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Old 05-07-2017, 12:53 PM   #1
Panda_Kahn_fan
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Unite behind a reboot-a change of heart

You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:21 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan View Post
You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.
I agree with most of this except bandanas need to be red and no need for an expanded origin. An opening credits origin: kid with bowl of turtles, truck swerves to avoid a pothole or whatever, ooze canister knocks bowl from kids hands and both end up in sewer... roll credits. Then start the film. The original films could even be a rough prequel so it doesn't have to rehash the origin & Shredder. Like Superman Returns used the first 2 films as kind of a prequel to itself. City at War would make an awesome story for a film and could cover 2 films and the third could go the Image series route.

Cowabunga. Lol.
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:46 PM   #3
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1. Have the 4 Turtles be Actual Characters with their dialogue, emotions, and how they specifically relate to one another (whether on how Mikey & Raph relate to each other, Don & Leo, etc.)...not '1 Dimensional Caricatures'.
2. Have Actual Martial Arts in well-choreographed fashion.
3. Have a movie where it's just the 4 turtles. No April. No Casey. Nothing. You don't need a 'human element' or POV for the audience. Make us see the world through THEIR eyes and POV.
4. The designs of the first two TMNT '90s films are great and were fine. If you want to use new FX/new technology to do them & perhaps enhance them a bit to give a little more differences between each Turtle? That's fine.


Is it hard to do just those 4 things?
Get those 4 things right, and you have something.
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Old 05-07-2017, 03:19 PM   #4
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I would rally behind such a thing. A full about-face is the only real thing they haven't tried.

If such a thing became a movie, the marketing could be amazing, and even drive IDW's reprint sales. "Meet the Original TMNT" docs, viral spots, etc.. Turn the whole idea of what the TMNT are and could be on its head to regular folks, and blow their minds.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:20 PM   #5
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Mostly, I agree with all of you. Except we need April there, she's as much a part of the story as the turtles. And personally, the trilogy I think would be best is; Return to New York, Fugitoid arc, then City at War. Those are the three biggest volume one stories, and those are the stories from mirage most fans of other iterations are the most familiar with. And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters. Red Bandannas could be fine, but I think black bandannas would avoid the 'four raphs' question altogether, and makes them feel more people's expectations of 'ninja'.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:27 PM   #6
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Mostly, I agree with all of you. Except we need April there, she's as much a part of the story as the turtles. And personally, the trilogy I think would be best is; Return to New York, Fugitoid arc, then City at War. Those are the three biggest volume one stories, and those are the stories from mirage most fans of other iterations are the most familiar with. And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters. Red Bandannas could be fine, but I think black bandannas would avoid the 'four raphs' question altogether, and makes them feel more people's expectations of 'ninja'.
That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.

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Old 05-11-2017, 01:32 PM   #7
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And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters.
We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:26 AM   #8
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Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.
Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:30 PM   #9
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Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept.
Thats really the only version fans have yet to see... the 90s fiom wasn't very violent or as dark as it could have been... I'd much rather a netflix series.... spanning volume ones Eastman & Laird stuff... then branch out from there...
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:39 PM   #10
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Thats really the only version fans have yet to see... the 90s fiom wasn't very violent or as dark as it could have been... I'd much rather a netflix series.... spanning volume ones Eastman & Laird stuff... then branch out from there...
Yeah, I'd be more than OK with a balls-out Netflix series. Give us that, then they can release all the PD-like babyish stuff in the theaters they want.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:06 AM   #11
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Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept.
I don't he meant FULL grit and hard violence hence the PG-13 rating
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:54 PM   #12
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Yeah, the only reason I want to see Baxter again, is so we can finally get mousers. And one thing I don't think is necessary is following the mirage stories beat for beat. You can restructure the story to fit a movie format, or borrow elements or characters from other mirage stories to work. For example, meeting April and the Saki/yoshi/mutation backstory could be worked into return to NY in flashbacks. One thing I even did when coming up with my own outline for the fugitoid arc, was work Jhanna in as a prisoner in the triceriton gladitorial arena that the Tmnt team up with to escape, and join them for the rest of the film. Yeah yeah I know she was from the 'battle for planetary leader' arc in the comics, but she made a good fighter/supporting character for my outline. The important the is getting the meaning and themes of the comics without watering them down, copy-pasting every single scene and dialogue snippet is not important.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:57 AM   #13
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Yeah, the only reason I want to see Baxter again, is so we can finally get mousers. And one thing I don't think is necessary is following the mirage stories beat for beat. You can restructure the story to fit a movie format, or borrow elements or characters from other mirage stories to work. For example, meeting April and the Saki/yoshi/mutation backstory could be worked into return to NY in flashbacks. One thing I even did when coming up with my own outline for the fugitoid arc, was work Jhanna in as a prisoner in the triceriton gladitorial arena that the Tmnt team up with to escape, and join them for the rest of the film. Yeah yeah I know she was from the 'battle for planetary leader' arc in the comics, but she made a good fighter/supporting character for my outline. The important the is getting the meaning and themes of the comics without watering them down, copy-pasting every single scene and dialogue snippet is not important.
I'd personally like to not see yet another version of the origin... If they roll a silent origin in the opening credits say an animation of issue ones origin panel for panel... Maybe a screech of tires, some breaking glass and a kid crying "my four baby turtles" and then a splash of green and then end credits... Anyone who WANTS an origin can then go find one of the various reprints of issue #1.... Or a tpb... Also a note to find their local comic book store in the end credits would be good... But superhero movies do not have to always give the origin... Most viewers have an idea already... Move past that and tell a great story.
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Old 05-16-2017, 01:19 PM   #14
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I'd personally like to not see yet another version of the origin... If they roll a silent origin in the opening credits say an animation of issue ones origin panel for panel... Maybe a screech of tires, some breaking glass and a kid crying "my four baby turtles" and then a splash of green and then end credits... Anyone who WANTS an origin can then go find one of the various reprints of issue #1.... Or a tpb... Also a note to find their local comic book store in the end credits would be good... But superhero movies do not have to always give the origin... Most viewers have an idea already... Move past that and tell a great story.
I'd love to see them do something like that. The origin can be minimized, told very quickly to move onto the main story.

Also, when it comes to city at war, I don't think it should be adaptable as is, plot wise. Yes, keep all of the fighting and violence, but I don't think a lot of the elements would work without the context of being a comic book story arc would translate over to a self contained film. I know most people don't' like the 4kids version of City at War, but I think having Hun and His purple Dragons vs. the mob vs. the foot in a no holds barred bloodbath for control of the city, would be more interesting than foot vs. Foot vs. foot. Keep the Splinter-rat king scenes from the comic as-is, and you could make a really violent, action-packed film!
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:09 PM   #15
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Of course I can get behind this. There's no guarentee we pull any weight, but there's always a chance to have your voice heard and considered.

My hope right now is for "R" rated films like Logan and Deadpool to have a large "gravitational pull" on the film industry, which even has some effect on properties usually considered for children.
Sure, it may not lead to an "R" rated TMNT flick, but I imagine there will be some type of reverberation that could reach Viacom. A wake up call that audiences can handle a little more grit.

As for taking action, I'm really not sure what we can do other then taking the time to tweet Viacom, Nickelodeon, etc. You hear more and more these days from companies who claim they are "listening to the fans" and "checking the forums". That's one way to go.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:03 AM   #16
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My hope right now is for "R" rated films like Logan and Deadpool to have a large "gravitational pull" on the film industry, which even has some effect on properties usually considered for children.
Sure, it may not lead to an "R" rated TMNT flick, but I imagine there will be some type of reverberation that could reach Viacom. A wake up call that audiences can handle a little more grit.
I can only see it working if they made it in the same tone and style as the 1990 movie which I thought was most faithful. I personally don't see why something needs to be gritty and violent just for the sake of it. I remember the Casey Jones fan movie released a couple of years ago and it took the level of violence much further than the comics did.

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We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.
I'll play devils advocate here and ask was his appearance in the PD movie any different to the way he was portrayed in the 4Kids series for example?
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:27 AM   #17
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You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.
I'm totally behind this, I'm so glad someone else thought about this as well and brought it back it up. I remember the rumblings people brought up online when the first Bay Turtles film was coming up....having a united fandom front definitely helps out a lot.

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That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.
I would love the red bandanas to be a mainstay but I think with the way the franchise has gone the multi-colored ones are a must just for them to be recognizable to the masses.

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Personally, I'd love to see Leatherhead, rat king, Hun, and a properly done Karai and Baxter as characters in movie one and two, With shredder being a big bad, giving orders and sending the foot out, until he has the fight with the TMNT at the end of the third film. Give hints of his prowess in the first two films- show him fighting in the flashbacks with Yoshi, and sparring with the foot, before breaking him out as a total beast in movie three.

No matter if the franchise is grim and gritty or not, Shredder will ALWAYS be seen as the big bad of the franchise. He should be held off for a big finale, tying up the circle, and bringing vengeance for the death of Yoshi and Shen. You can always follow that with a 'city at war', but he should be given a proper multi-movie buildup.
I agree, Shredder is a definite must.....if only for the first film. I do sorta appreciate what the OoTS sorta did with him in the second film....sorta if only because they were beginning to look like they were going to do a thing with him and Krang.

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Of course I can get behind this. There's no guarentee we pull any weight, but there's always a chance to have your voice heard and considered.

My hope right now is for "R" rated films like Logan and Deadpool to have a large "gravitational pull" on the film industry, which even has some effect on properties usually considered for children.
Sure, it may not lead to an "R" rated TMNT flick, but I imagine there will be some type of reverberation that could reach Viacom. A wake up call that audiences can handle a little more grit.

As for taking action, I'm really not sure what we can do other then taking the time to tweet Viacom, Nickelodeon, etc. You hear more and more these days from companies who claim they are "listening to the fans" and "checking the forums". That's one way to go.
I seriously hope the "R" rated movement has some pull on this. I understand wanting to appeal to younger fans on this but come on. I seriously hope the companies keep tabs on forums like this....they better at least.

Overall I think the theme so far on this thread is "we need to keep shredder" at the very least as an element or some sort of shadow on the franchise. A trilogy for sure, and a "City at War" movie or aspect to that trilogy.
For sure the movie aspect of this needs tending to, especially with everything going on with Marvel and DC.....I wouldn't think this should be too far fetched.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:59 AM   #18
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Yeah, setting him up in the first one does make sense. Use small fry like the dragons for film one, to give the Tmnt their first victory. Movie two shredder literally destroys them after they come after him to fulfil their mission, and they flee to Northampton to recover. Movie three is your return to NY, and they finally slay him. Movies post trilogy go 'what do we do from here?"

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Old 05-22-2017, 02:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan View Post
Yeah, setting him up in the first one does make sense. Use small fry like the dragons for film one, to give the Tmnt their first victory. Movie two shredder literally destroys them after they come after him to fulfil their mission, and they flee to Northampton to recover. Movie three is your return to NY, and they finally slay him. Movies post trilogy go 'what do we do from here?"
Then while the Turtles are in space on Earth you can show how the foundation of NYC is starting to crumble because of the Turtles killing Shredder. April and Casey's relationship (assuming you have them hook up in the first place?) begins to show it's cracks. I would end this with a somewhat happy note like the first one.

5th movie (round of applause if we make it this far) Have April already in California and she recaps the events as to why she is there. 2nd time around gets destroyed by rogue Foots seeking revenge on the Turtles making April cut ties with them. retreating to their lair The Foot follow them and try to cave them in separating Splinter for the Rat King story while the Turtles go to the surface at this point Stockman a new player makes his move and the Mob, Purple Dragons and the Foot all utilize his tech to gain the upper hand while he sits back and makes money off their misfortune. Eventually Karai arrives to help the Turtles gain control.

I didn't include Casey in this heavily as I want him to disappear from the narrative for this one movie and the next one focusing on him trying to piece together his life like April and Turtles before ending with him returning to NY with Shadow (Because the Mirage comics shouldn't be the only version she appears in)
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