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Old 08-31-2017, 02:20 PM   #41
Andrew NDB
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They definitely never did, but games like that are equivalent to indie comics. It's foolish to compare them to the big 2, but in their class they perform very well. I dunno why you insist there isn't a market for them, you're outta yer element!
Oh, there's a niche market for them, sure, which is nicely offset by the next to nothing budgets of these.

Where people are fooling themselves, I see, is this idea that some kind of Final Fight clone/Turtles in Time Again new TMNT game in 2017 is going to put TMNT back on the map with video games and video gamers at large. It's not, not remotely. It's going to placate the people in their 30s and 40s that miss that soothing "simpler time" where it was OK that every game was a 2-button Final Fight knockoff. It'd make a modest profit, but nothing to write home about and would connect with exactly 0% of newer, younger video gamers. Maybe as a cell phone game with at least a little bit of substance to it.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:16 PM   #42
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And then on the other end of the spectrum you have people who keep wishing for some big AAA Ninja Turtles game, like Arkham! Like it's ever going to happen.

There's a happy medium where a good Ninja Turtles game belongs, it's just no developer has found it yet.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:25 PM   #43
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Oh, there's a niche market for them, sure, which is nicely offset by the next to nothing budgets of these.

Where people are fooling themselves, I see, is this idea that some kind of Final Fight clone/Turtles in Time Again new TMNT game in 2017 is going to put TMNT back on the map with video games and video gamers at large. It's not, not remotely. It's going to placate the people in their 30s and 40s that miss that soothing "simpler time" where it was OK that every game was a 2-button Final Fight knockoff. It'd make a modest profit, but nothing to write home about and would connect with exactly 0% of newer, younger video gamers. Maybe as a cell phone game with at least a little bit of substance to it.
Who really thinks that, though? I think the argument has simply been that it would be very well received by indie game players & most TMNT fans. Not that it's gonna be a sponge for soaking up the COD crowd or something. That's just silly.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:25 PM   #44
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I think people are just unaware how popular indie 2D games like Shovel Knight, Shantae, etc. have been for years. As well as new 2D versions of old franchises like Sonic Mania, Megaman 9 and 10, Metroid II remake, New Super Mario Bros, etc.

To say there's no interest in old-school 2D type games is just plain wrong. These games light up the sales charts constantly. We even got the return of Donkey Kong Country on Wii and Wii-U with two sequels that were critically acclaimed.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:47 PM   #45
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There are more incarnations of Batman and Telltale is doing there own take on the origin. It's more so the specifics that are different.
I think Telltale could make a good TMNT game, there games are story driven, and TMNT does have good stories that they can tell.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:02 PM   #46
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As cool as that sounds, you're completely missing the point.

What I'm saying is that Batman has had a lot more incarnations than the turtles do and they also alter certain aspects of the origin. I brought up Telltale because they made a lot of noticeable changes to that version.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:06 AM   #47
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Who really thinks that, though? I think the argument has simply been that it would be very well received by indie game players & most TMNT fans. Not that it's gonna be a sponge for soaking up the COD crowd or something. That's just silly.
Apparently at least a few folks around here. That's all I'm saying.

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And then on the other end of the spectrum you have people who keep wishing for some big AAA Ninja Turtles game, like Arkham! Like it's ever going to happen.

There's a happy medium where a good Ninja Turtles game belongs, it's just no developer has found it yet.
And won't anytime soon. The last two forays, "Out of the Shadows" and "Mutants in Manhattan" both tanked. Though it's not entirely their fault... they just had a puzzling business model attached, possibly.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:13 AM   #48
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Let's be honest- they both sucked.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:23 AM   #49
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I think Telltale could make a good TMNT game, there games are story driven, and TMNT does have good stories that they can tell.
I'd be up for a Telltale version of the TMNT for sure!
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:29 PM   #50
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Of course we're not gonna see anything anytime soon. We don't even know who has the license, and we're likely to not even get that until Rise information starts coming out.

People are either expecting too much or too little from a new TMNT game, and that includes the developers and probably to a degree, myself. Like Cure said, a happy medium is where it's at.

Everyone seems to want a new brawler, and although there's still a market for them, they seem to be notoriously hard for developers to pin down what makes them entertaining. The last well-received brawler I can remember was Double Dragon Neon. That game had a good engine, was fun, and tapped nostalgia but more as a loving parody of brawlers and the 80s in general instead of just cutting and pasting certain elements. It's what Double Dragon 4 failed at hard... ArkSys just took the NES Double Dragons (which have aged horribly) and built new levels around the exact same structure. Likewise, TMNT: Arcade Attack tried so hard to invoke those familiar with the arcade games to the point where it's even in the bloody name... but they were like "Look! You can throw enemies at the screen! Foot Soldiers are different colors!" and then they didn't craft anything resembling a playable piece of software.

Honestly WayForward should have just taken what they did on DD Neon and make Danger of the Ooze a spiritual successor to that, instead of making it the most dull "Metroidvania" I've ever played.

Heading into other genres could be a viable option, but TMNT has not had a lot of success that way. The console/PC game based on the 2007 film wasn't critically acclaimed but it did well enough on certain platforms to hit the Greatest Hits and equivalent status. That's probably the best example of an attempt, and really it was just Prince of Persia Lite. Mutants in Manhattan tried to be Arkham but structured with levels... and just felt overambitious and incoherent (although I will say I still enjoyed it to a degree). Out of the Shadows was just a mess and didn't really know what it wanted to be.

Of course, the genre that this series revisits the most outside of brawlers, is fighting games. But again, there hasn't been a lot of critical success in that area either. The SNES Tournament Fighters is the only one that is widely considered to be "good" by any measure. And Activision missed the boat by skipping a "generation" of what had been tradition at that point. But then again looking at what fighters Activision has published in the past, maybe that's an act of mercy.... And as much as I really, really want a new TMNT fighter, you've got to have a team that understands the genre to make it worthwhile. Critically and/or commercially successful licensed fighters aren't impossible - see Capcom's (earlier) Marvel titles, NetherRealm's Injustice, and Ark Systems Works with the current darling (even though it's still in development), DragonBall FighterZ. But those have teams who have already cut their teeth on fighters again and again.

The important thing that both fans and developers need to realize though, is like pretty much anything, it can't be about what you want. It needs to be what the majority wants. And if that coincides with what you want, that's just serendipity.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Ninjinister View Post
Of course we're not gonna see anything anytime soon. We don't even know who has the license, and we're likely to not even get that until Rise information starts coming out.
Probably nobody right now. Up for grabs, and no video game company particularly wants it.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:15 PM   #52
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Honestly WayForward should have just taken what they did on DD Neon and make Danger of the Ooze a spiritual successor to that, instead of making it the most dull "Metroidvania" I've ever played.
Amen. How such a great company could do such a sub-par (to put it lightly) game is beyond me.
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Old 09-01-2017, 02:29 PM   #53
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Amen. How such a great company could do such a sub-par (to put it lightly) game is beyond me.
Probably cause they were given a short amount of time to make a new TMNT game, and that was the best they could do with the time they had.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:37 PM   #54
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Maybe, but I suspect if they'd gone a different route, they could've used that time more productively. Much props for how well they nailed the Nick series style & all, but the gameplay's gotta be up to snuff. Shoulda went with a pixel art style, for starters, as it's what they do best.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:44 PM   #55
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Maybe, but I suspect if they'd gone a different route, they could've used that time more productively. Much props for how well they nailed the Nick series style & all, but the gameplay's gotta be up to snuff. Shoulda went with a pixel art style, for starters, as it's what they do best.
True, but they were probably working on another game while at the same time doing that one, that's the problem these days, when a developer is given more then one game to work on, one of those games will suffer, cause the developer would be spending more time on one game then the other, especially if its a game that isn't a license property.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:39 PM   #56
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I want a like, dungeon crawler. 4 player co-op, like Diablo. Raphael is the tank, drawing all the aggro. Leonardo provides buffs and debuffs. Michaelangelo gets in close for high damage, but has low defense. Donatello is the "mage" with elemental ninja stars and heals and stuff.

I dunno, could be neat, haha.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:41 PM   #57
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To be fair Batman is a licenced property as well.
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Batman is a license property too, but the thing is, the developers working on those games respect the source material, since its a very well known property that requires a lot of attention.

TMNT is a license property, but has the stigma that its a kids property, which is why they don't pay much attention to the source material, since there are so many different incarnations of it, they just come up with there own, Mutants in Manhattan is its own thing, even though the art looks inspired by IDW.
It is sure, but don't forget that the Arkham series is done in house, they're done by WB themselves (or at least one of their subsidiaries) and they own DC as well, not only that but the devs are huge fans of the property so they'll try their best at doing them justice, so you have more money invested because it's something they have all the interest in doing it properly + huge fans working on it, so it equals to a bether final product.

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Oh, there's a niche market for them, sure, which is nicely offset by the next to nothing budgets of these.

Where people are fooling themselves, I see, is this idea that some kind of Final Fight clone/Turtles in Time Again new TMNT game in 2017 is going to put TMNT back on the map with video games and video gamers at large. It's not, not remotely. It's going to placate the people in their 30s and 40s that miss that soothing "simpler time" where it was OK that every game was a 2-button Final Fight knockoff. It'd make a modest profit, but nothing to write home about and would connect with exactly 0% of newer, younger video gamers. Maybe as a cell phone game with at least a little bit of substance to it.
No one here is expecting that a retro game would do the numbers of a AC or a COD game, you're the one that's adamant that a game to be successfull has to make millions. What you don't seem to understand is that RETRO is the new hot thing on the video game world, and a retro style TMNT game COULD be a huge hit, not just for the "people in their 30s and 40s that miss that soothing "simpler time" but for everyone.

Again, for the past couple of months, for almost every week, the best selling game on most of the digital platforms (STEAM/PSN/XBOX LIVE) is a retro/retro styled game, so saying this is a niche market just proves how ignorant and out of your element you really are, and if you want numbers just look them up, lots of places you can check this info.
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #58
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It is sure, but don't forget that the Arkham series is done in house, they're done by WB themselves (or at least one of their subsidiaries) and they own DC as well, not only that but the devs are huge fans of the property so they'll try their best at doing them justice, so you have more money invested because it's something they have all the interest in doing it properly + huge fans working on it, so it equals to a bether final product.
Essentially, either this, or folks like the Sonic Mania crew, who were fans + they knew how game design works.
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:19 PM   #59
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OK, shut me up... show me the numbers, man. I want to see where Mega Man 9 or 10 or Double Dragon 4 outsold the latest Assassin's Creed or Arkham Knight or whatever.
I didn't say they did. I'm saying you're expecting a retro made game to outsell triple A titles at the height of their popularity? I mean really???

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I think people are just unaware how popular indie 2D games like Shovel Knight, Shantae, etc. have been for years. As well as new 2D versions of old franchises like Sonic Mania, Megaman 9 and 10, Metroid II remake, New Super Mario Bros, etc.

To say there's no interest in old-school 2D type games is just plain wrong. These games light up the sales charts constantly. We even got the return of Donkey Kong Country on Wii and Wii-U with two sequels that were critically acclaimed.
Yeah I mean it's very short sighted of Andrew to say that.

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I'd be up for a Telltale version of the TMNT for sure!
No thank you, they'd be no gameplay. I could just watch it on YouTube.

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Who really thinks that, though? I think the argument has simply been that it would be very well received by indie game players & most TMNT fans. Not that it's gonna be a sponge for soaking up the COD crowd or something. That's just silly.
The thing is you have ask whether you want a triple A title with the TMNT name? If it sells badly there wouldn't be a game for years but what if it does well? Well every year they keep releasing subpar sequels and with so much money spent on them the slowly dwindling sales will mean that no one wants to go near that franchise again to create games. Andrew wants Arkham TMNT which would make it a hit to begin with but if it turns into COD or Assassin's Creed TMNT could be worse off in the long run.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:19 AM   #60
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Yeah for sure ... I don't think anyone here has ever alluded to the fact that a retro style game would do insane numbers in terms of popular modern games at the retail price of $59.99 or higher these days.

Those old TMNT 2D brawlers are so universally praised that a really good retro game at the right price point with the look and aesthetic of the Konami games of old ... but feels like a genuine successor would certainly be something fans young and old would be into. If you are into those types of games at all is another question, I guess.

I wonder though if the next likely game we'll get will be a lighter release of something based on the upcoming Nick cartoon. Although like most of have alluded to ... the last two games severely under performed so who knows when the next title may even get released.

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Essentially, either this, or folks like the Sonic Mania crew, who were fans + they knew how game design works.
That's what I would love!
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