Why is this adaptation overlooked by merchandise, etc?

Konchadunga · 05-30-2019, 08:59 PM

I apologize for asking what is quite possibly one of the most discussed things here, but I've been looking around TMNT merchandise and games, and for whatever reason 4Kids TMNT gets no love. This is very noteworthy to me because at least every other major incarnation does.

This wasn't always the case. It used to be that while the Fred Wolf cartoon was running, just about every adaptation of, and reference to, the brand took after that. Likewise, The Next Mutation got to be the brand's center, however briefly. Then it was this show, for as long as it was on.

Since then, though, things have changed. We still get new shows with merchandising pushes, of course but these days we're also getting callbacks to past versions in merchandise. The movies do, even if the first is the only one many people like these days. Even the Mirage series, which seemed rather unknown to the public during the run of the first three TV series, gets toys and video game appearances alongside merch based on the more childish adaptations. Yet again, the 4Kids turtles are absent--so why?

My best theory would be that the increasing popularity of the aforementioned Mirage series makes this show look redundant. Maybe they felt the need to hush up about it back when the Fred Wolf show was big with children, whether "they" means "Eastman and Laird", executives trying to persuade Eastman and Laird how to maintain a good brand image, or both. Maybe once Peter Laird was able to secure more control, he decided to make the Mirage series more well-known, although I don't remember much presence of it while the 4Kids show was running. Since then, though, now that everyone who was a child during both shows is an adult, and furthermore has access to the Internet, maybe the powers that be feel that there's no more point to keeping the Mirage series under rugs; plus it has its own nostalgic fanbase that gets vocal in reaction to how obviously nothing else is going to duplicate it.

The 4Kids show was noteworthy compared to the Fred Wolf show (and especially the even goofier derivatives, like the Coming Out of Their Shells Tour and The Next Mutation) for how much more closely it followed the Mirage series, but it could only go so far and still keep its child-friendliness. Thus a lot of what are arguably the better parts of 4Kids turtles are also arguably worse versions of the Mirage series. Back when people were too young for Mirage, that didn't matter; it was 4Kids TMNT or nothing, but now that they're adults, I'm assuming the people nostalgic for its better moments, or who prefer a more adventurous take on TMNT, go right to Mirage.

I could be wrong, though, although causes aren't mutually exclusive. I also read that ownership of the 4Kids series is split between several companies, and thus maybe callbacks bring up issues of rights. Not sure, though.

Anyhow, what are your theories?

*Prowler* · 05-30-2019, 09:09 PM

Because of two factors:

1. It wasn't as popular as the Fred Wolf series or the Nick series. A lot of people to this day have no idea that this cartoon series existed. And even the tie-in CGI movie that came out in 2007 was barely talked about, and people assumed it was the return of the Turtles after the FW series or The Next Mutation.

2. It's not an old enough show for people to have nostalgia for yet. Unlike Fred Wolf which aired in the late 80s and early 90s, and we all know how a lot of people aged 25-40 have a lot of nostalgia for those eras. Hence all the 80s and 90s revivals we've been seeing this decade.

*snake* · 05-30-2019, 09:18 PM

There's really not enough demand beyond the people here who want merch. The 4kids show isn't well known to the general public in the way that FW and 2K12 are.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 05-31-2019, 10:13 AM

I think many people who haven't been into TMNT from February 2003, confuse the 4 Kids and Nickelodeon Series, and mistake them for one entire cartoon.

The-Shredder · 05-31-2019, 01:27 PM

The thing is, you could find plenty of merchandise for the show from 2003-2009. There were school folders, backpacks, trading cards, Valentine's Day cards, balls, shirts, socks, gloves, Mighty Beanz, etc. Even Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer got some stuff, just not as much. I have a Back to the Sewer RC ATV with 2007 movie Leo molded onto it. By that point the movie designs were used for all the toys. In 2013, I got a popsicle with 2003 packaging. If I remember correctly, until the 2012 Nick show, the 2003 design was used for Halloween costumes.

The only stuff I can think of that we got since 2009 are a few DVDs, Seasons 1-3 for streaming, the Dreamwave comics digital release, the History of Leonardo Playmates set with worse versions of the 2002 figure and the 2006 Fast Forward figure, and Cyber Shredder and Sliver HeroClix game pieces. I doubt we'll see anything substantial until the 2020s.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-31-2019, 01:41 PM

Because there's no Beebop, Rocksteady and Krang. And we can't have that. No other reason.

And 4Kids is oceans apart from Mirage in tone AND story (even character, in most cases), apart from maybe the Rat King episode.

*CyberCubed* · 05-31-2019, 06:48 PM

The 2k3 series is very well known. The official Nick TMNT twitter promotes it all the time and all the replies are people begging for DVD or blu-ray boxsets.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 06-01-2019, 02:14 PM

While aimed at children, many of the fans were in their 20's when the 4 Kids series was first played on TV. They were mostly interested in watching it, not buying toys and other merchandise products.

*IndigoErth* · 06-01-2019, 03:02 PM

If Nick owns it now, they really aught to just put it on tv. If they fear it might be Turtle overkill, then just air it at a later hour for older viewers (including older kids, not just teens and adults), or another Viacom channel if need be.

There really is no reason this show can't still get some love just because it would be existing in reruns. (Heck, most of Nick's programming each day is reruns.) And to many who haven't seen it, it would be brand new. (Sans outdated technology terms, but yeah...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The 2k3 series is very well known. The official Nick TMNT twitter promotes it all the time and all the replies are people begging for DVD or blu-ray boxsets.

Which makes it so weird that they use it there, but elsewhere... nothing.

But glad to hear that people are bugging them for a boxed set.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 06-02-2019, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

(Sans outdated technology terms, but yeah...)

Who cares about outdated technology? Didn't the turtles watch videotapes with Space Heroes in Scroll of the Demodragon in the Nickelodeon Series?

*IndigoErth* · 06-02-2019, 09:33 AM

Huh? I think you left out a word or two?

And terms, not tech.

i.e. In the Back to the Sewers season where the show tries to sound cool and modern with all this "cyber" talk that sounds just a little silly today.

Old tech is not an issue and makes sense since they lack the ability to purchase all the latest things and can only use what they can get their hands on and refurbish or find another use for.

05-30-2019, 08:59 PM	#1
Konchadunga Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 912	Why is this adaptation overlooked by merchandise, etc? I apologize for asking what is quite possibly one of the most discussed things here, but I've been looking around TMNT merchandise and games, and for whatever reason 4Kids TMNT gets no love. This is very noteworthy to me because at least every other major incarnation does. This wasn't always the case. It used to be that while the Fred Wolf cartoon was running, just about every adaptation of, and reference to, the brand took after that. Likewise, The Next Mutation got to be the brand's center, however briefly. Then it was this show, for as long as it was on. Since then, though, things have changed. We still get new shows with merchandising pushes, of course but these days we're also getting callbacks to past versions in merchandise. The movies do, even if the first is the only one many people like these days. Even the Mirage series, which seemed rather unknown to the public during the run of the first three TV series, gets toys and video game appearances alongside merch based on the more childish adaptations. Yet again, the 4Kids turtles are absent--so why? My best theory would be that the increasing popularity of the aforementioned Mirage series makes this show look redundant. Maybe they felt the need to hush up about it back when the Fred Wolf show was big with children, whether "they" means "Eastman and Laird", executives trying to persuade Eastman and Laird how to maintain a good brand image, or both. Maybe once Peter Laird was able to secure more control, he decided to make the Mirage series more well-known, although I don't remember much presence of it while the 4Kids show was running. Since then, though, now that everyone who was a child during both shows is an adult, and furthermore has access to the Internet, maybe the powers that be feel that there's no more point to keeping the Mirage series under rugs; plus it has its own nostalgic fanbase that gets vocal in reaction to how obviously nothing else is going to duplicate it. The 4Kids show was noteworthy compared to the Fred Wolf show (and especially the even goofier derivatives, like the Coming Out of Their Shells Tour and The Next Mutation) for how much more closely it followed the Mirage series, but it could only go so far and still keep its child-friendliness. Thus a lot of what are arguably the better parts of 4Kids turtles are also arguably worse versions of the Mirage series. Back when people were too young for Mirage, that didn't matter; it was 4Kids TMNT or nothing, but now that they're adults, I'm assuming the people nostalgic for its better moments, or who prefer a more adventurous take on TMNT, go right to Mirage. I could be wrong, though, although causes aren't mutually exclusive. I also read that ownership of the 4Kids series is split between several companies, and thus maybe callbacks bring up issues of rights. Not sure, though. Anyhow, what are your theories? __________________

05-31-2019, 01:41 PM	#6
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,279	Because there's no Beebop, Rocksteady and Krang. And we can't have that. No other reason. And 4Kids is oceans apart from Mirage in tone AND story (even character, in most cases), apart from maybe the Rat King episode. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

05-30-2019, 09:09 PM	#2
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	Because of two factors: 1. It wasn't as popular as the Fred Wolf series or the Nick series. A lot of people to this day have no idea that this cartoon series existed. And even the tie-in CGI movie that came out in 2007 was barely talked about, and people assumed it was the return of the Turtles after the FW series or The Next Mutation. 2. It's not an old enough show for people to have nostalgia for yet. Unlike Fred Wolf which aired in the late 80s and early 90s, and we all know how a lot of people aged 25-40 have a lot of nostalgia for those eras. Hence all the 80s and 90s revivals we've been seeing this decade.

05-30-2019, 09:18 PM	#3
snake Disgusting Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Outer Heaven Posts: 12,230	There's really not enough demand beyond the people here who want merch. The 4kids show isn't well known to the general public in the way that FW and 2K12 are.

05-31-2019, 10:13 AM	#4
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,155	I think many people who haven't been into TMNT from February 2003, confuse the 4 Kids and Nickelodeon Series, and mistake them for one entire cartoon.

05-31-2019, 01:27 PM	#5
The-Shredder Hench Mutant Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 448	The thing is, you could find plenty of merchandise for the show from 2003-2009. There were school folders, backpacks, trading cards, Valentine's Day cards, balls, shirts, socks, gloves, Mighty Beanz, etc. Even Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer got some stuff, just not as much. I have a Back to the Sewer RC ATV with 2007 movie Leo molded onto it. By that point the movie designs were used for all the toys. In 2013, I got a popsicle with 2003 packaging. If I remember correctly, until the 2012 Nick show, the 2003 design was used for Halloween costumes. The only stuff I can think of that we got since 2009 are a few DVDs, Seasons 1-3 for streaming, the Dreamwave comics digital release, the History of Leonardo Playmates set with worse versions of the 2002 figure and the 2006 Fast Forward figure, and Cyber Shredder and Sliver HeroClix game pieces. I doubt we'll see anything substantial until the 2020s.

05-31-2019, 06:48 PM	#7
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,057	The 2k3 series is very well known. The official Nick TMNT twitter promotes it all the time and all the replies are people begging for DVD or blu-ray boxsets.

06-01-2019, 02:14 PM	#8
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,155	While aimed at children, many of the fans were in their 20's when the 4 Kids series was first played on TV. They were mostly interested in watching it, not buying toys and other merchandise products.

06-02-2019, 09:33 AM	#11
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Huh? I think you left out a word or two? And terms, not tech. i.e. In the Back to the Sewers season where the show tries to sound cool and modern with all this "cyber" talk that sounds just a little silly today. Old tech is not an issue and makes sense since they lack the ability to purchase all the latest things and can only use what they can get their hands on and refurbish or find another use for.