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View Poll Results: Which series did you like most?
Next Mutation 11 28.21%
Platinum Dunes Movies 13 33.33%
Rise of the TMNT 9 23.08%
I liked all 3 or at least 2 of the 3 (specify) 6 15.38%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-08-2020, 09:02 AM   #41
CyberCubed
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Would it be too cruel to add the Image series to this discussion? I mean it only lasted 23 issues and was only granted a resolution 20 years later because it was reprinted. And if financial failure isn't enough, I must admit that I never found the series all that engaging. Quite a lot of it feels less like a continuation of Volume 2 and more like a Savage Dragon tie-in that happens to feature the turtles.
Image was short but it fullfilled its purpose during 1997-2000 when Mirage wasn't publishing any comics. And Peter Laird unofficially acknowledged it when he named his next series "Volume 4" instead of Volume 3 because he acknowledged Image as that. Likewise a lot of elements of Image continued into the second wave of Tales like Leatherhead's Utrom friend Dr. X, Leaherhead going through bouts of losing his mind and becoming feral, and Karai's ambiguous truce with the Turtles in early Vol. 4.

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Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise. And even if it actually was bad, there is no way it's as offensively bad as PD or TNM.
Yeah it's a departure from standard TMNT show, but I think it was also too silly at times (even for this franchise) that took people out of it. If the whole show was written in the tone of the 3 part finale, it would have been better received overall. Besides that having watched the whole thing, I find it funny he whole show is pretty much based on Season 5 of the 4kids series, the Ninja Tribunal arc. They literally turned all of Season 5 of the 2k3 series into an entire show. Turtles with mystic weapons, an ancient demon Shredder, an underground city, etc.
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Old 12-08-2020, 01:38 PM   #42
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Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise.
It's rather strange to me why you think Rise isn't bad for those reasons yet the OT is.
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Old 12-08-2020, 02:12 PM   #43
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It's rather strange to me why you think Rise isn't bad for those reasons yet the OT is.
That isn't really my point. The big difference between Fred Wolf and Rise is that Rise has generally good animation, some good jokes and some basic understanding tension. Fred Wolf really has none of that, Fred Wolf is just a boring, ugly and unfunny piece of crap. The main reason people defend FW over Rise is mainly nostalgia but it pretty does what Rise does except much worse.

That is not to say either approach is a good idea. TMNT should not be about comedy, over-the-top vehicles, countless mutants, incompetent villains, etc. That just turns the franchise into a toy commercial and the characters lose what makes them compelling.

These are two different arguments to be had. Approach and excecution are not the same thing. You can have the wrong approach but still do it with passion. If you want a concrete example, I wouldn't want either show to be the primary source of inspiration for any TMNT material going forward but if I had to watch a random episode of Rise or a random episode of FW, I'd go for Rise because I would prefer decent pacing and a fight scene that isn't animated at 4fps.

Please understand that the arguments about the direction and end product are not the same.
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:30 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by neatoman View Post
Would it be too cruel to add the Image series to this discussion? I mean it only lasted 23 issues and was only granted a resolution 20 years later because it was reprinted. And if financial failure isn't enough, I must admit that I never found the series all that engaging. Quite a lot of it feels less like a continuation of Volume 2 and more like a Savage Dragon tie-in that happens to feature the turtles.



Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise. And even if it actually was bad, there is no way it's as offensively bad as PD or TNM.
I...really don't understand the sudden love people have for this show.

I've watched several episodes, including the multi-part finale. The show never seemed to outgrow its "LOL RANDOM" humor, and continually undercuts scenes with nonsense that's meant to be funny, and characters making wacky faces. Yes, they added in Shredder and other characters from the other incarnations, but I felt the show didn't do them any favors. Even as a strictly comedy, I feel like it failed on every front.

In the end, the show just felt like a Teen Titans Go rip-off with a coat of Ninja Turtles paint. People also seem to love the animation, and I see that cited as the main reason this show is a supposed masterpiece... Ugh. It's fluid, but it's used mostly to accentuate the characters making dumb expressions, so...I'm not really impressed with it.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:46 AM   #45
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Yeah it's definitely not for everyone, and the humor was more miss than hit for me, but I feel like the creators/animators/writers were really having fun with it, and I really liked the better eps.

The 2012 Nick show mixed seriousness with humor a lot better, many eps that were intended to be serious didn't have much humor at all and of course it was also very action oriented (the 2012 show actually has the best choreographed fight scenes outside the 2k3 series in animation), so it's a different type of humor.

It is what it is. And as I said before, it's kinda funny how the main plot of Rise just seemed to be entirely lifted from the Ninja Tribunal arc of the 2k3 series. You can just watch Season 5 of 2k3 and see almost the same story with variations.
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Old 12-09-2020, 01:59 PM   #46
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I agree with the it is what it is take. I can enjoy it for what it is. However, I would not want a future series to be like this one. Once I completed my binge watch, I did want to see more of it and it resulted in me finally wanting to see the Batman vs TMNT movie and get the 2012 seasons on DVD. I have to admit that I did enjoy this show but I wouldn't actively try to save the show like others are doing since I know that I would ultimately not want Rise to be the template for future shows.

I have noticed though that some Rise fans seem to love post about how the 2012 show is worse than Rise. It just comes across as Rise fans who desperately want they’re show to look good so instead of just praising it, they try to shoot down other versions of tmnt and point out their flaws. It sort of reminds me of how some shows can only feel like they've written a strong female character if she belittles the man she is working with like that Princess Leia cartoon where Han and Luke are made to look incompetent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xAc...l=StarWarsKids
Leia was fine as a strong enough character already without needing to make other characters look worse to make her look better in contrast.

I've seen lots of criticism for 2012 Splinter and how he was cold, controlling, abusive (definitely remember Rise Splinter smacking Leo, who calls himself Splinter's least favourite, twice regarding solving the city's rat problem and giving back chat about Splinter keeping secrets), never apologises (even though 2012 Splinter has) and is a worse teacher (Rise Splinter mainly just had them watch his movies). Rise Splinter did definitely improve but I wouldn't consider him a model parent by any means. Donnie was beyond excited to spend some time with Splinter in a father-son car competition. However Splinter had lied about his intent, which was to enter the Turtle Tank in a Y?kai demolition derby, and Donnie was genuinely upset and hurt by this deception. They're always so eager to get hugs from Splinter which would make it seem as if he's not very affectionate.

Others say that Rise April is better than 2012 April (have never really had strong feelings regarding April in any version). There's also criticism that the 2012 turtles are cold and hateful to each other. If you actually watched the show, they clearly don't hate each other and are often showing affection to each other. Even though they argue, it's obvious that they care a lot for each other. The Rise turtles could be jerks too such as Donnie giving his brothers gifts to change them with one being an electric collar. It doesn't actually bother me since it's mainly played for laughs but some Rise fans just completely ignore it.

Another criticism is that the characters never grew. They all had development, particularly Leo. The thing that annoys me about it though is that I can't think of any growth for the Rise turtles other than their skills. They're all pretty much the same by the end of the show. I understand that there were only 2 seasons but it just seems to like an odd argument for making Rise seem better. I understand old fans criticising the 2012 show and new shows but, with Rise, it feels like new fans of TMNT reading up and watching clips of 2012 to look for faults that they can criticise to make Rise look better.
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Old 12-09-2020, 05:33 PM   #47
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I...really don't understand the sudden love people have for this show.

I've watched several episodes, including the multi-part finale. The show never seemed to outgrow its "LOL RANDOM" humor, and continually undercuts scenes with nonsense that's meant to be funny, and characters making wacky faces. Yes, they added in Shredder and other characters from the other incarnations, but I felt the show didn't do them any favors. Even as a strictly comedy, I feel like it failed on every front.

In the end, the show just felt like a Teen Titans Go rip-off with a coat of Ninja Turtles paint. People also seem to love the animation, and I see that cited as the main reason this show is a supposed masterpiece... Ugh. It's fluid, but it's used mostly to accentuate the characters making dumb expressions, so...I'm not really impressed with it.
Well this particular thread is partially about how it stacks up to Platinum Dunes and the Next Mutation. Which isn't exactly fair, the Platinum Dunes movies suffer from obvious reshoots and stories that make no sense, while Next Mutation is literally incomprehensible due to it's horrible sound design and editing.

It's not exactly fair to say Rise is bad because the humor undercut the drama and then shove it into the same category as the straight up unwatchable Next Mutation.

I don't "love" Rise, I just don't hate it or even really dislike it (I get the feeling few people get what I'm trying to convey about it). It's just not bad in the same demonstrable way that TNM, PD, FW or III is. It's certainly not the right direction for the TMNT franchise, not what I expect or want. But I can't really think of that many blatant animation errors, plotholes, bad pacing, poor sound editing or really that many flaws that would be flaws outside of TMNT.
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:14 PM   #48
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:51 PM   #49
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OK now that I've finally watched all of Rise properly, I have to say the show really grew on me.

It's still my least favorite of the four cartoons we had so far, but the show actually had some great eps as it progressed and some neat concepts. Like most people I had a complete turn around on Rise's Splinter, who like most I hated in his first few eps and then he turned out to be really well developed and one of the most likeable characters of the show. The finale really sold me on the series overall and really showed how much potential it had.

There were a lot of eps that were too silly for my tastes, and of course I wish it had been more action and less comedy focused, and the designs of the Turtles while not too bad could have been more traditional, it actually came across pretty well.

Powder you were right about this one. I quit watching Rise after the first 10 eps originally but now gave it a proper chance and watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 over the last week or so. Pretty fun show, if not my ideal series. I hope the movie brings in Krang or the Utroms finally.
Glad to hear, Cubed. Happy to hear you, or any fan, for that matter, gave it a proper chance & found some things to enjoy.
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:48 AM   #50
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This is my first post! And I'll just chime in to say, I love all things TMNT.

I don't think the live action TMNT stuff (outside of the 90s films) ever worked very well, but I still enjoy them.
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Old 01-12-2021, 10:53 PM   #51
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I actually liked Platinum Dunes for the most part.

And Rise is okay.

I couldn't get through 3 episodes of Next Mutation without Phelous.
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