Gotham

[The Stryker]

I didn't enjoy it.

It was full of the typical 'look! It's that thing or person you know!' prequel lameness and all the other conversations and situations were just dull to sit through. Yeah, I don't know. Didn't grab me in the slightest.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, I think it's different if you're an established fan of the Batman franchise so you expect a certain vibe. While I certainly know enough about Batman, I've never really been a diehard fan of it, so for me, this prequel seems just fine the way it is and will get people who may only have a vague idea of who Batman is interested in the franchise as a whole.

I loved Fish Moony and really feel Jada did a wonderful job with it. She's definitely someone you don't want to cross! And I also had a Joker vibe with the comedian as well.

[blindturtle02]

Pilot's up on iTunes and amazon instant video. Thinking about trying this one out. I'm a pretty big Batman fan, so I gotta say I'm not sure what to think about there being no Batman in Gotham. It's worth a shot though, I guess. Might be fun to see what kiddo Bruce is up to. Good to know that the rogues will be showing up.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

What especially excited me was near the end that Falcone guy mentioned Gotham was on a "razor's edge". That's when I thought: wouldn't it be awesome if Batman took advantage of that and tipped Gotham towards the side of the good guys?

But then I remembered.

There is no Batman in this show.

And that's the biggest problem. This show has so much potential but squanders it by making Bruce 10 years old or whatever.

There is no point to introducing all those super-villains when there is no hero to fight them. It's just Gordon (sans trademark mustache) doing some decent police work in a corrupted city. Hell, not even Bullock - his partner - is fighting for "the greater good" or whatever.

The show only captivates people's interest because - defying logic, defying all rationale, defying all evidence - everyone thinks Batman will show up sooner or later.

[CyberCubed]

This show simply should have been a 5-episode prequel to a REAL Batman show.

I mean if this show was leading in to an actual Batman series it would be fantastic. But we know that's not happening. If this show continues it'll be 3-5 years of Gordon fighting crime while Bruce ages up to 15 at the most.

[Leofan26]

I missed the pilot and was really looking forward to it, shame how they can never give Batman an actual live action series. What with these shows like the Green Arrow and The Flash in coming along with Gotham and SuperGirl show being filmed and now new Teen Titans live action series being introduced to us. With Robin / Night Wing being the leader in the series they'll likley be tons of references to Batman like what happened with the Teen Titans Animated series.

They even gave us a SmallVill ( Super Man ) Live action series and added in all those DC characters in it minus Batman.

Why is it so hard to give us a live action Batman show? The villains such as Joker and Catwoman have no powers, meaning less money to spend. The only villains I could see them having a hard time adapting to live action is Poisen Ivey.

These Flash villains they'll have a hard time with, a lot of them have special ability's.

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

Spoiler:

-So Gordon's girlfriend is named 'Barbra?' Wonder if that'll be important later when/if he has a daughter. Or it might be an Easter Egg.

Spoiler:

That's not an Easter Egg in the slightest. Barbara Gordon/Batgirl was named after her mother, Barbara Kean. Altho sometimes Barbara Gordon/Batgirl's origin is that she's Jim and Barbara's niece who they adopted after her parents died in a car crash. But current continutity she's the biological daughter of Jim and Barbara. Generally Jim and Barbara sr are divorced or seperated by the time Barbara Jr becomes Batgirl. There's also a son, Jim Jr, who's nuttier than a fruitcake. Barbara sr got custody of Jim Jr while Jim Sr got custody of Barbara Jr.

[chrisdude]

I felt like it made a good case for Gotham, as a focus for a series. I think they introduced some interesting characters, and I think Gordon's differences with the GPD status quo and the gang war that seems to be brewing could offer plenty of drama. But many of us here are still bummed that there's no Batman, and I think the worst thing they could do is sacrifice a what they've got going and focusing on Bruce. But I could be wrong. I'm really curious to see how this show does in the ratings over the next couple weeks.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, but this was established long before that this was a prequel and that there would be no Batman. I don't care as I want to see how the cops deal with things on their own and how Bruce evolves to become the Dark Knight everyone loves. It shows promise, so I'm definitely going to keep staying tuned. I like how Harvey Bullock isn't really a good cop and is friends with Fish Moony of all people. It just adds to the drama of the whole thing and the conflict Jim has and will continue to have about good and evil.

[The Stryker]

For the record. I don't care about the whole No Batman thing. I actually wish there was LESS Batman stuff in it. They could've held off on the Wayne murders until the season finale for all I care.

I just find the show dull and uninteresting. Bullock is so cookie cutter bad cop that it's hard to really get into him. Which is a shame since he's easily the best actor in the thing.

[ToTheNines]

It's not great. Very stilted dialogue.

I thought they nailed Nygma's portrayal, but some of the others were so cheesy and contrived. Penguin mainly... and dear God, there was just nothing to like about "catgirl".

I'll keep my thumb on its pulse, as I could see a couple of good stories coming out of it. But the very concept doesn't allow much world building (at least, it shouldn't... they'll probably end up pulling a Smallville though).

[Davetello]

I really enjoyed it. Yes, some complaints here are valid - I can understand the problems with the writing or dialogue as it is cheesy in places. But I thought it set the tone well and the show has a lot of promise.

A few guys I know felt that the casting of Ben McKenzie as Gordon was something which might put them off, as they aren't fans (he has 'no charisma', apparently). He did come across as wooden in places, but overall I felt he done a solid job. The dynamic between Gordon and Bullock was interesting enough, and I will be looking to see how they flesh out the likes of Penguin and the Riddler. Not sold on Fish Mooney yet, but we will see what happens in future episodes.

I think they've ruled out Batman eventually being in the show, but I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of them backtracking and time jumping into a late teen/early 20s Bruce Wayne at some stage.

[DarkLightDragon]

Spoiler:

I just realized the 'name' thing they have going on with Fish and Oswald eventually embracing his "Penguin" nickname and how that hints/foreshadows what's going to happen to Fish. I certainly wouldn't put it past Penguin to kill her considering his new killer instinct as well as just her being power-hungry b**ch who wants to overthrow Falcone. Plus, she's an original character for the show and not a mainstream Batman villain so something's obviously going to happen to her at some point before this show even ends.

[BubblyShell22]

I actually liked the scenes with "Catwoman" even though we got no dialogue from her. Just her being there intrigued me enough, especially since she witnessed the Wayne murders herself. As for Harvey, he reminds me a lot of Voight from Chicago P.D. as he seems to be in the same role of not always following the rules unlike Jim Gordon, who seems to be the cookie-cutter good cop in this series. I'm definitely seeing some tension there, and there's definitely going to be a lot of conflict concerning different methods Harvey may try to implement. I have to say that the scene in the meat locker shed was hilarious when both of them were tied up. I just couldn't stop laughing at that.

As for Fish, yeah, I can see Penguin getting revenge on her, but I love her character myself. She's just so awesome.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by Davetello

I really enjoyed it. Yes, some complaints here are valid - I can understand the problems with the writing or dialogue as it is cheesy in places. But I thought it set the tone well and the show has a lot of promise.

A few guys I know felt that the casting of Ben McKenzie as Gordon was something which might put them off, as they aren't fans (he has 'no charisma', apparently). He did come across as wooden in places, but overall I felt he done a solid job. The dynamic between Gordon and Bullock was interesting enough, and I will be looking to see how they flesh out the likes of Penguin and the Riddler. Not sold on Fish Mooney yet, but we will see what happens in future episodes.

I think they've ruled out Batman eventually being in the show, but I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of them backtracking and time jumping into a late teen/early 20s Bruce Wayne at some stage.

I'd love to see an eventual time jump. The thought occurred to me a few nights ago. It'll be interesting to see where the writers go with the series if it gets picked up for more seasons.

[snake]

I'm watching the episode now, S'alright. I like the Jim/Harvey team.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

I'd love to see an eventual time jump. The thought occurred to me a few nights ago. It'll be interesting to see where the writers go with the series if it gets picked up for more seasons.

Yeah, I think they might have to do it at some stage - I don't really see many options if goes on for five or six seasons. I said the same thing to a relative, but he made an interesting point in that he said it doesn't have to be faithful to the source material and that they can take these villains in new directions, especially as they are sort of being re-imagined. He's not a comic book fan, and like The Stryker he said he wants to see less Batman material in it (he actually said there are enough Batman TV shows). What he wants to see is essentially a Batman-less crime drama with some special villains thrown in. From what I know of the series, that sounds like Gotham Central made for television.

Originally Posted by snake

I'm watching the episode now, S'alright. I like the Jim/Harvey team.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would work well in practice, but it's a nice dynamic. They bounce off each other pretty well.

----------------

Listen, I don't think any of us expect this show to challenge the likes of Breaking Bad or The Wire for the title of the greatest television series of the millennium. Everyone has their own opinion of course, but if we go into it with reasonable expectations I think most of us can get a lot from it.

[snake]

I actually liked Penguin. The Riddler was extremely annyoing in his 5 seconds of screen time.

[blindturtle02]

There are a tun of rogues they could play around with over time. I loved how they portrayed Twoface in Batman TAS and hope to see him eventually. I guess this is more real world stuff, so probably no Manbat or Clayface. These two always scared me as a kid, but oh well. I've got to say that Joker in a Batmanless Gotham might also be interesting. They also introduced that Red Claw chick in the toon, and I always loved Kate Mulgrew playing that role. Anywho, yeah, so many possibilities. I wonder if they'll eventually add Deathstroke to the mix or if they'll steer clear since he's on CW's Arrow and-- gasp, that might confuse people! Do network execs think they have to water stuff down for adults as well as kids these days? Hope not.

[snake]

I hope Joker doesn't come in. I always seen him as the guy who rolled into gotham after hearing about Batman. I never really took any of his backstories to heart and always saw them as tricks he would use to confuse people, hence the changes in the backstories.