dark had bits of comedy had some emotional moments mainly with Splinter and the Turtles and Karai. Had the balls to Kill Splinter (albiet first time was a fake out) which no cartoon has ever done . Wasn't a full on comedy show for kids.

It had stuff for older fans and didn't alienate them like Rise did. It also got me back into Ninja Turtles after being out of it since the 2003 Series which I only watched a bit off.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by LioConvoy

I asked for people's input. You can argue in other threads.

Well that's how I show my input.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

simple it was dark had bits of comedy had some emotional moments mainly with Splinter and the Turtles and Karai. Had the balls to Kill Splinter (albiet first time was a fake out) which no cartoon has ever done . Wasn't a full on comedy show for kids.

It had stuff for older fans and didn't alienate them like Rise did. It also got me back into Ninja Turtles after being out of it since the 2003 Series which I only watched a bit off.

Actually it was three fakeouts but I understand a little better, I disagree heavily that its the Magnum Opus but I kinda can see where you are coming from.

[TommyT]

The show is ugly. It’a not visually interesting, no matter how many dynamic angles and quick cuts they do.

Negatives

Splinter is repulsive, and a joke. Unlikeable and an offensive stereotype.
The shape language isn’t nuanced, it’s aggressively "in your face."
The Cal arts look should not be used for TMNT, ever.
Always felt like the writers were trying too hard. Goofy verging on idiotic.


Positives
The humour in small doses is good, and the pacing of the show is fun.


As a whole, the show is that obnoxious guest at a party, overbearing and extra, the guy you can’t to have pass-out, or leave. Kind of like @papagreg

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by TommyT

As a whole, the show is that obnoxious guest at a party, overbearing and extra, the guy you can’t to have pass-out, or leave. Kind of like @papagreg

Dude if you want to ask me out on a date just be direct with alright because I'm not too crazy with this schoolyard junk. We are both adults so please handle your feeling towards me in a mature way, thank you.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Dude if you want to ask me out on a date just be direct with alright because I'm not too crazy with this schoolyard junk. We are both adults so please handle your feeling towards me in a mature way, thank you.

See below.

Originally Posted by LioConvoy

I asked for people's input. You can argue in other threads.

[Leo656]

I adore a good lover's quarrel.

I'm also a terrible person. Unrelated. But relevant.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I adore a good lover's quarrel..

Don't worry TommyT is a tsundere and this is how he show's his affection.

Originally Posted by TommyT

See below.

You are literally the last person to criticize anyone for derailing a thread, every time I talked about Rise you call me a troll and say I'm not a "Real Fan" because I like a particular incarnation of a franchise that has god knows how many interpretations

[LioConvoy]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Don't worry TommyT is a tsundere and this is how he show's his affection.



You are literally the last person to criticize anyone for derailing a thread, every time I talked about Rise you call me a troll and say I'm not a "Real Fan" because I like a particular incarnation of a franchise that has god knows how many interpretations

I asked for people's criticisms of this show. Not for you to have a lover's quarrel/pissing match in this thread just because people are saying things you don't like. I'm asking people for this info for a reason. If you don't like it, you can haunt other threads.

This is the last time I want to have this out with you.

[drag0nfeathers]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

simple it was dark had bits of comedy had some emotional moments mainly with Splinter and the Turtles and Karai. Had the balls to Kill Splinter (albiet first time was a fake out) which no cartoon has ever done . Wasn't a full on comedy show for kids.

It had stuff for older fans and didn't alienate them like Rise did. It also got me back into Ninja Turtles after being out of it since the 2003 Series which I only watched a bit off.

I'm right there with you Autbot, I always loved turtles as a kid, but the 2012 series really got me hooked again and then I felt gut punched with Rise came along. I'm going to echo about 99% of the negative things that folks had posted here. While the turtles designs themselves did not appeal to me right off the bat I grew to live with them. The thing that really killed Rise for me and rendered it unwatchable for me was Splinter. I'll admit I haven't kept up with it so I can't make any further opinions other then what I has already been said because it would be completely biased for me to do so. Is it an okay show? I guess for the target fanbase they were going for, but it 100% alienated the adult fan base in my opinion and that is the toy markets primary bread and butter these days. Not children. All kids want are electronics now a days which is sad but true. Do kids still want toys? Of course, I'm not saying that at all, but the adult collectors are the ones buying compete sets and waiting at Walmart to get the short packed figures, etc. while forking over the cash for the premium market. Why not cater to them as well? (I mean it is playmates, so I guess compared to Neca they are cheap toys geared towards kids, but you get the general idea of what I mean)

In summary, if you are a fan of Rise, fine. To each their own. I'd say if that's the case give the older audience a Netflix original based off the comic or SOMETHING instead of just taking this huge leap, changing everything so drastically and expecting it to do well with the older audience. *shrug* If you're going to do that you better have a good story to tell, and Rise just doesn't have the story pulling the viewers in to justify all the bizarre changes that they made to the characters and backstory. I dunno… my opinion was that the 2012 show had reeled back in a long time fan like me. I fell in love all over again with the characters and the story. It was silly but had depth and drama and even darkness that most of today's cartoons skirt around. It had a bit of it all and I found myself began spending thousands on TMNT merch which I hadn't done in years and now I find myself feeling less and less interested as time passes by with Rise being introduced. Things just aren't exciting. I'm not rushing home to see the new episode or feeling excited for the future. I'm not running to Walmart to make sure I get the toys... I'm just...meh about it all. I will watch reruns of the older shows to get me by, but Rise really dampened my love for the franchise albeit for a short time I suppose. Eventually they will reboot it again and hopefully Rise will be a learning experience. Maybe it was time for the 2012 show to end, but to replace it with this... yea... I don't think that was a swift move on Nick's part.

Positives, I will say the show does have some good animation at times. I grew to tolerate the voice cast as they settled into their roles... Splinter though... that damn Splinter... I couldn't get past him.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by LioConvoy

I asked for people's criticisms of this show. Not for you to have a lover's quarrel/pissing match in this thread just because people are saying things you don't like. I'm asking people for this info for a reason. If you don't like it, you can haunt other threads.

This is the last time I want to have this out with you.

Oh cry me a river I can't make a Rise thread without TommyTurds calling me a troll so don't act all uppity just because I'm "derailing" your thread because guess what literally every thread here gets derailed and just because you are making an anniversary video doesn't mean you get special treatment.Also its not like people aren't making criticism to the show the person above this post literally did so its not like me replying to people are stopping them from doing what you asked, you decided to make a thread on a forum which is free for everyone to reply to so if you don't want any some sort of argument then private message them or something.