The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?)

[Demon-Alukard]

Andrew NDB, here the quote from Interview:

NRAMA: Did it take place after the decapitation of the Shredder by Leonardo but before Karai, the of the Foot Clan in Japan came to New York to restore order?
DB: Yes - it took place right around the time of TMNT Vol. 1 #51.

Sorry for my english

[odupianist]

Here's something I mentioned in the thread about Issue 46...

"I hate to do this, but Dan's gotta be wrong. I just went thru the synopsi of the CAW arc on ninjaturtles.com (mainly cause I don't have my issues at work). April's nowhere close to being home in NYC by #51. Heck, according to the synopsis, April isn't back in NYC until #58. So DrSpengler, I'd even go as far as to say that Tales #46 goes between #58 and 59 or even later. Thoughts?"

[Demon-Alukard]

No, Odupianist, the events from Tales #46 could not take place after issue 58. The Water Tower (where TMNT was hiding) was destroyed as the result of Karai's attack (#56). So, this issue is the last point when this story could take place.

But maybe, events in the original CAW arc occur not simultaneously. For example, April could return to NY before Karai's attack. But these are only suggestions and my efforts to correct Dan's continuity error...

[DrSpengler]

Okay, I might need some help placing the stories in Tales #48.

The not at the beginning of "The Decider" claims it takes place during TMNT Vol. 2. However, that series is so tight-knit that there isn't an opening for all four Turtles, Casey and Splinter to be chilling together at Casey's farm until right after #13. So I stuck it between there and "The Proposal".

"One's Shadow" was a little tougher to place. Mahbe Tristan can drop by and give us a clue.

I put it during the "Mirage Volume 3" era, alongside "The Mother of All Anger" just because they were both short vignettes on Raph. "The Mother of All Anger" takes place after the Foot Mystics had begun their assault on the TMNT, so it doesn't clash too harshly.

But again, Tristan wrote it, so he might have a better idea.

[TristanHuwJones]

Pretty much all my stories take place around the same time frame, with #50 being the exception. The Foot Mystic and the Shadowthing will hopefully come into play in something I'll be pitching in my next round of stories (if and when that comes around). So there won't be any resolution until 2010 unfortunately (unless I can squeeze in another few shorts somewhere down the road). That said, mine takes place after volume 2, and after #36, Jake's I'm not clear on though. I did what you did though, and put it near the engagement issue

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Pretty much all my stories take place around the same time frame, with #50 being the exception. The Foot Mystic and the Shadowthing will hopefully come into play in something I'll be pitching in my next round of stories (if and when that comes around). So there won't be any resolution until 2010 unfortunately (unless I can squeeze in another few shorts somewhere down the road). That said, mine takes place after volume 2, and after #36, Jake's I'm not clear on though. I did what you did though, and put it near the engagement issue

Cool, man.

So is there any objection to where I put "One's Shadow" in my timeline (kinda in the middle of "Volume 3")? It's after TMNT Vol. 2 and Tales Vol. 2 #36.

[DrSpengler]

Added Tales Vol. 2 #49.

I placed it immediately after TMNT Vol. 2 #13. I think that's about right.

Also moved "Eye of Aga-Moo-Tou" to just after "Bullwrinkle in Time", as according to Dan, all the COWboys crossovers are part of a "trilogy".

[funatic]

I was (and still am) in the process of compiling my own TMNT continuity when I stumbled across your list. First off, let me say congrats (I'm glad to see there are people out there as obsessive as myself)! The core of our lists are very similar, but I have a few notable discrepancies that I thought I'd share, take them or leave them.

1) You've listed Tales v1's "All Hallow's Thieves" before Mikey's 1-Shot "The Christmas Aliens." In the opening pages of "Thieves" I believe Mikey mistakes the burglars' noises for Klunk, the cat he found on Christmas. I have the Christmas story as my first in the 'Living w/April' period, and "Thieves" closer to the end, taking place on the Halloween before the Christmas of Leo's 1-Shot.

2) The "Raphael: Bad Moon Rising" 4-parter, according to a passing comment by Lulu in the first issue, apparently takes place nearly a year after the events of Tales v2 #7 "Darkness Weaves." You have these adjacent - which is certainly most appropriate thematically, but it's hard to believe that no other Tales would have occurred within that year gap. I have a few more time-gap gripes which I won't bother you with (unless you want to hear them), but this was the most glaring one that I thought I should mention.

3) Also on the Shadow note - Tales v2 #12 "Paris Nocturne" explicitly takes place in April 2002, as she narrates on the opening panel, while on her plane ride to Paris. Which means it should probably follow closely after Tales v2 #18 "The Blue Hole," which takes place in March 2002, both in the Utrom Alliance gap of 6 months.

4) This one's pretty nit-picky - but Tales v2 #26 "Value of Gold" deals with subject matter that is VERY Recent, and not mid, or even late 90s relevant - MMRPG gold-mining. Don also references a NY Times article about the topic, which (this may make me seem a little too OCD about continuity, but ah heck) after googling, I found does exist and was published in 2005. Hence I like placing this ish in the not too distant FUTURE (that is assuming that TMNT Vol 4 starts in 2001/02, a theory supported by dated issues such as Tales v2 #s 12 & 18, mentioned before). Though that's just getting anal about things, and it does make the casey-no-longer-vigilante debacle even more fraudulent, but hey, what's a great series of comics without a few continuity errors?

Anyway, there are my suggestions (for now), and if I catch any more I'll be sure to post. And congrats once again for an awesome list - I know from experience how draining this timeline can be!

[TristanHuwJones]

This is why I think using specific dates in comics is a bad idea...

Still I think your ideas are worth putting forward to discuss, I mean, that's what the thread is for after all...

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by funatic

I was (and still am) in the process of compiling my own TMNT continuity when I stumbled across your list. First off, let me say congrats (I'm glad to see there are people out there as obsessive as myself)! The core of our lists are very similar, but I have a few notable discrepancies that I thought I'd share, take them or leave them.

Awesome!

There hasn't been any major discussion on the timeline for a while and I'm glad to see someone with as much an eye for detail as myself go over it.

I'm down with all your suggestions and made adjustments to the timeline accordingly.

To apporach them individually, though:

1) You've listed Tales v1's "All Hallow's Thieves" before Mikey's 1-Shot "The Christmas Aliens." In the opening pages of "Thieves" I believe Mikey mistakes the burglars' noises for Klunk, the cat he found on Christmas. I have the Christmas story as my first in the 'Living w/April' period, and "Thieves" closer to the end, taking place on the Halloween before the Christmas of Leo's 1-Shot.

I moved "All Hallow's Thieves to just before "What Goes Around Comes Around". I know there's two months in-between the stories for other stuff to happen, but with how loose each episode is, you can pretty much stick anything you want in there. I also moved "Ghoul's Night Out", "Don't Judge a Book", "The Howl" and "The Apparition" since they all have a Halloween/Horror theme going on and read well together. Obviously, due to their one-shot nature, many of them could take place almost anywhere in the timeline, but I like to group similar stories together.

2) The "Raphael: Bad Moon Rising" 4-parter, according to a passing comment by Lulu in the first issue, apparently takes place nearly a year after the events of Tales v2 #7 "Darkness Weaves." You have these adjacent - which is certainly most appropriate thematically, but it's hard to believe that no other Tales would have occurred within that year gap.

I bumped that one ahead to the end of the Mirage Volume 3 era, just after "Hell's Blacktop". That only leaves about 2 stories inbetween "Darkness Weaves" and "Bad Moon Rising", but there are always future issues of Tales to fill in the gap, I suppose.

3) Also on the Shadow note - Tales v2 #12 "Paris Nocturne" explicitly takes place in April 2002, as she narrates on the opening panel, while on her plane ride to Paris. Which means it should probably follow closely after Tales v2 #18 "The Blue Hole," which takes place in March 2002, both in the Utrom Alliance gap of 6 months.

Good eye. I put it where it belongs. I kinda hate stuffing stories into that gap in the middile of Vol. 4 #5, since it seems like there's just so much stuff already being crammed in there, but dates are dates and you're totally right.

4) This one's pretty nit-picky - but Tales v2 #26 "Value of Gold" deals with subject matter that is VERY Recent, and not mid, or even late 90s relevant - MMRPG gold-mining. Don also references a NY Times article about the topic, which (this may make me seem a little too OCD about continuity, but ah heck) after googling, I found does exist and was published in 2005. Hence I like placing this ish in the not too distant FUTURE (that is assuming that TMNT Vol 4 starts in 2001/02, a theory supported by dated issues such as Tales v2 #s 12 & 18, mentioned before). Though that's just getting anal about things, and it does make the casey-no-longer-vigilante debacle even more fraudulent, but hey, what's a great series of comics without a few continuity errors?

I had a really hard time trying to figure that one out and, admitedly, just stuck it in the Mirage Volume 3 era because I didn't know what else to do with it. You're right that it should probably go in the Future era, albeit it very close to the present. I'm just wary about sticking stuff there since god knows how Volume 4 is gonna end.

I have a few more time-gap gripes which I won't bother you with (unless you want to hear them), but this was the most glaring one that I thought I should mention.

Please, by all means: fire away! I want this to be as full and accurate as possible, with even teh smallest dicrepencies adressed.

A lot of the stories I placed together out of convenience (for instance there are a large number of Casey-centric one-shot stories with no obvious means of deducing their time period, thus I grouped them all together to create a nice little Casey Jones package; likewise, I stuck all the Usagi crossovers together), but if there are more appropriate places they can go, then I'd like to figure them out.

Hopefully, our timelines can end up mirroring one-another's.

[funatic]

Glad to see my input could help craft your mega timeline!

Here are the other notable time-gaps I've found in the series - all Tales v2 related:

#8 "Virus" - Leatherhead has completely rebuilt his transmat, and claims that (due to the tampering with his DNA by the rogue zealot utroms) weeks or maybe months have passed without his knowing. Hence it's been awhile since TMNT v1 #45... so I like to place "Virus" near the start of the 'Volume 3' era, directly followed by #23 (as you have it). Once again, your layout works better thematically though (as is with most of the cases I'll illustrate), so it's all a judgment call.

#34 "Splinter Cell" - following the other plot thread of "Virus" with the female ninja collecting bandannas - on pg 14 Leonardo mentions that she's been tailing the turtles for the past 6 months - so there's another large gap, but when placed in the 'Volume 3' sector its easy to fill a few issues in between it and #23.

#27 "White Horses" - On pg 4 April narrates that she's drove across the country for the past "several months," and is planning on staying in Alaska for at least one month more. This makes me think that this issue would take place later than Volume 4 #29 (even though the segway from April to a depressed Casey in the opening pages of #29 is superb).

Other random thoughts:

I agree that its frustrating to plug so many stories into that 6 month gap. It's especially frustrating when some of them don't even make sense in conjunction, like having #18 "The Blue Hole" set in March and #39 "What Wolves Wear" set in October (at least a 7 month gap???). This is where Tristan's words ring true that having exact dates in a comic can prove disastrous (particularly to detail-oriented fans).

In regards to your Casey/Usagi sections: My list is not nearly as comprehensive as yours - I'm only including full issues, no short stories, and only what I know to be canon (all of TMNT v2 & v4, and Tales v1 & v2, and then just the 'in-house' works of TMNT v1) so I haven't read some of the stories you've listed. The only one in my timeline is Tales v2 #37, which I placed wayyy back, directly before Raph's one-shot, as I thought it was a good pre-curser/intro to a seemingly wilder Casey, who still likes to trash street punks (I believe he's also beating some purse-snatchers at the end of 37, which is what he's doing when Raph finds him in his 1-shot).

I completely missed the boat on the Discussion over #46 "Temps" but my 2-cents is that it should be placed after CAW #51, as that's where it fits best thematically with the TURTLES timeline. While April isn't back until issue 58 or so I have to echo Alukard's thoughts from long ago that the plotlines must not occur simultaneously.

Originally Posted by Demon-Alukard

No, Odupianist, the events from Tales #46 could not take place after issue 58. The Water Tower (where TMNT was hiding) was destroyed as the result of Karai's attack (#56). So, this issue is the last point when this story could take place.

But maybe, events in the original CAW arc occur not simultaneously. For example, April could return to NY before Karai's attack. But these are only suggestions and my efforts to correct Dan's continuity error...

Also, as Alukard points out, Karai destroys the water-tower in #56, so "Temps" cannot take place after that issue.

My 'two-cents' has turned into about $20 so I think I'll put a cap on it for now... hope some of this helps.

[TristanHuwJones]

Based on everything in this timeline, what would people say the timeline is between the death of Oroku Saki (#1) to Return to New York, and then from Return to New York to the end of City at War? Between the end of City at War and Tales #36, I semi-established about a 9 month gap followed by roughly another couple of months between #36 and the end of Vol.2.

I'm currently writing a story that takes place just after Vol.2 ends (which coincides with #56 and #59) and want to get some opinions on times. You know I don't deal in specific dates, so I won't be pinning anything down. I just wanted to get some accurate chronology to the script. Unfortunately I'm not home for a little while and can't get to my comics!

Hope to hear from people soon!

[funatic]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

what would people say the timeline is between the death of Oroku Saki (#1) to Return to New York

I'd say somewhere between 2 & 3 years has passed. I base this off the fact that two Christmas issues lie between - the Mikey & Leo 1-shots. And then Return to New York explicitly takes place a year after the events of Leo's 1-shot. I'd estimate just a little over 2 years.

and then from Return to New York to the end of City at War?

This is up to some debate as there are no real time landmarks presented in the issues in between RtNY & the start of CaW. I'd say at least the following summer (since the winter of RtNY) has passed, to allow time for issues like Sons of the Silent Age, Dreams of Stone, & Masks to take place. This would coincide nicely with CaW - which seems to seasonally follow the release dates of its issues (fall in the first few, winter in the middle, back to spring in the last couple). The seasons also parallel the themes of the arc. All together this would make up a time period of around a year and a half between RtNY & the end of CaW. Conceivably, this could be boosted to 2 and a half years, giving a larger gap for SotSA, etc. but that would mean they wouldn't even be teenagers during vol 2!

Hope this helps!

[KillsTheWeak]

I was wondering about some others not included in your timeline.

There's a few in Turtle Soup you missed.

Gizmo - Shopping Spree
Showdown
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
You're in the Army Now

Also some one shots

Creed - TMNT
The Haunted Pizza
Times Pipeline


Some Flaming Carrot Comics

TMNT - Flaming Carrot 1-4
Flaming Carrot 25-27

And some v1 issues

16,18,22,23,31-41


Any info on where to place those, or if they are not part of the continuity, would be appreciated.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by KillsTheWeak

I was wondering about some others not included in your timeline.

There's a few in Turtle Soup you missed.

Gizmo - Shopping Spree
Showdown
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
You're in the Army Now

Also some one shots

Creed - TMNT
The Haunted Pizza
Times Pipeline


Some Flaming Carrot Comics

TMNT - Flaming Carrot 1-4
Flaming Carrot 25-27

And some v1 issues

16,18,22,23,31-41


Any info on where to place those, or if they are not part of the continuity, would be appreciated.

Most of those are explicitely out of continuity with the regular Mirage timeline, be it overt references, contradictions or just an overall stylistic choice that doesn't even remotely fit in with the other issues.

While the Gizmo series take place within the same "universe" as the Mirage TMNT series, those shorts don't feature any TMNT characters and thus don't need to be placed in the timeline (the only Gizmo story thus far to feature any TMNT characters is the Gizmo and the Fugitoid miniseries, thus why it is placed in the timeline).

[KillsTheWeak]

Ah ok, i understand about the Fugitoid and some of the v1, they are a bit wacky, and/or imaginary tales. Was wondering if you had any specifics about the rest and why they are not included. Like the notes you posted.

[CyberCubed]

Are you sure #18 "The Shell of the Dragon" doesn't take place, given Kevin Eastman worked on it? I was always under the impression that aside from Mark Martin's #16, that everything from #12-18 was in-continuity.

I feel the same for #32 and #33. What makes those not able to fit into continuity?

[DrSpengler]

I'll have to reread #18 and #33 to recall why I made that judgment (or if I was mistaken).

As for #32, it features April as a TV newreporter ala the cartoon and movies, a vocation she never had in the Mirage comics.

[TristanHuwJones]

Okay, so after reading, SERIOUS reading, I've got a definitive answer as to where #36 fits in. Late,late November of the year following City at War, or early to mid December. It'd also have to be AFTER Vol.2. (Thank Christ I made the date references "nearly a year"). Vol.2 would take roughly six weeks around March (the core of it anyway). It'd also mean that all of Dan's Leatherhead related stories (Vol.1 #45, TotTMNT2.8 and 23) would also have to take place after Vol.2 and after my own stories. Depending on how you read it, or what you decide to put into Vol.2 #1, the ONLY story that could fit between City at War and Vol.2 is the Shredder Shark finale, but there'd have to be some sort of loose explanation for Splinter being back in NYC. The reason being that Donny's leg is still broken in #1, so unless it got damaged again somehow (Tales writers take note!), you can't have any stories involving a healthy Don between City at War and Vol.2. You could possibly fit Tales Vol.2 #22 in between #1 and 2 of Vol.2 though, but again it could fit anywhere.

I'm also being something of a futurist here, but Ross and I were tossing ideas around for a possible follow up, but it'd tie into what I've been doing with Hun and Lin, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

As for #32, it features April as a TV newreporter ala the cartoon and movies, a vocation she never had in the Mirage comics.

I've always been OK regarding that as a onetime job that didn't work out quite right.