Mirage Turtle personalities compared to the other mediums?

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

When it comes to fighting/defense, how do the Mirage Turtles stack up to, say the 1990 movie, the 2k3, and 2012 Turtles?

I would say the mirage turtles are stronger but their capabilities are inconsistent. For example; the turtles would be able to defeat a powerful, evil ninja master but then lose to some punk, just inconsistent. The turtles are basically 50/50 when fighting each other. They are equally strong in their own ways.

Unlike 2k3 which godmoded Leonardo ONLY and neglected the other turtles, mainly Raph. 2k3 Raph is the weakest turtle and literally adds nothing to the team. His anger is a nuisance, his fighting skills are laughable, his strength can be surpassed, his intellect is laughable as well. So unlike the original Raph whose anger boosted his strength and his skills in hand to hand combat is unsurpassed. He basically slapped Shredder around with just his fists, but is somehow unable to do the same with the sai. Again, the original is better but very inconsistent.

2012 turtles are actually pretty well done. Except Donatello gets beaten too easily. Inconsistencies still happen though. Such as Raph learning to cope with emotions in Turtle Temper yet manages to forget his lesson in Follow the Leader. The show does show noticeable growth in combat skills though, which is good.

I would rank best to worst in combat prowess
#1 Mirage, the turtles are powerful and are equally strong in comparison. Ignore the comics that strayed too far from the source material. They are disowned for a reason.
#2 2012 'tis good
#3 1989, in the early episodes they showed quite a bit of awesome combat skeels, more so than 2k3. It gets ruined by the later episodes though.
#4 2k3, 'cause the show only god modes Leonardo. You are only as strong as your weakest link. I also really disliked the story and its writing,TIS SUCKY TROLOLOL.

Also I would like to mention that peeps tend to be exaggerating Donatello's so called "dark side". Most of his vile attitude came from an affliction and not his own personality. All of his questionable deeds were actually done in the best interest of his family.

Raphael is the natural, violent psychopath which is why I love his stories. So much interesting things. The stories that mellowed him out make me sick. I wish the writers would just embrace the monstrosity within Raphael. It makes a better story than conforming to the idea of perfection.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Werecat

Also I would like to mention that peeps tend to be exaggerating Donatello's so called "dark side". Most of his vile attitude came from an affliction and not his own personality. All of his questionable deeds were actually done in the best interest of his family.

Raphael is the natural, violent psychopath which is why I love his stories. So much interesting things. The stories that mellowed him out make me sick. I wish the writers would just embrace the monstrosity within Raphael. It makes a better story than conforming to the idea of perfection.

1) Agreed. Although the Baxter thing is super-duper f*cked up. And he absolutely has a superiority complex. It doesn't make him a terrible person, but he does have trouble relating to the likes of Raph and Casey.

2) I think you're exaggerating how "mellowed out" he gets. He bonds with Shadow in her teen years, but, like, his most sentimental stories involve him fighting ninjas for a baby, helping a woman stand up to her abusers, and ... befriending Cha Ocho only to totally leave a bunch of alien hostages when they go out for beer? He still ends up wandering the Earth looking for fights.

Latter-day Mirage Raph is just latter-day Wolverine. Mellowed out in the sense that he's not an unhinged psychopath and with a certain sentimental streak, but still hard as nails.

[Warhorse]

Now, I have read some reviews on some TMNT wiki site, and there is a moment where it goes into detail when everyone is at the farm, and April is describing them in her journal, pretty much like she is in the movie, but in the comic, she actually notes that Raph stays quiet and watches over everyone on the barn roof, but there was something about him that terrified her. In other mediums, April and Raph actually had great chemistry, so I was wondering, in the comics, did April ever get over her fear of Raph, or was it something that was there to stay?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Now, I have read some reviews on some TMNT wiki site, and there is a moment where it goes into detail when everyone is at the farm, and April is describing them in her journal, pretty much like she is in the movie, but in the comic, she actually notes that Raph stays quiet and watches over everyone on the barn roof, but there was something about him that terrified her. In other mediums, April and Raph actually had great chemistry, so I was wondering, in the comics, did April ever get over her fear of Raph, or was it something that was there to stay?

It isn't much brought up again, actually. The only other instance I can think of is the end of "Sons of the Silent Age" (#28, I think), which is also one of the best TMNT stories of all time.

If you want to read up on the Mirage series, don't go with the Wiki. Check out tmntentity.blogspot.com, which is curated by a member here and has reviews for most of the series. I don't always agree with him, but the site has excellent summaries and trivia.

[Powder]

I co-sign that. Excellent blog.

[Rooish]

Maybe 2k3 Leo was OP and 2k3 Raph was "weakest," but it was way better than the b.s. 2012 cartoon wherein Raph and Leo are outright acknowledged to be better than Don and Mikey, at least at first. In Mirage Don was not a weak link in terms of fighting. I think Mikey may have been portrayed that way at first, but not for long.

I don't mind Leo being the best fighter; he's the leader after all, and in Mirage he killed Shredder, alone, after Raph acknowledged, basically, that he couldn't get to Shredder because the elite guards were kicking his butt. (Also it was Mikey that killed two out of three of the Shredder clones.) Mirage Leo was the best fighter.

[terrorblade]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Maybe 2k3 Leo was OP and 2k3 Raph was "weakest," but it was way better than the b.s. 2012 cartoon wherein Raph and Leo are outright acknowledged to be better than Don and Mikey, at least at first. In Mirage Don was not a weak link in terms of fighting. I think Mikey may have been portrayed that way at first, but not for long.

I don't mind Leo being the best fighter; he's the leader after all, and in Mirage he killed Shredder, alone, after Raph acknowledged, basically, that he couldn't get to Shredder because the elite guards were kicking his butt. (Also it was Mikey that killed two out of three of the Shredder clones.) Mirage Leo was the best fighter.

Leo is not just the best fighter in the 2k3 series, he's also a CSI.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Powder

Mikey's stuff, yeah, but only maybe half for Donatello. Besides, vol. 3 was written to be a canon continuation of vol. 2, with Eastman & Laird approving every single move Gary Carlson made in scripting the series. Laird is the one who decided 10 years later he no longer wanted it to be canon, but never wrote anything that contradicted the events of that volume, leaving it open to interpretation. I think most fans still consider it canon, & there are even select Tales issues that seem to insert themselves in or around that era. Plus you've got the finisher books, featuring the original creative team, which tie it into vol. 4.

Valid points. Especially on Laird's backtracking although I can't blame him. He wanted to write about his turtles in the way he left them. I'm a little confused as to how Vol. 4 doesn't completely ignore Image though? Can you explain?

[Powder]

Vol. 4 takes place a few years later, so there's a maybe 5 year gap in which the events from vol. 3 would have been resolved. It does ignore the Image books, but it doesn't go against them, per se. If you read in this order, everything flows naturally without many holes. http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2010/...-timeline.html

[Rooish]

I thought Vol. 4 started with the Turtles being at least 30?

[Powder]

That may well be. Vol. 4 is the department in which I'm rusty. All I know is there was a sizable gap between the volumes' timeline...

[Bry]

I actually really like Mirage Donatello a lot because of his superiority complex and the darker places that can take him. He may be a less immediately "likeable" character compared to the cartoon versions, but I think he's a stronger one. Many highly intelligent people can feel isolated at times (hey, it's even a trope!) and deal with trouble relating to others and even some darker emotions, and depression, because of that. In Donatello's case, that's hugely amplified because he's also so much more isolated by being a mutant turtle.

It doesn't mean he's not a good person. But his social instincts can be a bit... off. He hasn't developed in a way most people can understand. It's an added struggle, and for the most part, I feel like the Mirage team handled that pretty well.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Maybe 2k3 Leo was OP and 2k3 Raph was "weakest," but it was way better than the b.s. 2012 cartoon wherein Raph and Leo are outright acknowledged to be better than Don and Mikey, at least at first. In Mirage Don was not a weak link in terms of fighting. I think Mikey may have been portrayed that way at first, but not for long.

i actually like the way the 2k12 cartoon is handling their fighting abilities. yeah at the beginning it was kind of a cheap shot to mikey and donnie about them not being as good of fighters as the other two, but really, its pretty accurate, for the beginning atleast, with raph the brute and leo the training obessed leader, donnie with spending his time inventing and mikey with his time spent having fun, they shouldnt be quite on the same level as the other two. and the show has definitley shown those 2 progressing in terms of ability as its gone on.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Maybe 2k3 Leo was OP and 2k3 Raph was "weakest," but it was way better than the b.s. 2012 cartoon wherein Raph and Leo are outright acknowledged to be better than Don and Mikey, at least at first. In Mirage Don was not a weak link in terms of fighting. I think Mikey may have been portrayed that way at first, but not for long.

I don't mind Leo being the best fighter; he's the leader after all, and in Mirage he killed Shredder, alone, after Raph acknowledged, basically, that he couldn't get to Shredder because the elite guards were kicking his butt. (Also it was Mikey that killed two out of three of the Shredder clones.) Mirage Leo was the best fighter.

I never understood this. If Mirage made Leo the best fighter, then why did Laird and Eastman bother inventing the other Turtles to begin with if it was not going to be a team effort? I just never understood this, everyone should have a weakness where another should have that strength to make up for it. Hell, in the Avengers, Captain America may have been the leader, but he was no where the best fighter, strongest person or the most intelligent. He was really good at getting people to stand by him despite their difference of opinions and personalities.

In other words, if you, as a leader, has to do everything yourself, then you're not much of a leader to begin with.

Originally Posted by Cipher

It isn't much brought up again, actually. The only other instance I can think of is the end of "Sons of the Silent Age" (#28, I think), which is also one of the best TMNT stories of all time.

If you want to read up on the Mirage series, don't go with the Wiki. Check out tmntentity.blogspot.com, which is curated by a member here and has reviews for most of the series. I don't always agree with him, but the site has excellent summaries and trivia.

Actually, I was mistaken, this was the site I got my information to begin with.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

i actually like the way the 2k12 cartoon is handling their fighting abilities. yeah at the beginning it was kind of a cheap shot to mikey and donnie about them not being as good of fighters as the other two, but really, its pretty accurate, for the beginning atleast, with raph the brute and leo the training obessed leader, donnie with spending his time inventing and mikey with his time spent having fun, they shouldnt be quite on the same level as the other two. and the show has definitley shown those 2 progressing in terms of ability as its gone on.

Mirage Donatello he mostly kept to himself. He would show concern about his brothers when they were injured and there were some moment where he questions who he is as a ninja. He also isn't above duking it out with his bro's or giving them death glares when he is just not in the mood with putting up with their **** at that point in time. In his elder years there is one comic where Don is running a simulation program where he faces off against the Foot and Shredder. But when an image of his brothers and himself when they were in their prime appears he freaks out and demands the computer end program and delete that image because he never wanted to see it again. And then he goes out on the deck and appears to cry indicating something tragic may have befallen his family or he may have regrets about things that may have happened in the past.

O.T. Donnie is as happy go lucky as the rest of the Turtles. And is complimented along side Leo by splinter for their dedication. However he is often treated as a joke by his companions because his technical pursuits do backfire. There are moments where he is shown telling stories about some of their battles against the Shredder but he embellishes his role in the story to make it sound like he's more skilled then he actually is. And when his skills do get brought into question, Don does attempt to prove himself which does result in himself or one of his companions getting hurt such as Night of the Dark Turtle where he's electrocuted and goes nuts. I did find his distrust and vocal dislike towards humans to come out of nowhere in the fourth episode of the first season. In Red Sky, yes it was more appropriate for them to complain because most of the city had turned against them. But in the first season the vocal dislike should have been acknowledge with their first meeting with April.

2k3 Don is a skilled fighter and his skills do compliment his brothers. However he isn't he strongest fighter on the team, but he knows his brothers have his back in most fights and where he lacks as a fighter he makes up for with his ingenuity and resourcefulness. The only time he acknowledges his failings as a fighter is during the Battle Nexus tournament when he is is defeated in the first round and he complains that his brothers wouldn't let him hear the end of it. Even then it turned out to be fortuitous because he was there to look after Leo after he was poisoned and he does get very protective to the point of refusing to let Usagi anywhere near his older brother.

In the 2012
Donnie even acknowledges himself that he isn't as skilled as his brothers in the Tales of the Turtle Lair comic on the Nick site. In his trial he has a flash back where he tells Splinter "It feels like no matter how hard I train, I just can't keep up with my brothers."

That highly depends on whether or not you see that comic as cannon.

Donnie has certainly shown more dedication to his training then say Raph and Mikey have. Such as the training session in Baxter's gambit, Donnie is the only one aside from Leo who senses when he should move. And even though he doesn't succeed that action it more then Raph or Mikey, since Mikey was too busy anticipating the strike, and Raph knew the strike would happen but didn't sense it.

And we see him in more training sessions then say Mikey or Raph.

However when his brothers are not around 2012 Donnie does excel really well as a fighter. The only time Donnie is shown really excelling as a fighter on his own with his brothers around is in Monkey Brains.

I would say Metalhead as well, but that situation was also caused by Donnie as well. As Raph does proceed to rub Donnie's face in the fact.

Personally I think there is something in Donnie's personality that is holding him back. It's not just the technical dependence, part of it may be because he doesn't see himself as anywhere close to his brothers in skill. Which is plausible seeing as he was rather surprised that he was able to take out Raph in Operation Break Out. Perhaps there is a trait that Donnie refuses to acknowledge and the more he doesn't acknowledge it the more it's going to hold him back.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Powder

Vol. 4 takes place a few years later, so there's a maybe 5 year gap in which the events from vol. 3 would have been resolved. It does ignore the Image books, but it doesn't go against them, per se. If you read in this order, everything flows naturally without many holes. http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2010/...-timeline.html

The big issue is the damage taken by the turtles. Eyes, cyborgs etc. I see what you mean though about it casually not discussing those past years much.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Yeah, Casey comes up and starts telling Donnie about how he thinks he's better then everyone because he's so smart. Donnie tells him to go away and come back when he's sober. And when he continues to bug him he gets Donnie's wrath.

I really would love to see this play out in one of the movies, or even in the Nick toon (just take out the drunk part) We don't get, if any at all, an episode or movie where Donnie finally has a breaking point explored.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I really would love to see this play out in one of the movies, or even in the Nick toon (just take out the drunk part) We don't get, if any at all, an episode or movie where Donnie finally has a breaking point explored.

In the Nick toon Don's "breaking point" is explored quite thoroughly--he's a spaz! As for why Eastman and Laird bothered to have the rest of the team if Leo was the best fighter... well, to me it makes sense that the best fighter leads because he has the best strategy both in fighting and leading. But in Mirage Leo did get kind of overpowered. Most other versions decide that at least one of the Turtles is the best fighter and don't have them completely balance out. In 2003, it's also Leo but also Mikey. In Nick it's Raph. In the OT they do seem to be equal and I must admit that was nice. I can understand Don being the worst fighter because he has this whole other set of skills, but the way it's acted out in Nick is something I really hate.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Rooish

In the Nick toon Don's "breaking point" is explored quite thoroughly--he's a spaz! As for why Eastman and Laird bothered to have the rest of the team if Leo was the best fighter... well, to me it makes sense that the best fighter leads because he has the best strategy both in fighting and leading. But in Mirage Leo did get kind of overpowered. Most other versions decide that at least one of the Turtles is the best fighter and don't have them completely balance out. In 2003, it's also Leo but also Mikey. In Nick it's Raph. In the OT they do seem to be equal and I must admit that was nice. I can understand Don being the worst fighter because he has this whole other set of skills, but the way it's acted out in Nick is something I really hate.

I just like the idea that they are balanced as a team, but apart, they struggle.

I like the idea of say, Leo-good all around skill in fighting, tactics, and has an unspoken understanding of psychology and philosophy, hence his being able to predict what an enemy will try to do.
But, he lacks communication skills outside of that as a leader, so it's hard for him to come across to good people who come into the group. This is where Mikey and Raph come in handy, since they tend to form the most friendships outside of the brother hood.
When it comes to more technical stuff, I can see all three being better than Leo in this. Donnie is by far unmatched and unequal in his understanding of science, computer technology, both hardware and software, and in intricate engineering designs across the board. Mikey, I can totally see him to be the go to guy when setting up the TV, radio systems, how to work a smart phone or the software of a computer, and Raphael, I see him knowing his way around an engine.

Donnie, when it comes to the brains, cannot be beat. And for some reason, while most incarnations have shown him to be brains, but no brawn, when looking at the pics in the comics, it definitely looks like he could hold his own in an arm wrestling match. I could totally seeing him the second strongest behind Raph, just from his build alone, and I swore I read that somewhere in a comic where it was mentioned he had a peculiar physical strength about him. It seems his only real fault is almost similar to Leo's, just I feel it's more extreme in Donnie, and that's his social awkwardness/anti-social behavior. And unlike Leo, who seems to be his best counterpart, he doesn't seem to be as spiritual.

Mikey- The heart and soul of the group. Does he really have a weakness though? In the comics, I can't think of any. Just because we really don't see him kicking Shredder's ass, or building an intricate computer, doesn't mean he can't. I just found him one of those who just goes with the flow, and he is probably more at peace with himself, his surroundings and the world as a whole. He might even be a bit more on the spiritual side than Leo is. But his outgoing personality is I think his biggest strength. I mean, he's even Raph's best buddy in the comics, right? That's gotta say something about the guy.

Raph seems to be almost just like his brothers while at the same time, almost the exact opposite. Leo-he's shown as nearly as good as a fighter, but he lacks Leo's inner peace. He makes up for it by having the closest friendship with Casey and Mikey. Mikey, he's not as spiritual as Mikey, and again, doesn't share the same peace within, but he does share Mikey's outgoing personality, even though he won't admit it. And he has been shown in the comics as liking to tinker with engine, like Donnie does with most mechanic, technical stuff, and they even share to a slight degree that feeling of being alone although their tempers are about as contrasting as one could get.

Am I getting the jest of their characters in the comics? Or did I write a lot of BS?

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

But, he lacks communication skills outside of that as a leader, so it's hard for him to come across to good people who come into the group. This is where Mikey and Raph come in handy, since they tend to form the most friendships outside of the brother hood.
When it comes to more technical stuff, I can see all three being better than Leo in this. Donnie is by far unmatched and unequal in his understanding of science, computer technology, both hardware and software, and in intricate engineering designs across the board. Mikey, I can totally see him to be the go to guy when setting up the TV, radio systems, how to work a smart phone or the software of a computer, and Raphael, I see him knowing his way around an engine.

I totally agree with this! I always thought that Mikey should have some computer geek skills and gadgets, and could pick up some of Don's knowledge by hanging out with him. Raph should know machines too.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Donnie, when it comes to the brains, cannot be beat. And for some reason, while most incarnations have shown him to be brains, but no brawn, when looking at the pics in the comics, it definitely looks like he could hold his own in an arm wrestling match. I could totally seeing him the second strongest behind Raph, just from his build alone, and I swore I read that somewhere in a comic where it was mentioned he had a peculiar physical strength about him. It seems his only real fault is almost similar to Leo's, just I feel it's more extreme in Donnie, and that's his social awkwardness/anti-social behavior. And unlike Leo, who seems to be his best counterpart, he doesn't seem to be as spiritual.

Hm, I don't remember mention of Don's physical strength in any comic. The Turtles all had the exact same build in most of the comics until recent years--and Don was not the second biggest. However he was the second biggest in build in the 1990 movie. He also did get kind of spiritual in some issues of Mirage, and he was definitely tied with Leo for most philosophical. Maybe more so.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Mikey- The heart and soul of the group. Does he really have a weakness though? In the comics, I can't think of any. Just because we really don't see him kicking Shredder's ass, or building an intricate computer, doesn't mean he can't. I just found him one of those who just goes with the flow, and he is probably more at peace with himself, his surroundings and the world as a whole. He might even be a bit more on the spiritual side than Leo is. But his outgoing personality is I think his biggest strength. I mean, he's even Raph's best buddy in the comics, right? That's gotta say something about the guy.

I think he was not portrayed as much of anything at first. He was the least important Turtle for sure. Also in the later City at War issues. He usually got injured first. But he did seem pretty at peace, pretty go with the flow an friendly and outgoing. I think the BFF thing with Raph was abandoned fairly early on because Casey showed up, but Mikey and Raph are usually close in various mediums. I never saw him portrayed as spiritual or a deep thinker really--that doesn't mean he wasn't, just that he wasn't shown as it. He was never officially the youngest, but he acted that way in that he took a back seat during all the arguments and just went with the flow.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Raph seems to be almost just like his brothers while at the same time, almost the exact opposite. Leo-he's shown as nearly as good as a fighter, but he lacks Leo's inner peace. He makes up for it by having the closest friendship with Casey and Mikey. Mikey, he's not as spiritual as Mikey, and again, doesn't share the same peace within, but he does share Mikey's outgoing personality, even though he won't admit it. And he has been shown in the comics as liking to tinker with engine, like Donnie does with most mechanic, technical stuff, and they even share to a slight degree that feeling of being alone although their tempers are about as contrasting as one could get.

Indeed... sometimes it's hard to tell who is the real outsider of the team--Don or Raph. (Actually I guess someone could argue that each Turtle is an outsider sometimes.) I think that Peter Laird basically is Donatello so when he wrote Don was more of the outsider because he thinks he's the smartest. I think that Raph embodied whatever the writers wanted him to be. He was always the most violent and quick to throw himself into a fight, but guest writers wrote him as very thoughtful and angsty and feeling separate from his brothers, while other times he was the least likely to overthink stuff.