Did anyone else feel Super Shredder was a little unnecessary

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Super Shredder only appeared in about 6 episodes from what I recall, it's not like he was overused in this form either.

5 episodes as I said. (If you count the first glimpse of mutating in Insecta Trifecta, then six.)

• The Super Shredder
• Darkest Plight
• The Tale of Tiger Claw (brief cameo)
• Requiem
• Owari

[MCLeo28]

I think it was done very effectively since it was symbolic of Shredder's transformation into a monster in a literal sense and effectively showed how deranged and obsessed Shredder was with pursuing his revenge; even going as far as to turn into something he loathed the most. It was handled very well and was effectively illustrated from his debut up until his final battle with the turtles.

[ABrown]

Personally, I think Super Shredder was a perfect fit for this series. I think he was a better fit than regular Shredder was.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Personally, I think Super Shredder was a perfect fit for this series.

Seeing as how every human in the show either becomes a mutant or has some mutagen origins, of course. There was never a doubt in my mind we'd eventually see SuperShredder.

[DestronMirage22]

Seemed pretty unnecessary to me.
But I guess they did it to make people care more for him before his untimely demise (and like that lasted long).
And also for the most important reason these days: to sell more toys.

[kelligrafie]

Originally Posted by DestronMirage22

But I guess they did it to make people care more for him before his untimely demise (and like that lasted long).

I dunno, I mean he turned on Karai. He took away his ability to feel emotion and therefore removed the last of his humanity, the one thing that gave him the slightest chance of redemption.

After that nobody in the audience could genuinely feel sorry for him, because there wasn't enough human in him to be pitied.

At least like people say, it was covered in five episodes so if you didn't like Super Shredder, it wasn't dragged out over infinite episodes like 'the' love triangle.

[THGhost]

Not particularly. He had to evolve somehow.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I could have done without it, but I don't mind that they did it.

I guess the "becoming a monster" thing makes it work.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

I dunno, I mean he turned on Karai. He took away his ability to feel emotion and therefore removed the last of his humanity, the one thing that gave him the slightest chance of redemption.

After that nobody in the audience could genuinely feel sorry for him, because there wasn't enough human in him to be pitied.

At least like people say, it was covered in five episodes so if you didn't like Super Shredder, it wasn't dragged out over infinite episodes like 'the' love triangle.

Well that's the point. The audience can reconcile with something that has been established over the course of the series, the fact that he's pure evil and a monster which made it imperative that Shredder was stopped once and for all.

Don't tell me that Shredder's conflict of being a monster (brought up by Leo) in Owari isn't a memorable sequence, it certainly was and showed some remorse and humanity on Shredder's part.

[Candy Kappa]

I wasn't a fan of it, and I thought the design was a bit on the sillier side of Nick TMNT monster designs. but, at least it was handled well enough story-wise.

[BubblyShell22]

No, I think it was necessary to show how far Shredder stooped to get his revenge by becoming the thing he despised the most. He wanted to eliminate his enemies and he felt the best way to do it was to become more powerful as a mutant and possible remain on equal footing with the Turtles in a way.

[myconius]

i agree with those saying that Mutating Shredder was unnecessary.

if the Turtles had a hard time beating the Shredder as a human, having them fight a monstrous Super Shredder was just overkill.

the only way the Turtles should have been able to defeat Super Shredder would have been by feeding him those Hostess Turtle Pies from the 90's.

[CyberCubed]

The way the Turtles were shown beating Super Shredder worked well. They used his huge bulking size against him and it was obvious he couldn't use any of his ninjitsu moves in his mutated form, so it's believeable they were able to defeat him while they had trouble when he was human.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The way the Turtles were shown beating Super Shredder worked well. They used his huge bulking size against him and it was obvious he couldn't use any of his ninjitsu moves in his mutated form, so it's believeable they were able to defeat him while they had trouble when he was human.

I don't know the dude was really agile despite his hulking size, we saw him do kicks and jumps during his final encounter with the turtles. Hell you can barely say he lost any agility from his new form since this Shredder wasn't really much of a flashy fighter only using strikes and grabs.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

I don't know the dude was really agile despite his hulking size, we saw him do kicks and jumps during his final encounter with the turtles. Hell you can barely say he lost any agility from his new form since this Shredder wasn't really much of a flashy fighter only using strikes and grabs.

In the beginning of Requeim, he showed that he has all of ninjitsu skills intact when he fought against the Karai hologram. Super Shredder was an upgrade from normal Shredder in every way physically but lost all of his morality.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

In the beginning of Requeim, he showed that he has all of ninjitsu skills intact when he fought against the Karai hologram. Super Shredder was an upgrade from normal Shredder in every way physically but lost all of his morality.

What morality, the dude was willing to sacrifice the Earth just to fulfill his petty revenge, the dude was pretty much irredeemable by the middle of season 3.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by myconius

i agree with those saying that Mutating Shredder was unnecessary.

if the Turtles had a hard time beating the Shredder as a human, having them fight a monstrous Super Shredder was just overkill.

the only way the Turtles should have been able to defeat Super Shredder would have been by feeding him those Hostess Turtle Pies from the 90's.

In the beginning of season 1, they definetly got completely destroyed by him in their first confrontation but it didn't stay that way throughout the series. As time went on, they were able to get more hits on him. It didn't get to the point of them easily beating Shredder like the orignal cartoon, but you could definetly notice when by season 3, Leonardo was usually the one to fight Shredder single handedly and even managed to hold his own.

To me, Super Shredder made sense because by the end of season 4, the turtles had significantly improved in their ninja skills and had already fought so many dangerous enemies like Lord Dregg, the Triceratons, Kraang Subprime, giant 80s Krang, the Mega Shredder, Armaggon that Regular Shredder would've seemed somewhat underwhelming compared to them.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

What morality, the dude was willing to sacrifice the Earth just to fulfill his petty revenge, the dude was pretty much irredeemable by the middle of season 3.

What I mean is that in season 3 as a human, he still had the capability to turn his ways but by the time he mutated, he was a mindless monster incapable of emotional reaction.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

What I mean is that in season 3 as a human, he still had the capability to turn his ways but by the time he mutated, he was a mindless monster incapable of emotional reaction.

Exactly. Splinter would never really kill Shredder, the only times he attempted to do so was during Showdown and Owari. The other confrontations he has left Shredder alive partly because he is the only person from his past he truely has left. Yes there is Karai, but Karai was only a baby when Splinter knew her so she's just as much as a nuance in his life as the Turtles where she is currently.

Splinter also allows Shredder to live so that Karma can run its course or he still has some chance of seeking to redeem some honor, which would likely be performing sepuku.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Exactly. Splinter would never really kill Shredder, the only times he attempted to do so was during Showdown and Owari. The other confrontations he has left Shredder alive partly because he is the only person from his past he truely has left. Yes there is Karai, but Karai was only a baby when Splinter knew her so she's just as much as a nuance in his life as the Turtles where she is currently.

Splinter also allows Shredder to live so that Karma can run its course or he still has some chance of seeking to redeem some honor, which would likely be performing sepuku.

It is also worth noting that Splinters first reaction upon seeing Super Shredder was to respond with concern and offer to help him end his mutation, to which Shredder refused and attacked him.

I think the final nail in the coffin was in Requiem when Shredder's evil had taken him so far that he ordered Stockman to inject him with more mutagen that would ultimately destroy all emotional reaction within. That way, he had given up his soul for good and essentially was nothing but a mindless killing machine.

In his final confrontation with Leonardo, the Shredder seemed to hesitate when Leonardo asked him whether his destiny was to be a monster but then immediately started attacking again impulsively. Its as if his soul deep down was trapped and suffering in hell, unable to affect his body and regretful, but it was far too late to change as his body had become what his spirit was throughout the series, the embodiment of evil.