How dark were the Red Sky seasons compared to the movie and 2k3?

[cammy85]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The USA adapted a law that required television stations to air educational content in children's programming.

Yes they did. The affiliates could adjust their schedules as they saw fit provided they abided by this law. It wasn't just TMNT affected by this. Like I said; once I finally got to see Get Shredder two years later, I understood exactly why it was removed on the old affiliate. There was a question on an English exam in Grade 12 related to cartoon violence and I used this as an example. Unfortunately, the idea was to base my answer on a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon on TV violence so that didn't go well.

Downloading took hours in pre-broadband days (I didn't have broadband until March 2005).

Truth!! Broadband arrived here in April 2000 and not a moment too soon!!

[ABrown]

The red sky seasons weren't necessarily "dark", but they were a little more serious. I'm one of the believers that the change in tone was to make the show a little more equivalent to Batman: The Animated Series. And in my opinion, it succeeded. I found the change to be for the better, though I'm in the minority when it comes to that opinion.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by ABrown

The red sky seasons weren't necessarily "dark", but they were a little more serious. I'm one of the believers that the change in tone was to make the show a little more equivalent to Batman: The Animated Series. And in my opinion, it succeeded. I found the change to be for the better, though I'm in the minority when it comes to that opinion.

Agreed. I think red sky was at least a refreshing change from the goofier mid seasons, though season 7 was heading in that direction too. Despite its flaws, I thought it was done better than Sonic SatAM which had a similar tone at around the same time (that show tried to be serious and fell flat as a result). Seasons 8 and 10 were good for their time imo. Don’t care much for 9, though, as the whole Dregg turning the city against the Turtles got old after a few episodes.

[The-Shredder]

I think it's also telling that Tournament Fighters went in the same direction as well a year before. Even the commercial admits it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

If cartoons were darker beginning with Animated Batman, does anyone know what made them more light-hearted again by the time of TMNT: Fast Forward?

[The-Shredder]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

If cartoons were darker beginning with Animated Batman, does anyone know what made them more light-hearted again by the time of TMNT: Fast Forward?

The motivating factors were lower ratings for Season 4 and lower toy sales. Perosnally, I think it may have been an attempt to relive the 1987 cartoon's glory by making it lighter, but it didn't pan out that way, and many of the toys that were supposed to come out for Fast Forward, Back to the Sewer, and the 25th Anniversary were never released.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by The-Shredder

The motivating factors were lower ratings for Season 4 and lower toy sales. Perosnally, I think it may have been an attempt to relive the 1987 cartoon's glory by making it lighter, but it didn't pan out that way, and many of the toys that were supposed to come out for Fast Forward, Back to the Sewer, and the 25th Anniversary were never released.

I'm talking of trends for (Western) cartoons in general, not just TMNT.

[The-Shredder]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

I'm talking of trends for (Western) cartoons in general, not just TMNT.

I guess the formula began to wear thin by the middle of the decade, but the more I think about it, it probably boils down to action figure sales. The shows were meant to sell the figures. As video games got more popular, action figure sales declined. Young Justice's cancellation immediately comes to mind, whereas with more comedic and experimental shows, you don't need to rely on action figures because the budgets are already low to begin with. Now, we get the same type of cartoons from 15-20 years ago marketed to an older audience. Young Justice got revived for a third season on DC Universe and Samurai Jack got a fifth season on Adult Swim.

[Sobble]

Why is everyone suddenly talking about the red sky seasons

[snake]

Because this is a TMNT forum? And we discuss things from all incarnations regardless of how old they are?

[Sobble]

Originally Posted by snake

Because this is a TMNT forum? And we discuss things from all incarnations regardless of how old they are?

Thanks for the answer

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by The-Shredder

you don't need to rely on action figures because the budgets are already low to begin with.

But isn't the budget only affecting the animation technology, not the plots?

[pferreira]

The change in tone is quite noticeable and jarring. I guess the show becomes more serious especially with Shredder blowing up the Channel 6 building. The Red Sky era isn't really any darker than the 2003 series but it's less darker than the 90s Batman series.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Haha, Skeleton Warriors.

I never watched it, but I have memories of it. Specifically, that it was never actually on, but they ran the ONE commercial for it constantly as if it was a big huge deal. And it was always the exact same commercial.

Never watched Skeleton Warriors (yet) but I own the Sega Saturn game. Not a bad game.

Originally Posted by The-Shredder

The motivating factors were lower ratings for Season 4 and lower toy sales. Perosnally, I think it may have been an attempt to relive the 1987 cartoon's glory by making it lighter, but it didn't pan out that way, and many of the toys that were supposed to come out for Fast Forward, Back to the Sewer, and the 25th Anniversary were never released.

I think it was a big mistake to change the animation style for the later seasons.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

But isn't the budget only affecting the animation technology, not the plots?

Indeed although the more you put into a plot the more that needs to be animated so yeah you can't make each episode epic if the animators have to animate a lot.

[miru]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

If cartoons were darker beginning with Animated Batman, does anyone know what made them more light-hearted again by the time of TMNT: Fast Forward?

I don’t really know, maybe the success of SpongeBob combined with 9/11 and Sonic 06. Given that they briefly got even lighter later on...

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

But isn't the budget only affecting the animation technology, not the plots?

Not if the budget doesn't allow for scenes. Look at the fight between Hun, the Turtles and Bishop. If they couldn't afford to animate all that.... Well that scene would've been left on the cutting room floor and some other sub plot or whatever would've taken that air time.

[slingtheory]

Originally Posted by Icebot

I would think red sky would be meant to be as dark as the movie, after all, movie scenes were shown in the theme song.

And that's exactly why they thrown in there there.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

And that's exactly why they thrown in there there.

Which made no sense, since the Red Sky seasons were NOTHING like the movie except for maybe Carter bearing a slight resemblance to Keno from Secret of the Ooze.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Icebot

I would think red sky would be meant to be as dark as the movie, after all, movie scenes were shown in the theme song.

I never saw the red sky intro back in the day, as the TMHT one from seasons 4-7 was still used in Ireland for some reason, but I guess the movie scenes were added to get people thinking that was the case.

[slingtheory]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Which made no sense, since the Red Sky seasons were NOTHING like the movie except for maybe Carter bearing a slight resemblance to Keno from Secret of the Ooze.

This is gonna sound very cynical of me but I'm 100% sure the plan was to draw thier aging audience back in by reminding them of the darkest visual interpretation of the turtles up to that point. It's the same reasons the turtles bandannas got longer and they changed the design of the eyes to be less round and friendly to being more angular. Ironic really considering what happened to the turtles design in secret of the ooze.

But yeah obviously the show didnt get as dark as the movie it just wanted you to think it did going in. Mostly they just dropped comedic overtones and tounge in cheek nature of the whole thing because turtle mania had died down and they were losing attention to more serious shows. Problem is they copied the style and forgot the substance. Batman, xmen and the other stuff they were trying to compete with weren't dark and mature just for they sake of it. They were just trying to be a good adaptations of thier characters and tell stories that respected thier histories if not being straight up pulled from them. Also unlike anything else at the time they were making an effort not to talk down to their audience or blatantly push toys. Just like always though instead of looking at why something works the suits chose to only copy the superficial aesthetics what's working.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

This is gonna sound very cynical of me but I'm 100% sure the plan was to draw thier aging audience back in by reminding them of the darkest visual interpretation of the turtles up to that point. It's the same reasons the turtles bandannas got longer and they changed the design of the eyes to be less round and friendly to being more angular. Ironic really considering what happened to the turtles design in secret of the ooze.

But yeah obviously the show didnt get as dark as the movie it just wanted you to think it did going in. Mostly they just dropped comedic overtones and tounge in cheek nature of the whole thing because turtle mania had died down and they were losing attention to more serious shows. Problem is they copied the style and forgot the substance. Batman, xmen and the other stuff they were trying to compete with weren't dark and mature just for they sake of it. They were just trying to be a good adaptations of thier characters and tell stories that respected thier histories if not being straight up pulled from them. Also unlike anything else at the time they were making an effort not to talk down to their audience or blatantly push toys. Just like always though instead of looking at why something works the suits chose to only copy the superficial aesthetics what's working.

This. The show was still quite silly just less goofy and a bit more serious.