The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > General TMNT Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-14-2014, 12:47 PM   #141
Cryomancer
Mad Scientist
 
Cryomancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Bad View Post
Well...yes and no. I've been working on a series of blogposts showcasing her visual evolution across all mediums, and I would say that, even without cherrypicking, a case exists for the argument that she was consistently--if by no means uniformly--depicted as black. To what degree depends on the artist, but I think it's safe to say that the issue #32 reprint is less a fluke than it is the natural conclusion of what various artists had been doing.
These posts are pretty cool, whether you are into this conversation or not. Obviously they are quite interesting in context, but even just as a series of images it's neat as well. I would be interested in seeing a similar timeline for other characters too, like Karai.

Very compelling posts, good stuff.
__________________

Final Boss of translation group Opentrain.
We do videogame comics and TMNT stuff.
http://opentrain.theyear199x.org/
Cryomancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 02:56 PM   #142
plastroncafe
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
 
plastroncafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Upsidedown
Posts: 7,915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton Gimmick View Post
April isn't black or white... She's a drawing.
I see your pedantry and raise you: She's a black and white drawing.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel View Post
So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
plastroncafe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 04:21 PM   #143
rickwj324
Stone Warrior
 
rickwj324's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 961
Has Eastman and/or Laird ever gone on record as saying that she was in fact African in any of the comics?
rickwj324 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 04:41 PM   #144
oldmanwinters
Overlord
 
oldmanwinters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow!
Posts: 11,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
I see your pedantry and raise you: She's a black and white drawing.
__________________

Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries!
Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"!
View my sketch work!
I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!
oldmanwinters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 07:36 PM   #145
Parabellum
Random Punk
 
Parabellum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjup81 View Post
TBH, Mirage April always came across as mixed to me with the way her hair was.
I agree, or Hispanic.
Parabellum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 09:50 PM   #146
The Big Bad
Stone Warrior
 
The Big Bad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickwj324 View Post
Has Eastman and/or Laird ever gone on record as saying that she was in fact African in any of the comics?
Nope. Laird has asserted rather emphatically that he always saw her as white, which is debatable--the whole "he originally conceived her as Asian" claim--and doesn't actually confirm or deny what she actually was. Eastman has never confirmed or denied it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Regarding April's Hair, I feel it's important to point out that in Issue 4 of Volume 1 she mentions having her hair permed. Her hair isn't that curly naturally, but because she had it done that way at a salon.
I know; I mentioned earlier that there's a distinct visual difference between the usual perm and April's hair--April's hair does not look like the one in Refractive Reflection's post (the first one of those is a wig, by the way). Still, I'd be willing to buy the explanation given as something other than a handwave if other major aspects of her design hadn't also changed along with her hair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton Gimmick View Post
And there's really no point in making April black. Randomly changing her ethnicity doesn't add anything to the character and serves no point. And if the point is to make a "strong black character" then you need to create one, not randomly change the color of someone. That's just lazy.

And the only medium this would likely ever happen in is film and it seems unlikely that's going to happen anytime soon. So this is just an excessive discussion in nothingness.
Not important to you, perhaps. I guarantee, though, that if in the original cartoon and film had looked like she did in issue #11, it would have been transgressive, original, and radical.

Think Star Trek and Nyota Uhura, a character so important due to being a black woman in a spaceship, that Martin Luther King Jr. stepped in to try and convince Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show. A character, who, in showing black girls that they didn't just have to be servants, and could dare to aspire for more, inspired Whoopi Goldberg--not irrelevant to the turtles--who then inspired Lupita Nyong'o. Black women have been inspired to become astronauts because of her.

This is who April could have been. While she couldn't have exactly broken the same ground Uhura did, having a black female character be the female lead of the biggest cartoon at the time and several hit films would have been no small thing. Even the damsel in distress thing, which is a bad joke when done to a white woman, gains a more positive dimension when applied to a black one: in a society that constantly expects black women to be invulnerable and do everything by themselves, asserting that a black woman can require help, be deserving of it and still be considered worthwhile becomes, again, radical.
__________________
Monsters of New York, my TMNT/Gargoyles Blog

Avatar artwork by Lorna-ka.

Last edited by The Big Bad; 07-15-2014 at 02:40 AM.
The Big Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 10:32 PM   #147
Newton Gimmick
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
I see your pedantry and raise you: She's a black and white drawing.
But of course. Everybody wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Bad View Post
Not important to you, perhaps. I guarantee, though, that if in the original cartoon and film had looked like she did in issue #11, it would have been transgressive, original, and radical.

Think Star Trek and Nyota Uhura, a character so important due to being a black woman in a spaceship, that Martin Luther King Jr. stepped in to try and convince Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show. A character, who, in showing black girls that they didn't just have to be servants, and could dare to aspire for more, inspired Whoopi Goldberg--not irrelevant to the turtles--who then inspired Lupita Nyong'o. Black women have been inspired to become astronauts because of her.

This is who April could have been. While she couldn't have exactly broken the same ground Uhura did, having a black female character be the female lead of the biggest cartoon at the time and several hit films would have been no small thing.
The thing is, that's all speculation and it's a bit of a stretch, IMO. There are so many intangibles there. Not the least of which, being that the Star Trek stuff was in the 1960s and TMNT took the world by storm at the start of the 90s. The impact of having a black lead character was greatly diminished 30 years later, if there would be any impact at all.

And if April had been black, there's no guarantee that the show would have been the hit that it became. If you change something, anything, with the formula at that exact time, it could have changed how popular the show became. The show wasn't a hit because April was white, but the show WAS a hit when April was white. There's no telling what the ramifications would have been if she had been anything else.

I think it's a bit of hyperbole to assume that having a cartoon character be black, would inspire a generation to respect black women or make black women feel empowered. April was largely a pointless plot device and a news reporter, not the equal of Captain Kirk on a futuristic utopia society. By that time, REAL black women were already REAL news reporters. There were plenty of legit black women role models in the era, cartoon characters were hardly going to be landmark anything in contrast.
__________________


Newton Gimmick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 04:32 PM   #148
Coola Yagami
Emperor
 
Coola Yagami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,995
Red face

Black April? I'd hit that. Even as a child if still be checkin that out if age looked that good in the yellow jumpsuit.

I also like the 'she's a drawing' comment. So... Shredder isn't asian cause he's a drawing?
__________________
https://markblogofepicrandomness.blogspot.com Check out my blog on random stuff from TMNT to Batman comics to whatever else hits my mind.
Coola Yagami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 07:07 PM   #149
Powder
Salami Origami
 
Powder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Shell Ri La
Posts: 25,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
I also like the 'she's a drawing' comment. So... Shredder isn't asian cause he's a drawing?

She is literally a drawing. She was not spawned of egg & sperm, but paper & pencil (& crystal). Read volume 4.
Powder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 07:23 PM   #150
Coola Yagami
Emperor
 
Coola Yagami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
She is literally a drawing. She was not spawned of egg & sperm, but paper & pencil (& crystal). Read volume 4.
True true. Wasn't she a pen or ink drawing though, which explains why she lasted longer than Kirby's pencil drawings?
__________________
https://markblogofepicrandomness.blogspot.com Check out my blog on random stuff from TMNT to Batman comics to whatever else hits my mind.
Coola Yagami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 08:02 PM   #151
Powder
Salami Origami
 
Powder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Shell Ri La
Posts: 25,521
I dunno, it's been a while since I read it. I'm far more eager to retread Tales issues than I am volume 4.
Powder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 08:10 PM   #152
Newton Gimmick
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,100
Glad my drawing comment wasn't lost on everyone.
__________________


Newton Gimmick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 09:11 PM   #153
The Big Bad
Stone Warrior
 
The Big Bad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 650
Quote:
The thing is, that's all speculation and it's a bit of a stretch, IMO. There are so many intangibles there. Not the least of which, being that the Star Trek stuff was in the 1960s and TMNT took the world by storm at the start of the 90s. The impact of having a black lead character was greatly diminished 30 years later, if there would be any impact at all.
Really? Because the only way the impact would be diminished would be if works with black women as their leads had become commonplace, or more commonplace. They had not.

Quote:
April was largely a pointless plot device and a news reporter
So? The execution of Uhura's character was plenty problematic; that didn't stop her from being important and historic. What's more, April is still the primary female character, the audience identification character, and the baseline for normalcy, roles which black women are still almost never given, even in 2014. And we're not just talking about the old cartoon here. While she being black in the cartoon wouldn't have guaranteed that she wouldn't be whitewashed or excluded elsewhere, there would have also been a better than normal chance that she would have been black elsewhere. The Archie comics for sure. The 4Kids toon, probably.

Quote:
By that time, REAL black women were already REAL news reporters. There were plenty of legit black women role models in the era, cartoon characters were hardly going to be landmark anything in contrast.
Yes, black women were reporters during the nineties, and earlier. The problem is that mainstream fiction did and continues to do its best to make these women invisible or marginal, which has tangible and detrimental effects. Just how many black women did actually make it to the cartoon as anything other than extras? Heck, how many are there in the Nick cartoon?
__________________
Monsters of New York, my TMNT/Gargoyles Blog

Avatar artwork by Lorna-ka.
The Big Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 11:42 AM   #154
Casey
Stone Warrior
 
Casey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Bad View Post
Nope. Laird has asserted rather emphatically that he always saw her as white, which is debatable--the whole "he originally conceived her as Asian" claim--and doesn't actually confirm or deny what she actually was. Eastman has never confirmed or denied it.



I know; I mentioned earlier that there's a distinct visual difference between the usual perm and April's hair--April's hair does not look like the one in Refractive Reflection's post (the first one of those is a wig, by the way). Still, I'd be willing to buy the explanation given as something other than a handwave if other major aspects of her design hadn't also changed along with her hair.




Not important to you, perhaps. I guarantee, though, that if in the original cartoon and film had looked like she did in issue #11, it would have been transgressive, original, and radical.

Think Star Trek and Nyota Uhura, a character so important due to being a black woman in a spaceship, that Martin Luther King Jr. stepped in to try and convince Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show. A character, who, in showing black girls that they didn't just have to be servants, and could dare to aspire for more, inspired Whoopi Goldberg--not irrelevant to the turtles--who then inspired Lupita Nyong'o. Black women have been inspired to become astronauts because of her.

This is who April could have been. While she couldn't have exactly broken the same ground Uhura did, having a black female character be the female lead of the biggest cartoon at the time and several hit films would have been no small thing. Even the damsel in distress thing, which is a bad joke when done to a white woman, gains a more positive dimension when applied to a black one: in a society that constantly expects black women to be invulnerable and do everything by themselves, asserting that a black woman can require help, be deserving of it and still be considered worthwhile becomes, again, radical.

Yes. Yes. Yes. This.
__________________
GOONGALA!
Casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 11:50 AM   #155
Casey
Stone Warrior
 
Casey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 582
We should also appreciate Sophie Campbell's fanfic's April:

http://secretsoftheooze.smackjeeves....2270209/april/
__________________
GOONGALA!
Casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 12:02 PM   #156
Commenter 42
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
We should also appreciate Sophie Campbell's fanfic's April:

http://secretsoftheooze.smackjeeves....2270209/april/
Like hell.
Commenter 42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 12:16 PM   #157
plastroncafe
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
 
plastroncafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Upsidedown
Posts: 7,915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
We should also appreciate Sophie Campbell's fanfic's April:

http://secretsoftheooze.smackjeeves....2270209/april/
Done and done!
I love her work.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel View Post
So your wants and needs as a fan should outweigh everyone else's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
plastroncafe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 12:40 PM   #158
thundermaster612
Mad Scientist
 
thundermaster612's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ninjago City
Posts: 1,214
Who did the coloring in that version? because I have seen an older color comic variant where she is white, perhaps the person was confused or such?
__________________
thundermaster612 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 12:44 PM   #159
Mew
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: In an apartment
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by thundermaster612 View Post
Who did the coloring in that version? because I have seen an older color comic variant where she is white, perhaps the person was confused or such?
Care to share what you are talking about?
Mew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 01:16 PM   #160
Casey
Stone Warrior
 
Casey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by thundermaster612 View Post
Who did the coloring in that version? because I have seen an older color comic variant where she is white, perhaps the person was confused or such?
I actually think it was a black and white comic. I could be mistaken, but I think it's Mirage Vol 1 Issue 32. And the version in color was a reprint probably Mark Bode or Bill Fitts.
__________________
GOONGALA!
Casey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
april, april o'neil, curious (black), cybercubedtheracist, dc comics, everything is racist, im offended, mirage, plastroncuckold, racist

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.