Do you think Casey is sort of... a loser?

[DrSpengler]

Casey Jones: Badass or Loser?

EDIT: When I initially made this post, it was just a point of discussion. But the more I thought about it the more I wanted to write about it.

So I wrote up this extended essay detailing my thoughts on Casey's character, at least in regards to his various character defects that would define him as a "loser" in the real world.

If you take the time to read it, let me know, do YOU think Casey qualifies as a "loser" given his various faults?

Personally, I think he is, indeed, rather pathetic in a lot of ways, but he's a loveable loser in his own way and still my favorite character.

[CyberCubed]

Yes, but he's a loveable loser.

He's the guy you'd expect to hang out at the Gym with, go to a bar, or just sit there watching TV in sweatpants and a ripped up shirt.

He's also very 80's and 90's, I remember guys used to look and act like Casey all the time back in those decades.

[DrSpengler]

Oh, he's a loveable loser, especially once he mellowed out and got over his drinking problem (though the Image series seemed to be trying to bring it back).

He's just sort of... depressing.

The Mirage series covers so many, many years and after a decade and a half its kind of sad to see that Casey never made anything of himself and still lives off his girlfriend/wife.

But then, maybe I'm being too judgmental?

Casey is clearly happy where he's at, I suppose, and his wife, daughter and friends don't seem to think any less of him for it. So who am I to judge...

[CyberCubed]

Casey is happy as long as April/Shadow are happy. That's pretty much shown in Vol. 4.

He's usually only depressed when something happens to them.

[discordiatookie]

That was a great read. Reckon I agree with most of it, exception being that you are comparing the TMNT to normal teenagers. Teenage they may be, but they are also trained ninjas, and hardly comparable to your run of the mill fifteen year old high school kid. That said however, he is still a man-child. Definitely. And yep, I still love him.

[Ninjinister]

He gets to pork April.

That puts him high on many-a fanboys' (and maybe some girls') lists.

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by discordiatookie

That was a great read. Reckon I agree with most of it, exception being that you are comparing the TMNT to normal teenagers. Teenage they may be, but they are also trained ninjas, and hardly comparable to your run of the mill fifteen year old high school kid. That said however, he is still a man-child. Definitely. And yep, I still love him.

This is something I noticed as well.

Also, comparing Casey to a normal person and trying to treat him by real life standards is like treating Big Daddy and Hit Girl from Kick-Ass as if they were real people instead of purposefully over-the-top counterparts to the more realistically-grounded Kick-Ass (i.e. the guy the writer is trying to get you to identify with).

Of course, toward the end you make it pretty apparent that you realize that you're comparing an over-the-top counterpart to some already outrageous characters to realistic standards of living and socializing and that comics are a lot less fun if you view comics through that lens too much.

Using the same lens, Batman is a loser because he feels compelled to constantly use generations of family resources to beat up random criminals because of a traumatic event that happened to him around the time he was 8 or 10 years old. He's also a loser because that traumatic event is what keeps him from finding a more permanent solution for taking care of guys like the Joker who will always come back and will always find ways to kill more people than Batman can ever save on his own.

Of course, if the Joker were permanently dealt with through some sort of brain damage, paralyzing injury, coma, or death or if Bruce Wayne did grow up into someone much more well-adjusted to life without parents and used his family resources to fight police corruption and offer better psychiatric services to the criminally insane then Batman would be a much more boring comic because he would be living by real social standards instead of doing something that's cool in comics: wear spandex and punch people because he misses his parents.

I'm sure many Turtles characters would look really bad under a realistic social lens: Splinter's drive for vengeance, Leo's perfectionism, Raph's temper, Don's reclusive and studious nature, and Mike's... well, Mike's the closest to "normal" in the comics, in my opinion. I'm sure someone could come up with something, though.

Huh! On that note, it would be interesting if you wrote more of these things where you look at various TMNT characters as if they were to be treated realistically and were held to normal social standards.

[TristanHuwJones]

Hey Spengs! I just had a read of your blog/essay post and with the discussion going on here, I figured now might be the best time to drop this...

When I was writing "Hun", there was a colossal amount of backstory involved. Every single key point in Casey's life leading up to the Raphael special was looked at, particularly the early childhood, family history, and teen years. The whole thing was mapped out alongside the history of Hunter Mason and the Purple Dragons because their lives would intertwine pretty intensely, culminating in the opening fight of #56.

As Hun was being written, the Casey-centric follow-up was also planned as either a two part mini or a subsequent "Tale". Basically what was to happen, was Casey goes into hiding (as we see in the the Tales stories after #56) back in NH, where he reassesses EVERYTHING, his life, the Turtles, April, Shadow. Everything. It reaches the point where he doesn't even want Splinter in the farmhouse. Eventually he concedes and allows Splinter to teach him the way he taught Don in the cave. The whole time this is happening, we are told the history of the fued between Hun and Casey, and we also find out that he was good student -- not great, but good (always tried his hardest) -- and that he wanted to be a cop or a lawyer, someone who could do something about the crime problems in his area (idealistic sure, but he's a young teen here remember), but mainly to do something to divorce himself from some disturbing areas of the Jones' family history (that tie very strongly to Hun and the Purple Dragons -- far stronger than "protection money" but not quite blood related). Unfortunately, all that is robbed from him when Hun puts him in a coma. All the potential = gone. He has to relearn a lot of really basic stuff, and any hope of becoming a cop or lawyer or anything like that is, in his mind, gone, hence why he identifies with action heroes and adopts vigilantism (again, something to do with his old man).

Some might say I'm putting too much into it, but the bottom line is, I wanted to keep Casey as this really nice dude deep down, but also show that there's some very solid reasoning behind why he is the way he is and why he does what he does, and it's far more tragic than someone just getting all hyped up over Stallone movies.

[jaymq]

^ I suppose I can't save myself from sounding like a fangirl, but the more I hear about your Tales idea, the more I wanna kick someone 'cause of the TMNT sale. =/ Your ideas sound totally kickass and the stories I've read so far are very well executed (and I re-read all the Tales issues over the weekend since I got answer about Whitmire and Miller. Just sayin' xD).

Why this is relevant? I've only been ever fond of Casey in the first movie, he felt more... normal I suppose there than the rest of the series where it often felt he was a lunatic and partially comic relief. By sounds of it, you had pretty big plans and I would of ended up enjoying Mirage Casey a lot more if your stuff got to print.

[discordiatookie]

Another observation, and correct me if i'm wrong: I don't ever recall anything about Casey living at home when he first meets the turtles. I always seen it as, during CAW, his wife has just died, he has a newborn, and he has nowhere else to go other than back home to his ma's. And that's how he ends up living there. But before that, there's nothing that I recall mentioning that he was living there when we first meet him.

[Candy Kappa]

did he play baseball, til he got injuried like in the movie? can't recall

[jaymq]

Originally Posted by Kiwamu The Kappa

did he play baseball, til he got injuried like in the movie? can't recall

Hockey. And not that I've seen, but I could have just missed it.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by discordiatookie

Another observation, and correct me if i'm wrong: I don't ever recall anything about Casey living at home when he first meets the turtles. I always seen it as, during CAW, his wife has just died, he has a newborn, and he has nowhere else to go other than back home to his ma's. And that's how he ends up living there. But before that, there's nothing that I recall mentioning that he was living there when we first meet him.

This is correct. He has his own apartment when we first see him, but it's a total ****-hole.

[Nelson]

Is Casey a loser? Hmm, how to say this... I sometimes feel like he could fit well in the cast of the movie Airheads...

Great article, DrSpengler. I think you should publish a book, an unauthorized collection of TMNT articles.