Why was Rise cancelled?

[CyberCubed]

It's also kinda sad that black April will always be remembered for this incarnation alone, I'm pretty sure April will be white again in the next cartoon. They'll probably always associate black April with "Rise" and assume it didn't work.

Back to the basics.

[IndigoErth]

Hm, I always figured it was just a shirt she has on.



Can I just add, why didn't they make a Mayhem plush? I mean come on... That and I'll always be annoyed there was no Ice Cream Kitty plush (edit: or figure!). Mayhem had more potential than what he was given. But isn't that the way of Rise.

[Roseangelo]

The issue I had during Rise is one that has happened before, but it's a mistake they keep making.

When a company commits to a show, the industry seems to demand that all merchandising needs to reflect that show and that show only. This worked out fine for the 2K3 show and the 2012 show, because those shows used "standard" turtle designs. If a parent needed to buy their kid a Ninja Turtles toy or, in my favorite example, a Ninja Turtles halloween costume, great, no problem, you've got lots of great choices.

But then Fast Forward came along and the turtle designs changed to crap with weird gear (markings) over the turtles. Now if you wanted a halloween costume, it looked like this:



Then the 2012 show happens and those are nice, standard designs and all the merch looks good.

Then the 2014 movie happens... oh god.

Luckily, the Bay movies didn't take over all the merch; it co-existed with the 2012 merch. But now when you went Halloween costume shopping, this was one of the options:



LEGO dropped the TMNT license after supporting the 2014 movie, and I'm sure there were others.

So now the 2012 show ends and Rise comes to replace it. Look, I think it's neat that they got creative with the Turtle designs for this show, but now you've got Turtles that don't look like the Ninja Turtles parents know, so when Johnny asks for a Ninja Turtles toy they don't find what they think that is supposed to look like. And here is what you get in the Halloween costume aisle:



(There's actually a pretty interesting range of Rise costumes if you google these, all of which are terrible.)

Meanwhile, there is a small trickle of what Nickelodeon calls "retro" merchandise, which is generally ok. But it tends to be in specialty stores or in a different department other than the basic toy aisle. And I think they've even had some retro Halloween costumes (ok, just did a quick google search and they seem to only be available in adult sizes).

Anyways, this is a lot of words to say that they took a creative risk and they KNEW they were taking a creative risk. None of the vocal reaction to the show should have been a surprise to them. BUT THEN THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. They green lit a second season (and made a HUGE press release about that) before the show ever aired and after they knew people didn't really like how it looked. And then they went and gave it a freaking Netflix movie. THINK ABOUT THE WASTED OPPORTUNITY. No one is going to care about that when it comes out and Netflix is going to be all, "Thanks, but no thanks" on more TMNT projects.

It's fine to take a creative risk with a show, but it's stupid to put all of your turtle eggs in the one basket when there's no reason that you can't have generic TMNT merch on the shelf alongside some Rise-specific toys because hopefully some kids do like and want that.

AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE RISE FOR CHANGING THE TMNT ICE CREAM.

ahem.

[Leo656]

You're really good at this.

[oldmanwinters]

Well said, Rose!

[Allsparrow]

Some people like coffee, some people love coffee, some need a non-fat latte with decaf espresso and cinnamon drizzle. Grabbing a coffee sometime can be seen as a date, or an excuse to friend zone/brush off somebody.

Turtles, like coffee, covers a lot of ground, and just like coffee, it can be made strong, or weak. Some people are addicts, and so you want that main-lined hard stuff, you want the purest, most Mirageiest experience possible. Some are so bored of the same old, they need it to be reimagined and deconstructed. If Seth is looking to please the base, just make the thing they never got, distilled, purified, Mirage. If he wants to go after Gen Alpha, mock it, shave down the edges, gentrify and liquify it into a new beast.

Preacher was pretty good. The Boys is pretty good. Seth seemed to know how to translate those to series, without losing what made them cool. So long as he doesn’t inject too much of himself into the series, it should be good.

[Autbot_Benz]

Rose nailed it on the head "chef's kiss"

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I agree with what Rose said as well. Though I'm sure Nickelodeon wants to forget about this show even before the movie comes out.

[CyberCubed]

Still hoping the 2012 series gets revisited for a movie. Ciro said he gave a number of pitches to Nick to bring it back for a movie as a follow-up to the series. I hope it happens.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

You'd think Nickelodeon would just go with that instead of the announced CGI film by Seth Rogen.

[IndigoErth]

I dunno, Nick still at least knows that 2012 is popular enough that when they recently licensed some face masks for charity they used 2012 for it.

edit: If Nick can't really go and give us the kind of show we dream of, at least not on their channels... I at least still wouldn't mind a 2D series that is essentially an aged-up version and continuation of the 2012 Turtles. Edit the designs and art style to freshen it up, sure, but still keep the looks of them mildly recognizable enough as an older version of those Turtles.

Nick managed a popular one in their first try, but may be hard to repeat that success if they remain determined to go too far off the rails.

[shredder orokusaki]

mY NEXT series will start ifn a few months and it will be as seiorus as 2012 and 2003 series were. No suprise that it failed. I was not fighting the turtles as much as the previous series, there wasnt aliens, i didnt have any good and powerful henchmen like Hun Rocksteady bebop and Tiger claw, it was much more kiddie and funny than even the 1987 series was... That why it failed but evrytihng will be good in the next series that will start in a few months and will be dark and serious like the 2012 and 2003 series. The failurp roved that such kiddle and funy series cant be succesful.

[Slash-Dash]

as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

correct me if I'm wrong.

[srmff]

I don't think that I've ever come across Rise merchandise in Ireland. Of course, I'm sure that the toy stores used to stock them. However, in the supermarkets I've only ever seen TMNT 2012 cakes and birthday cards.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Slash-Dash

as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

correct me if I'm wrong.

Nickandmore!
@nickandmore
?
46m
That was the TV show's finale. The second season, which was ordered in July 2018 before the show had even premiered, was apparently cut from the original 26 episodes to 13.

Susanna

@SuspiciousAnna
? 43m
Welp it?s done! It?s been a crazy two years of animating on #rottmnt and I have loved every second of it! Thank you guys so much for the constant and unwavering support!?? THANK YOU!!! #rottmntfinale #rottmntspoilers


ant ward
@Ward_Ant
? 19m
Hope everyone enjoyed the #rottmntfinale -Thanks for being amazing fans. Thanks to the entire crew for being amazing humans.

Those are all people who worked on Rise

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, the posts of those behind it made it pretty clear, but anyone waiting for the words "it's canceled" probably aren't going to get it, because being straight forward doesn't seem to be a thing that shows and whatnot do anymore. I hate that companies do that though. (Hell, I still want Josh Gates' Destination Truth to come back since they never said a word to suggest it was over and never explained it -- and why not just tell us?? -- but after a while it was safe to assume, esp since he moved on to other series. Sucks that companies do this.)

Originally Posted by srmff

However, in the supermarkets I've only ever seen TMNT 2012 cakes and birthday cards.

I work for a card company and while only one of my stores I service sells a TMNT card, can confirm it has also remained the 2012 version.

[Galactus]

Hardly anyone was watching the show or buying the toys.

As for why hardly anyone was doing these things I imagine it just came too soon after the 2012 show to really hook people in. Most kids who hadn't outgrown the cgi show wouldn't take to a new version and there hadn't been a significant turnover of new kids coming to the franchise fresh.


Beyond that I think there are certain concepts that just don't work well for this franchise. New non-Shredder central villains (Dregg, Dragonlord, Draxum), magic and techno weapons, excessive accessorising, giant 'roided up turtles and this show did all of that.

Defenders of Rise will say that fans don't like change (and that is true) but this wasn't new or trying anything different. It was taking a bunch of stuff that time again has either been met with mixed reactions or outright flopped with fans and doing it all in one show.

I kinda get why Nickelodeon would do it. People often obsess about how kids will be able to tell the turtles apart so accessorising and giving them all different proportions sounds like a good idea on paper. It's always a problem that few versions of TMNT can get past the Shredder as the main villain only Archie and 2K3 really managed it, even Mirage kinda struggles with City at War the last universally considered good story after Saki's final defeat in Return to New York. I get why coming up with new villains is a popular idea but it rarely ever works out well. I just feel that the powers that be always look at these issues and think that 'this time it will work'.

[IndigoErth]

I feel that some new concepts could work fine for TMNT, but if you're going that route you really can't half-ass it and expect it to work out, and that has happened all too frequently.

When it came down to it, for example, what was the point of the mystic weapons really? Just because? They never really played much part in the show other than "look a flashy thing." If the explanation for something can be summed up as "just because," that is sort of a rather lousy reason.

After all, the 2003 Turtles got mystic weapons too. But it was made to matter that they got them, that they'd earned them, it mattered that Leo came away disappointed and probably wondering why he didn't and how it impacts him. I realize these are very different shows, but even some hyper, candy coated comedy could at least have a decent enough excuse and reason to have them other than they saw shiny objects and stole them without a thought or care.

Sure, I'm probably giving it more thought than fans of Rise care for and would hand wave it off, but if a show runs by the premise that you're not supposed to think about it, then, well, I guess it also died by that motto, too, didn't it.


Draxum had potential, but they again just stuck with scratching the surface then dropped the ball in favor of a Shredder that never really got to pose that much of a threat to the world beyond the TMNT. They could have gone into more detail and given his existence and history in the mystic city more depth, and not forgotten about the reason he was a bad guy after a short time. I really wouldn't mind seeing someone else's deeper, more impactful take on Draxum someday.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

The issue I had during Rise is one that has happened before, but it's a mistake they keep making.

When a company commits to a show, the industry seems to demand that all merchandising needs to reflect that show and that show only. This worked out fine for the 2K3 show and the 2012 show, because those shows used "standard" turtle designs. If a parent needed to buy their kid a Ninja Turtles toy or, in my favorite example, a Ninja Turtles halloween costume, great, no problem, you've got lots of great choices.

But then Fast Forward came along and the turtle designs changed to crap with weird gear (markings) over the turtles. Now if you wanted a halloween costume, it looked like this:

https://crazyforcostumes.com/ProdImages/DIS6693.jpg

Then the 2012 show happens and those are nice, standard designs and all the merch looks good.

Then the 2014 movie happens... oh god.

Luckily, the Bay movies didn't take over all the merch; it co-existed with the 2012 merch. But now when you went Halloween costume shopping, this was one of the options:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uMkAA...Bas/s-l400.jpg

LEGO dropped the TMNT license after supporting the 2014 movie, and I'm sure there were others.

So now the 2012 show ends and Rise comes to replace it. Look, I think it's neat that they got creative with the Turtle designs for this show, but now you've got Turtles that don't look like the Ninja Turtles parents know, so when Johnny asks for a Ninja Turtles toy they don't find what they think that is supposed to look like. And here is what you get in the Halloween costume aisle:

https://spirit.scene7.com/is/image/Spirit/07559966-a

(There's actually a pretty interesting range of Rise costumes if you google these, all of which are terrible.)

Meanwhile, there is a small trickle of what Nickelodeon calls "retro" merchandise, which is generally ok. But it tends to be in specialty stores or in a different department other than the basic toy aisle. And I think they've even had some retro Halloween costumes (ok, just did a quick google search and they seem to only be available in adult sizes).

Anyways, this is a lot of words to say that they took a creative risk and they KNEW they were taking a creative risk. None of the vocal reaction to the show should have been a surprise to them. BUT THEN THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. They green lit a second season (and made a HUGE press release about that) before the show ever aired and after they knew people didn't really like how it looked. And then they went and gave it a freaking Netflix movie. THINK ABOUT THE WASTED OPPORTUNITY. No one is going to care about that when it comes out and Netflix is going to be all, "Thanks, but no thanks" on more TMNT projects.

It's fine to take a creative risk with a show, but it's stupid to put all of your turtle eggs in the one basket when there's no reason that you can't have generic TMNT merch on the shelf alongside some Rise-specific toys because hopefully some kids do like and want that.

AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE RISE FOR CHANGING THE TMNT ICE CREAM.

ahem.

I'm kinda reminded of the 87 series episode raphael meets his match when a guy told raph his tmnt costume was better than raphs.

[Torterra]

Besides the toy-lines Nick just also treated it like crap. I mean only show the newest episode then go right back to Spongebob or Loud House with the occasional showing of the previous episode before the newest episode come on (Although they did that with the 2012 series too). I watched a video about Rise from TheCartoonGamer 8000 and he said YTV treated Rise a whole lot better than Nick showing it multiple times on the channel. Having pretty cool fan art promos showing fan art from fans that liked the show, making promos with actual turtles. Seriously Canada treats their shows a whole lot better than we do.